Incident at London Bridge

[Dr The Singh]

10 minutes ago, hejammy said:

So places like Dubai, Malaysia, most of Turkey etc are not evolved. You forget that Saudi, Iraq etc are not the only "Islamic countries" 

 

Militant Sikhs have engaged in terrorist killings and other violent campaigns "to back their demand for the creation of an independent country - which they call Khalistan - in Punjab" In 1984, Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi ordered troops to attack these radical Sikhs at the Golden Temple in the city of Amritsar, Sikhism's holiest shrine. The siege resulted in an estimated 1500 deaths, sparked protests and riots around the world with many more killings, and four months later led to the assassination of Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguard. 

 

I don't want to get into a religious debate with you. All I am trying to say is that most religions have their bad sides and good sides. Hot topic is "Islam" and its small faction of the bad side. In the 80s it was the catholics and the IRA. You know as well as I that India has had its fair share of fighting in the name of religion. Muslims in the 80s and 90s were just seen as "one of the Asians" 

 

What has Khalistan got to do with Guru Granth Sahib?  Your scraping g the barrel there.  Sikh militancy during that era had nothing to do with religion, but like Palestine, the right to exist.  So tell me please what is controversial I. The GGG, or what in the Granth Sahib caused the Khalistan movement????  Answer: Nothing.   

 

If you read history of India, Sikhs ruled before the Brits, this is about territory and rights, and India's aims to exterminate Sikhs.

 

If you say to me India is evolved, I would say no...having high buildings, so called democratic process, and internet, does not make you evolved.  It's about the thinking of the common and the equal treatment of the whole nation, and many of those nations, you have written have alot of problems with minorities and human rights

[yorkie1999]

56 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

 

Extremists get just as much opposition from within their own communities as they do from any of us.

I've never given an extremist hate preacher any opposition and I don't know any non Muslim person who has in fact I bet there's hardly any opposition outside their own community. Wonder why that is.

[LiberalFox]

I'm not actually sure how much terrorism is down to extremism. It's quite possible we are focusing too much on extremism but it's difficult to say.

[hejammy]

13 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

What has Khalistan got to do with Guru Granth Sahib?  Your scraping g the barrel there.  Sikh militancy during that era had nothing to do with religion, but like Palestine, the right to exist.  So tell me please what is controversial I. The GGG, or what in the Granth Sahib caused the Khalistan movement????  Answer: Nothing.   

 

If you read history of India, Sikhs ruled before the Brits, this is about territory and rights, and India's aims to exterminate Sikhs.

 

If you say to me India is evolved, I would say no...having high buildings, so called democratic process, and internet, does not make you evolved.  It's about the thinking of the common and the equal treatment of the whole nation, and many of those nations, you have written have alot of problems with minorities and human rights

This exactly. It's about territory and defending it. (which is what a lot of these recent terrorists are also allegedly fighting for) 

 

Don't forget that sikhism also has its version of "jihad" - Dharam Yudh, which is mentioned in the holy book. Again I didnt want to get into a religious debate. It was simply to say that other regions have their good side and a minority bad side. 

 

With regards to evolved nations, are you under some illusion that England, USA and Europe do not have issues with minorities and human rights? It's all relative. You chose what you want to hear and believe because it's what you've "heard". You accuse others all the time of not reading or researching things however this time Mr Singh I think you should take a leaf out of your own book sir. 

 

Also have you ever been to Dubai? The Arabs are the minority! Doubt they will have issues with themselves..... 

[Buce]

5 hours ago, GaelicFox said:

Time to round up every jihadist on a watch list 

 

and send them to a remote island with NO way off and location unknown 

 

How would we know where to send them?

 

4 hours ago, Russell sprout said:

Go and support labour and Corbyn pal,you left wing loyalty is cringe

 

4 hours ago, Russell sprout said:

Coming from you rincewind and previous debates we've had and find that laughable,

ive learned from befour where your loyalties lye

 

I honestly didn't realise people as thick as you existed.

 

Who switches on your iPad for you?

 

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

I'll give you an example. That preacher that stands at the clock tower with his PA system handing out the Koran to anyone who listens slap bang in the middle of Leicester. What's he preaching? It doesn't sound like love your fellow man to me.

 

So, you don't understand the language he's speaking but you know it's not about love to your fellow man?

 

I guess you must have used English - Muslim on Google Translate?

[yorkie1999]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

How would we know where to send them?

 

 

 

I honestly didn't realise people as thick as you existed.

 

Who switches on your iPad for you?

 

 

So, you don't understand the language he's speaking but you know it's not about love to your fellow man?

 

I guess you must have used English - Muslim on Google Translate?

Anyone who grits their teeth while their talking is a very angry man. Cocky. Send them to where they are happiest. Syria. No chicken mc Donald's there you know.

[Nalis]

The immediate point scoring from the left, right and centre today, particularly after May's statement and deciphering of it, does not sit comfortably with me. Bit disrespectful to those who have died including their parents/kids/friends,etc.

