A New Political Movement or Uprising?

[Izzy]

7 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

there's already so many people in poverty in this country and a genuine guy like corbyn seems to be the only one offering (perhaps a fantasy) route out of it. that's the whole point of the thread. 

 

You're absolutely right.

 

It is a fantasy...

[LiberalFox]

9 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Seeing how it was just me and Scouse saying we'd live in Cuba (no mention of Greece you fake newser) I can attest that at least 50% of it was in jest.  Too dry for you perhaps?

 

And @ScouseFox is a notorious idiot child so it doesn't really matter if he means it or not.

Yeah probably over reacted. Been seeing some usually rational people advocating the government just seizing property to house the poor which is a bit nuts to be honest. Would genuinely annoy me if after suffering through a crap Tory government we elect a loony left government that causes more of a mess. Not aiming that at anyone here by the way.  

[DJ Barry Hammond]

12 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

You're absolutely right.

 

It is a fantasy...

It may be a fantasy... but the alternative manifesto didn't see to offer any hope at all (something Grant Shapps said about it and I was disgusted because I never thought I'd end up agreeing with this plonker!)

[DJ Barry Hammond]

 

Stuff like this will only raise tensions further. I really don't understand why someone in his position wouldn't think, I can think this privately but I shouldn't say this on a public platform.

 

It's since been deleted, but he's been getting some mild abuse for it all the same. 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

You're absolutely right.

 

It is a fantasy...

But is it? The only argument I can see against Labour atm is this idea of fantasy economics. But why do you believe that and not the alternative?

[LiberalFox]

4 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Stuff like this will only raise tensions further. I really don't understand why someone in his position wouldn't think, I can think this privately but I shouldn't say this on a public platform.

 

It's since been deleted, but he's been getting some mild abuse for it all the same. 

A lot of councilors are arrogant c**ts, really think local government needs a wholesale reform. 

[bovril]

Little shack by the sea in Greece sounds great imo.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Just now, LiberalFox said:

A lot of councilors are arrogant c**ts, really think local government needs a wholesale reform. 

 

Well I've bombarded him with some guilt tripping responses I think... but then I bothered to look down through his recent posts and it's littered with many more crass comments. 

 

It just goes to show, people don't really understand how powerful emotions, espeically fuelled by grief can be and this is a situation where you have mass grief and a very visual reminder on show 24/7. 

 

This grief has been left unattended for a couple of days, so naturally the disbelief goes and is replaced by the need for answers and anger. 

[Buce]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

Explain to me what the point was? If Buce was only joking then I apologise

 

I was responding to Matt saying that nobody but the leaders benefit from revolution.  The lives of the Cuban people were improved greatly, even in the face of Western embargoes. 

 

You resplied with your all-too-familiar straw man response. 

 

1 hour ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

You say that, but it's not the same in other big European countries. German, Italy, France, Spain, Sweden, Denmark, even Greece to some extent have sold their sole.

 

Cobblers. 

[Lovejoy]

2 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Well I believe in business in this country there used to be a pride in "a job done well" and that this was a shame important as making profit - possibly because these were family business with their names above the door, so quality mattered and that reflected in employment conditions.

 

These days, it's all about profit. People no the price of everything but the value of nothing. We're open all hours, work all hours, leaving ourselves no time to play. It's all disjointed. 

 

I accept the 9-5 has gone, but we need to move to position where 30-35 hours in a week can comfortably fund someone somewhere to live, food and a bit of enjoyment.  

And create a culture of minimum standards? Maybe working in London has changed my outlook, but personally, I work longer than "9-5" because I firmly believe that hard work is rewarded with success. If people aren't incentivised, standards will slip even further than you've mentioned because people can getaway with working less.

 

I work for a small business and how we compete against much larger corporations is by setting higher standards. This means working longer and harder, but equally, we pay better and can offer a lot more than our larger competitors. "A job well done" is how we survive though.

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

Little shack by the sea in Greece sounds great imo.

Yeah me too, I've just come back from there. Would have stayed if I could've.

[bovril]

Just now, Strokes said:

Yeah me too, I've just come back from there. Would have stayed if I could've.

Where were you?

[Benguin]

fortunately it's predominately the youth so not a big worry. Does need killing quickly though, fed up of people who want to live in a capitalist system but not have a divide, it's moronic.

