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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, bovril said:

Agree with this.

 

I think we've accepted that as a club we are now operating at a higher level than ever before, at least in most of our lifetimes. So while I do believe there have been some overreactions recently people are entitled to have higher expectations than even 2/3 years ago. 

 

Some of the "some of our fans don't deserve to support the club" stuff is at best tinpot and at worst extremely arrogant. 

It’s a shame though, in 10-20 years time we could and most likely will be looking at this as our golden age. They haven’t enjoyed it, what’s the point?

I don’t mind a bit of criticism or moaning but when the pitchforks come out, I just pity the posters doing it.

Edited by Strokes
  • Like 3
Posted
5 hours ago, Fox92 said:

And I wish people would stop telling me I'm less of a fan because I criticise.

 

I put a lot into going home and away and I like to think I say it as I see it. I'll say if we're good, I'll say if we're bad.

 

If people want to be happy regardless then fine but the whole "you're not a fan because you criticise" is just pathetic. 

I think there’s a huge difference between people who constructively criticise and offer opinion for example Iheanacho should be starting over Maddison, Perez needs dropping etc.

And the over the top we are shit, every player is shit, Rodgers out etc.

We all love the game and the club and will always offer different opinions, and that’s what the forum is for and it’s great.

Some of the comments in the match day threads are what really get me and I would call them less supporters the lol when we conceded or the I’m glad they scored. 
I’m generally on the look on the bright side and remember where we’ve come from and what we’re up against mentality. Some others are frustrated we are not kicking on - that’s okay and some great discussions had.

Posted
9 hours ago, Fox92 said:

And I wish people would stop telling me I'm less of a fan because I criticise.

I put a lot into going home and away and I like to think I say it as I see it. I'll say if we're good, I'll say if we're bad.

If people want to be happy regardless then fine but the whole "you're not a fan because you criticise" is just pathetic. 

Seeing as you replied to me, my point wasn't that you, or anyone else, are somehow less of a fan for criticising.

It's more the level of unbalanced vitriol which flies around when surely we should be (by and large) embracing this golden period and enjoying it more (as @Strokes pointed out).

There is a sense of entitlement from some and I'd like them to be a bit more measured rather than spitting out their dummies quite so often.

Maybe that's just me having a largely positive mindset.

  • Like 3
Posted (edited)

This word entitlement gets thrown about a bit, and has become somewhat of a derogatory label. I don't know whether there's confusion between it and people simply wanting to win, even wanting to win every single game.

 

Fans get pissed off when we loose and throw the toys out of the pram. It's what happens and I criticise nobody for it, many of us can get a bit unhinged every now and again. It's for the nearest and dearest to monitor and assess whether there are anger management issues!

 

Seriously though, we all respond in different ways to loosing. Cut some slack for those who are a little more volatile about it, it comes from a 'fan' place too.

 

Tbh, it bugs me me more when people have a pop at others for their dusplays of emotion. I'd rather people f and blinded on here than put their fist through the living room wall. And I speak as someone that has thrownn the TV remote down on the sofa in an overly aggressive manner! 

 

:)

 

 

Edited by drumbeat
there their
Posted
4 minutes ago, drumbeat said:

This word entitlement gets thrown about a bit, and has become somewhat of a derogatory label. I don't know whether there's confusion between it and people simply wanting to win, even wanting to win every single game.

 

Fans get pissed off when we loose and throw the toys out of the pram. It's what happens and I criticise nobody for it, many of us can get a bit unhinged every now and again. It's for the nearest and dearest to monitor and assess whether there are anger management issues!

 

Seriously though, we all respond in different ways to loosing. Cut some slack for those who are a little more volatile about it, it comes from a 'fan' place too.

 

Tbh, it bugs me me more when people have a pop at others for there dusplays of emotion. I'd rather people f and blinded on here than put their fist through the living room wall. And I speak as someone that has thrownn the TV remote down on the sofa in an overly aggressive manner! 

 

:)

I really respect where you're coming from, but what yoou call 'displays of emotion', I call it something less complimentary. It's a little bit like being asked to tolerate a thumping because 'it shows passion'.