[Fox92]

32 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

 

Fvcking terrible thing to happen, nobody should arbitrarily lose their life just because some cvnts have a problem with a way of life associated with the country they live in.  Thoughts go out to all the victims and those close to them.

 

That said I'd now like everybody to take a second to reflect on the Three Lions looking twats who spent last night driving up a kerb then running around with fake suicide vests and embarrassingly low-grade weaponry, continuing the recent trend of terrorists who look like clueless morons with crap resources because our counter terrorist chaps are actually already doing quite a good job when it comes to preventing them from getting their hands on the skills/tools/ingredients necessary for more successful acts of fear and destruction.  Now have a good laugh at the three car wankers.

 

Hopefully you all feel a bit better now.

 

If you get scared and start letting them get to you all that does is give the government an excuse to strip you of your freedoms in the name of safety ie. the Chinese internet proposals.  I refuse to lose my free porn just because some people don't understand that literally anybody with functioning motor skills can buy a knife and drive onto a pavement.

While I do agree with that and where you're coming from, I think it's very different for us as we are not directly involved. I cannot imagine the families of these victims will fancy a good laugh.

 

Low grade weaponry can't be prevented can it. Nobody can stop a vehicle running innocent people over. We have bollards for pedestrianized areas - ie in City Center - but nobody can stop a lunatic and his mates cruising down the pavement of a very busy street - even busier than London Bridge/Westminster Bridge, look at places like Oxford Street.

 

But yeah, our security services are marvelous. May said earlier that they have prevented 5 attacks - I'm not sure in what timescale but it's still impressive.

[Dr The Singh]

17 minutes ago, hejammy said:

This exactly. It's about territory and defending it. (which is what a lot of these recent terrorists are also allegedly fighting for) 

 

Don't forget that sikhism also has its version of "jihad" - Dharam Yudh, which is mentioned in the holy book. Again I didnt want to get into a religious debate. It was simply to say that other regions have their good side and a minority bad side. 

 

With regards to evolved nations, are you under some illusion that England, USA and Europe do not have issues with minorities and human rights? It's all relative. You chose what you want to hear and believe because it's what you've "heard". You accuse others all the time of not reading or researching things however this time Mr Singh I think you should take a leaf out of your own book sir. 

Bollocks, Britian isn't Muslim territory, that british guy didn't kill innocent children cus he was being persecuted for being british.  Don't compare a territorial war to one of extermination.

 

Dharam yudh is not in the Guru Granth sahib, so get your facts right.

 

The Dharam yudh statement relates to the 10th masters statement, which is a statement Jeremy Corbyn, refused to do with regards to nuclear arms:

 

'In oppressive situation, when all efforts to restore peace fails, it is right to draw the sword's

 

And the 10th Master says, call to arms should always be a last resort.

 

More importantly, 10th Master lived by this, never kept slaves, booty, or concumbines

 

Jihad in Islam is contreversial, cus the action s from were contreversial.  And it's translation in the quran

 

Your making this a Islam Sikh thing, answer the original point , is the quran contreversial, and to clarify you have proven jack shit with regards to GGS

 

Gobind Singh

[bovril]

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Anyone who grits their teeth while their talking is a very angry man. Cocky. Send them to where they are happiest. Syria. No chicken mc Donald's there you know.

Actually quite a few in Aleppo and Damascus.

Syria was probably the most liberal and progressive country in the M.E, maybe after Israel. They've suffered more than most, not sure they would appreciate us sending more of our home-grown cvnts.

[Sharpe's Fox]

30 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Actually, after re reading @Sharpe's Fox post I over reacted . I apologise to him too.

Don't know why I was making a political point I won't deny it.

[LiberalFox]

8 minutes ago, Nalis said:

The immediate point scoring from the left, right and centre today, particularly after May's statement and deciphering of it, does not sit comfortably with me. Bit disrespectful to those who have died including their parents/kids/friends,etc.

Don't you think the PM is responsible for most of this though?

[Dr The Singh]

20 minutes ago, hejammy said:

This exactly. It's about territory and defending it. (which is what a lot of these recent terrorists are also allegedly fighting for) 

 

Don't forget that sikhism also has its version of "jihad" - Dharam Yudh, which is mentioned in the holy book. Again I didnt want to get into a religious debate. It was simply to say that other regions have their good side and a minority bad side. 

 

With regards to evolved nations, are you under some illusion that England, USA and Europe do not have issues with minorities and human rights? It's all relative. You chose what you want to hear and believe because it's what you've "heard". You accuse others all the time of not reading or researching things however this time Mr Singh I think you should take a leaf out of your own book sir. 

 

Also have you ever been to Dubai? The Arabs are the minority! Doubt they will have issues with themselves..... 

Just to add jihad is holy war for muslims, Dharam yudh is applied to all faiths, many wars were faught to protect all faiths.  For different ways of thinking 

[steveherbe]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

I'll give you an example. That preacher that stands at the clock tower with his PA system handing out the Koran to anyone who listens slap bang in the middle of Leicester. What's he preaching? It doesn't sound like love your fellow man to me.