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, bovril said:

Where were you?

Kalethia in Rhodes, stunning place.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

18 minutes ago, Lovejoy said:

And create a culture of minimum standards? Maybe working in London has changed my outlook, but personally, I work longer than "9-5" because I firmly believe that hard work is rewarded with success. If people aren't incentivised, standards will slip even further than you've mentioned because people can getaway with working less.

 

I work for a small business and how we compete against much larger corporations is by setting higher standards. This means working longer and harder, but equally, we pay better and can offer a lot more than our larger competitors. "A job well done" is how we survive though.

 

See this is another area that I ponder on whether we're mistaken.

 

Is working longer actually any better for us, does it make us any more productive? Would it not be better to concentrate efforts in shorter bursts with break periods rather than constantly push, push, push till destruction.

 

I can speak personally from being in a work environment where we were constantly behind, my natural instinct would be to plough myself into it for long periods day in day out (40-45 hour weeks), which then had negative effects on my diet (no time to eat well), private life and my mental health. 

 

It could be argued that the notion this extra work might get you somewhere is actually an inbuilt way for employers to take advantage of people's better and giving nature.

 

[lgfualol]

RIOOOTTTT

[Thracian]

2 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Back to the initial topic... based on pictures I'm seeing now, something is growing here, something bigger is developing.

 

Some people have suggested faux outrage, yet I can feel the very real anger and frustration growing in myself (might have noticed in my posts).

 

A big part of this is because I can relate to ending up in a position of being completely helpless and dependent on the state and being confronted with incompetence, inaction and people who can only respond by following protocol regardless of how unhelpful that might be to a personal situation.

 

Yet I also can't even begin to crompehend how much worse these people's situations are given the circumstances and yet despite the obvious need for urgent practical action, you have people in senior positions just sticking their heads in the sand, looking the other way - which only heightens the feeling of divisions between classes of our society.

 

Its just horrible. It's inhuman. 

There are factions in the UK that want revolution and others that would opportunistically seek to benefit from it. There's nothing new in that comment  - you reap what you sow - but if not now then the time is coming soon. As I said it would, long ago.  

 

Sometimes it seems there's a part pre-ordained cosmic game going on where some things are just made inevitable - a bit like own goals really.

 

    

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

But is it? The only argument I can see against Labour atm is this idea of fantasy economics. But why do you believe that and not the alternative?

Because we've seen it before. We've seen the state of British rail, we've seen the tens of thousands of working days lost because people fancied a strike, we've seen inflation boom out of all control and people with mortgages suffer. I grew up poor as shit during a labour government, we could barely put food on the table, as soon as I turned 16 I had to go out and get a job to keep a roof over our heads. 

 

Now I've finally made something of myself and I'm ready to start my own family, you'll have to drag me kicking and screaming back to another labour government. 

[Guest]

Just now, Innovindil said:

Because we've seen it before. We've seen the state of British rail, we've seen the tens of thousands of working days lost because people fancied a strike, we've seen inflation boom out of all control and people with mortgages suffer. I grew up poor as shit during a labour government, we could barely put food on the table, as soon as I turned 16 I had to go out and get a job to keep a roof over our heads. 

 

Now I've finally made something of myself and I'm ready to start my own family, you'll have to drag me kicking and screaming back to another labour government. 

Look, I'm not about to try to claim Labour made no mistakes at that point but it always seems to be forgotten that they inherited an absolute mess in 1974.

 

The 1970s were a mess on both sides. Under a Tory government, between 1970 and 1974 a state of emergency was declared on no fewer than 5 separate occasions (a postwar record), we had the miner's strikes of the early 1970s, the 3 day week and commercial electricity restrictions, as well as rapidly growing unemployment. As unemployment exceeded 1 million in 1971, they simultaneously cut taxes and increased public expenditure and then recoiled at the resulting inflation and the crises that followed. 

 

During the Labour years in the second half of the decade, there is evidence that, although a refusal to immediately reduce public expenditure is now considered reckless, living standards were increasing. Public spending was cut by Callaghan prior to Thatcher coming into power and economic indicators were improving in 1978. As it happened, this progress was drowned out by the vivid images of bin bags lining the streets and coffins piled up awaiting burial that was to follow over the Winter of Discontent. It should, however, be remembered that the strikes were initially called in reaction to Callaghan’s refusal to remove a 5% pay rise limit in a bid to further curb inflation.