 

Sorry - no. It's an excuse for unmitigated anger, and whilst I take the point that its better directed into text than putting a fist through the wall, better still would be if those environments were dealt with more effectively in the first place and not inflicted on the rest of us. Plenty of us work hard to control our output on here, why should the emotionally incontinent be spared?

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, drumbeat said:

This word entitlement gets thrown about a bit, and has become somewhat of a derogatory label. I don't know whether there's confusion between it and people simply wanting to win, even wanting to win every single game.

 

Fans get pissed off when we loose and throw the toys out of the pram. It's what happens and I criticise nobody for it, many of us can get a bit unhinged every now and again. It's for the nearest and dearest to monitor and assess whether there are anger management issues!

 

Seriously though, we all respond in different ways to loosing. Cut some slack for those who are a little more volatile about it, it comes from a 'fan' place too.

 

Tbh, it bugs me me more when people have a pop at others for there dusplays of emotion. I'd rather people f and blinded on here than put their fist through the living room wall. And I speak as someone that has thrownn the TV remote down on the sofa in an overly aggressive manner! 

 

:)

 

 

We all get a bit emotional and you’re right knee jerk reactions are different in everybody. It seems odd that you can recognise the need some have to vent and attack but not be as understanding of those that need too defend the players and staff.

Its the ability to recognise they are overreacting I find hard, some posters will double down on it and then almost revel in the next defeat (I told you so). It can appear that they enjoy defeats and poor performances more than victories.

The main forum is toxic right now, I avoid it straight after a match unless we win but often the discontented seem to carry on all week now.

There definitely are valid criticisms that need to be addressed but a bit of balance on both sides would be nice from time to time.

 

Do you not think everyone on here wants to win every game? I think the people that are entitled, are people that expect victories in almost every game. 

Edited by Strokes
  • Like 3
Posted
33 minutes ago, drumbeat said:

This word entitlement gets thrown about a bit, and has become somewhat of a derogatory label. I don't know whether there's confusion between it and people simply wanting to win, even wanting to win every single game.

 

Fans get pissed off when we loose and throw the toys out of the pram. It's what happens and I criticise nobody for it, many of us can get a bit unhinged every now and again. It's for the nearest and dearest to monitor and assess whether there are anger management issues!

 

Seriously though, we all respond in different ways to loosing. Cut some slack for those who are a little more volatile about it, it comes from a 'fan' place too.

 

Tbh, it bugs me me more when people have a pop at others for their dusplays of emotion. I'd rather people f and blinded on here than put their fist through the living room wall. And I speak as someone that has thrownn the TV remote down on the sofa in an overly aggressive manner! 

 

:)

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I really respect where you're coming from, but what yoou call 'displays of emotion', I call it something less complimentary. It's a little bit like being asked to tolerate a thumping because 'it shows passion'.

 

Sorry - no. It's an excuse for unmitigated anger, and whilst I take the point that its better directed into text than putting a fist through the wall, better still would be if those environments were dealt with more effectively in the first place and not inflicted on the rest of us. Plenty of us work hard to control our output on here, why should the emotionally incontinent be spared?

 

Remember this day, people.

 

The day @HighPeakFox demonstrated the greatest display of forebearance and restraint in the history of human conversation...

  • Haha 2
Posted
8 hours ago, Strokes said:

It’s a shame though, in 10-20 years time we could and most likely will be looking at this as our golden age. They haven’t enjoyed it, what’s the point?

I don’t mind a bit of criticism or moaning but when the pitchforks come out, I just pity the posters doing it.

 

4 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Seeing as you replied to me, my point wasn't that you, or anyone else, are somehow less of a fan for criticising.

It's more the level of unbalanced vitriol which flies around when surely we should be (by and large) embracing this golden period and enjoying it more (as @Strokes pointed out).

There is a sense of entitlement from some and I'd like them to be a bit more measured rather than spitting out their dummies quite so often.

Maybe that's just me having a largely positive mindset.

I might slate players and Rodgers now but that doesn't mean in 20 years I wouldn't have enjoyed it! Winning the FA Cup and Community Shield, finished top 6 twice, will live longer in the memory than individual games that we lost during a season.