Then why dont the Leicester based lads deal with him - be a start at least

[LiberalFox]

3 minutes ago, steveherbe said:

Then why dont the Leicester based lads deal with him - be a start at least

 

He probably isn't preaching hate.

[steveherbe]

Just now, LiberalFox said:

 

He probably isn't preaching hate.

If he wears a Forest shirt, thats a good enough reason

[Rincewind]

From what I have heard of him although I have never stopped, something is played through loudspeakers in Islam and the bloke translates. There are banners above the stand stating that Islam is love. I ignore the same as I do the other bible bashes so no favouritism.

[Larry_LCFC]

50 bullets fired by 8 firearms officers. Sounds a lot but I guess its only an average of 6 each. Hope it hurt.

[yorkie1999]

12 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

 

He probably isn't preaching hate.

The point is about tolerance, whether he is preaching hate or love is irrelevant the fact is he's preaching something and everyone just walks by and tolerates him.

[hejammy]

23 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

Bollocks, Britian isn't Muslim territory, that british guy didn't kill innocent children cus he was being persecuted for being british.  Don't compare a territorial war to one of extermination.

 

Dharam yudh is not in the Guru Granth sahib, so get your facts right.

 

The Dharam yudh statement relates to the 10th masters statement, which is a statement Jeremy Corbyn, refused to do with regards to nuclear arms:

 

'In oppressive situation, when all efforts to restore peace fails, it is right to draw the sword's

 

And the 10th Master says, call to arms should always be a last resort.

 

More importantly, 10th Master lived by this, never kept slaves, booty, or concumbines

 

Jihad in Islam is contreversial, cus the action s from were contreversial.  And it's translation in the quran

 

Your making this a Islam Sikh thing, answer the original point , is the quran contreversial, and to clarify you have proven jack shit with regards to GGS

 

Gobind Singh

Calm down son, some may mistake you to be a bit of a fundamentalist. Also as you know the Quran is written in quranic Arabic, so which translation are you using? Google translate might not be as effective I reckon. If you read my first post on this point, I don't want to make this an Islam Sikh thing, I said I didn't want to get into a religious debate. You poked and kept on poking. Funny how defensive you get when someone even mentions sikhism. Didn't know people couldn't defend Islam everytime you defame it. By the way to correct you, the Quran doesn't have actions, it's the misguided people who have the wahabi translation of it that are controversial (evil) 

 

With regards to masters and slaves etc, you do know that they both lived in different times? Keeping slaves was even normal in the UK and USA early last century, nevermind 1400 years ago 

[separator]

3 minutes ago, Larry_LCFC said:

50 bullets fired by 8 firearms officers. Sounds a lot but I guess its only an average of 6 each. Hope it hurt.

With the scum bags wearing fake suicide vests the police had no choice I guess, shoot to kill until you're sure their dead. Impressive response from the police, all over in 8 minutes.

[hejammy]

30 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

Bollocks, Britian isn't Muslim territory, that british guy didn't kill innocent children cus he was being persecuted for being british.  Don't compare a territorial war to one of extermination.

 

Dharam yudh is not in the Guru Granth sahib, so get your facts right.

 

The Dharam yudh statement relates to the 10th masters statement, which is a statement Jeremy Corbyn, refused to do with regards to nuclear arms:

 

'In oppressive situation, when all efforts to restore peace fails, it is right to draw the sword's

 

And the 10th Master says, call to arms should always be a last resort.

 

More importantly, 10th Master lived by this, never kept slaves, booty, or concumbines

 

Jihad in Islam is contreversial, cus the action s from were contreversial.  And it's translation in the quran

 

Your making this a Islam Sikh thing, answer the original point , is the quran contreversial, and to clarify you have proven jack shit with regards to GGS

 

Gobind Singh

Ermmmmm he was from a Libyan background and had issues allegedly for the invasion of Libya..... 

[LiberalFox]

9 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

The point is about tolerance, whether he is preaching hate or love is irrelevant the fact is he's preaching something and everyone just walks by and tolerates him.

Isn't that a good thing though? Freedom of speech and all that. There's an argument for banning people from preaching as it's a bit of a public nuisance but I don't think it's right to do it as a reaction to a bombing.

 

I'll also say that he's almost certainly known to the authorities (not as a suspect) but he'll be known about and if he's been preaching there a while I'd be 99.9% certain he's not a threat.

[Dr The Singh]

2 minutes ago, hejammy said:

Ermmmmm he was from a Libyan background and had issues allegedly for the invasion of Libya..... 

Stop making excuses, I'm from a punjabi background but I'm still British, my loyalties lie with Britain.  

 

So using your analogy,.maybe I should catch a flight to India and start killing Indians, does that make it right?

[Larry_LCFC]

6 minutes ago, separator said:

With the scum bags wearing fake suicide vests the police had no choice I guess, shoot to kill until you're sure their dead. Impressive response from the police, all over in 8 minutes.

With the resources they have in central London, it is to be expected really. They had the SAS landing on the bridge and an apache overhead within a very short time.

What concerns me is when this inevitably happens in an ordinary town on a Saturday night. Potential to kill dozens with a single armed unit 30 minutes away?