 

Whilst I have obviously been selective with the facts I've utilised here, I'm not arguing that Labour was great and the Tories bad, rather that the narrative that Labour caused massive problems is not reflective of reality. It seems that Labour is seen extremely harshly whereas the Tories appear to escape their history from the early 1970s much more easily.

 

Just something to muse over. 

[Thracian]

1 hour ago, LiberalFox said:

A lot of councilors are arrogant c**ts, really think local government needs a wholesale reform. 

Couldn't agree more. I don't really believe in party politics at all. It makes hypocrites of everyone over time.  The latest political options were appalling.

As for the young it's like they're listening to the Pied Piper without knowing where it will lead - and that in itself is a testimony to my use of the word appalling in relation to the options. 

 

The situation in Britain today is akin to hound dogs sensing a kill and clearly relishing it. But I see a country so evenly divided it's reflective of pathetic, unseeing politics and successive mistakes made over decades. 

 

Some political comments I've read these last 18 months have been as shameful as they've been misguided but all painted a picture of people so clearly unfit to lead a pipe band never mind a country, or councilors supposedly serving that country. 

 

And believe me, the arrogance you mention is in every main party and at all sorts of levels.          

 

I don't believe Corbyn's a leader, more a cunning, manipulative opportunist but then I did believe Mrs May would shine quite brightly in the top job rather than being singularly incapable and unwilling to stand her ground and ram the words of the British Broadcasting Co-operative back down their microphones by showing sufficient empathy with, sympathy for and trust in the electorate to construct an inspired manifesto and invite people to embrace the journey.

 

Instead so much of what she's said has sounded flat as a cracked bell and it's gone down with the young, like a limp dick for a nympho. I wished she'd quit after the election but accept there may be strategic considerations afoot. 

 

They say commeth the hour, commeth the man but surely the nation has better than Corbyn. Someone at least who will lead for everyone and doesn't need to disguise his inner feelings with an air of considered tranquility. Corbyn is a rabble rouser and as passionate a class warrior as you're likely to see. Grin and Blair It had his teethy smile that the women liked so much - but left so many dead, dying and broken in his wake.

 

I've no persuasion to offer. I just despair. I felt so poorly represented - and that shouldn't be the case for anyone really. There should at least be someone we can admire to vote for, someone who's shown they can act for the better. Not people more two-faced than a theatrie sign.               

[IOWFOX]

2 hours ago, toddybad said:

But is it? The only argument I can see against Labour atm is this idea of fantasy economics. But why do you believe that and not the alternative?

Fantasy economics, yet out of the 2 which one was actually costed? Oh yes, it was the communists that are going to ruin the economy 

[Thracian]

2 hours ago, toddybad said:

But is it? The only argument I can see against Labour atm is this idea of fantasy economics. But why do you believe that and not the alternative?

Give it time.

[IOWFOX]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I was responding to Matt saying that nobody but the leaders benefit from revolution.  The lives of the Cuban people were improved greatly, even in the face of Western embargoes. 

 

You resplied with your all-too-familiar straw man response. 

 

 

Cobblers. 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5649968

 

Could you imagine if america didnt like to overthrow peaceful secular regimes/ sanction the shit out of those that don't towe their bullshit.

[Kopfkino]

2 minutes ago, IOWFOX said:

Fantasy economics, yet out of the 2 which one was actually costed? Oh yes, it was the communists that are going to ruin the economy 

 

There's quite a difference between actually costed and writing some numbers in two columns that add up to the same. The IFS and IEA outed the costings as complete bullshit. That's not me saying the conservatives was any better or anything of the sort, but don't pretend writing some figures down was an actual costing.

[IOWFOX]

8 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

There's quite a difference between actually costed and writing some numbers in two columns that add up to the same. The IFS and IEA outed the costings as complete bullshit. That's not me saying the conservatives was any better or anything of the sort, but don't pretend writing some figures down was an actual costing.

So why then does everone act like the conservatives will be economically sound. Not putting costings looks far worse to me.