 

I can this period but also be disappointed with performances (team/manager/player performances) and results. Every fanbase in the Country will be the same.

 

But I don't know what to expect. On one hand people say how good we are, "we're on of the best sides outside the top 4", but on the other hand I get slated for calling out Rodgers after a defeat. People say "this is the best squad we've ever had" but it's also the best resources we've ever had so I have to have some expectation because of that.

  • Like 2
Posted
7 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’m not saying they have to enjoy every second, but try to have a bit of perspective and just don’t revel in defeat because it makes what they said last week more valid.

This is on the money.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Strokes said:

Do you not think everyone on here wants to win every game? I think the people that are entitled, are people that expect victories in almost every game. 

Yes, I do think everyone wants to win every game.  We are fans after all. I can't speak for all those that might be labelled entitled but I don't think they expect to win every game, no. We all have moments of irrationality though, and in the cold light of day etc we calm down.

 

Quote

It seems odd that you can recognise the need some have to vent and attack but not be as understanding of those that need too defend the players and staff.

Not quite what I meant. Of course, defend the staff and players if you feel like you want to. I have no problem with that at all. I just see no need to attempt to shout down or belittle people with words such as entitled or meltdown. People have their opinions and express them in ways that I wouldn't personally, but that doesn't invalidate them. That said, I really don't want to spend much time justifying the behaviour of people who cannot control themselves.

 

I understand what @HighPeakFox says, and I agree. There is a time and place. Many (most?) are able to control themselves most of the time. Everybody is capable of exercising control (I'll leave aside being 'under the influence' as a separate question) and even those with the quickest of tempers manages it from time to time - talking to the mother-in-law, in a police station, up before the beak, etc etc etc. Yes, we are capable of doing it and, in an ideal world, we would. I personally would like it that way too, let's put it that way.

 

There is the question of context/where to consider. One doesn't expect that the language and behaviour in the kop (for instance) is going to be anything less than robust. In the family stand, clearly it will be (a little) more sanitised (but maybe not, having never been there!) I guess then it's a matter of what you expect the forum to be (and I happily leave it to the moderators to decide what is and what isn't acceptable) I see the forum as an extension of the kop, a place to let of steam (if needs be) and calm down. Of course I'd prefer that everyone could restrain themselves and exercise self-control... but I am but one voice with no right to dictate terms. Again, I leave that to the moderators.   

 

My own tactic with invective (or indeed downright negativity, however expressed) is to simply ignore it and make no attempt to engage with it. I don't let it cloud my day :) 

 

 

  

 

Edited by drumbeat
Posted
24 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

See the Millwall thread. Plenty on there quite happy for us to lose and get knocked out.

 

I’ve not seen it to be honest but it is a bit strange given our squad depth now. 
The only time I’d be happy for us too lose is if it ended up negatively affecting a team I dislike and our season was finished.

Posted
29 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

See the Millwall thread. Plenty on there quite happy for us to lose and get knocked out.

The entitlement thing (for me) is when some fans now think we’re too big time for the League Cup. 
Not long ago we were over the moon to win it and have a proud tradition in the competition.

Now some people are like ‘Meh’ whatever and I find that bizarre.
It might be the best chance we’ve got of winning silverware this season. 

 

I've just looked through that thread and there are, as usual, more people moaning about moaners than people moaning in the first place.

  • Like 4
Posted
22 minutes ago, Izzy said:

See the Millwall thread. Plenty on there quite happy for us to lose and get knocked out.

Ah, context again. Happy to loose on their terms - 'coulda won but didn't want to anyway' sort of thing. 

 

Quote

The entitlement thing (for me) is when some fans now think we’re too big time for the League Cup. 

 

I agree on that, and it is a shame. Some justify it as wanting to concentrate on 'bigger things' (league or European cups, whatever) We're not the only club to have that kind of 'support' but it is perhaps something new to us, a result of our recent successes.

 

Me, I want to win everything; every game, every competition - whatever it is. I accept we won't (know we wont) but want it nonetheless. I don't know where the line is as I can't help but be disappointed/p*ssed off when we lose. 

Posted
Just now, ealingfox said:

 

I've just looked through that thread and there are, as usual, more people moaning about moaners than people moaning in the first place.

Man, you get me! lol

Posted
3 hours ago, Strokes said:

Like I say, it’s fine a bit of criticism and moaning (even if I don’t always agree). It’s the prolonged over the top attacks that I get annoyed with and am trying to highlight. You seem to take it personally but I don’t think you are someone I would level the accusation at.
 

I lost my shit on Sunday after the second Brighton goal and switched the TV off for 5 minutes. I’m not saying they have to enjoy every second, but try to have a bit of perspective and just don’t revel in defeat because it makes what they said last week more valid.

I don't take it personally, nothing personal with you or @UpTheLeagueFox, it's only opinions on a forum but I'm just offering my opinion to disagree with the whole idea criticism is wrong. I'm not saying you think that but I do think people enjoy moaning at people moaning.

 

30 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

See the Millwall thread. Plenty on there quite happy for us to lose and get knocked out.

The entitlement thing (for me) is when some fans now think we’re too big time for the League Cup. 
Not long ago we were over the moon to win it and have a proud tradition in the competition.

Now some people are like ‘Meh’ whatever and I find that bizarre.
It might be the best chance we’ve got of winning silverware this season. 

Yeah that is weird. I would never turn my nose up at a trophy. However, I think this is a modern football / Premier League thing more than entitlement from our fans. People laugh the League Cup off now, teams don't take it serious, but I think that's because there's too much money in finishing top 4. Some fans, of every club, would rather finish top 4 than win a trohpy which is mad but I think that is more a general issue with football. Sport is all about winning trophies.

  • Like 1
Posted
3 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I don't take it personally, nothing personal with you or @UpTheLeagueFox, it's only opinions on a forum but I'm just offering my opinion to disagree with the whole idea criticism is wrong. I'm not saying you think that but I do think people enjoy moaning at people moaning.

Well let’s just agree to disagree then, it’s not worth going round in circles again.

 

3 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

 

Yeah that is weird. I would never turn my nose up at a trophy. However, I think this is a modern football / Premier League thing more than entitlement from our fans. People laugh the League Cup off now, teams don't take it serious, but I think that's because there's too much money in finishing top 4. Some fans, of every club, would rather finish top 4 than win a trohpy which is mad but I think that is more a general issue with football. Sport is all about winning trophies.

I’d love to see a champions league place attached to the FA cup to give it that real importance again.

The premier League should also put up some of the league TV money as prize money for the League cup.

 

1 million stripped from each place finish in the league and put through as prize money throughout the rounds.

  • Like 1
Posted
4 hours ago, Strokes said:

I’m not saying they have to enjoy every second, but try to have a bit of perspective and just don’t revel in defeat because it makes what they said last week more valid.

And whilst I'm on the subject (this should be in Grinds my Gears really) there's nothing more infuriating than the shouty negative moaner playbook technique, when answered or referred to with absolute accuracy, in a way they cannot 'yeah but' you back, just pretend you never said it in the first place, because it doesn't fit their narrow perspective, or it clangs all too loudly against their congnitive biases. It's much the same as fans who only ever see good or bad in a player because they've already folded their arms and made their mind up.

Posted
58 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I don't take it personally, nothing personal with you or @UpTheLeagueFox, it's only opinions on a forum but I'm just offering my opinion to disagree with the whole idea criticism is wrong.

This really gets right up my nose - who, anywhere, has said that criticism (and you can take it as read that I mean constructive criticism) is wrong? NOBODY is saying that - nobody that I've seen anyway, and anyone who does say that is ridiculous.

  • Like 3
Posted
7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Well of course they don't, just as nobody is out there explicitly stating its unconscionable to praise this week's chosen squad villain. 

 

It just gets implied with ridiculous grandstanding, virtue signalling or copious amounts of sarcasm and eye rolling. 

 

I've bemoaned this for years on here but really it's just what the Internet has become all over, its not unique to foxestalk. This crazy, partisan, entrenched splitting where the loudest folks have to take an extreme side and die on that hill. 

 

The behaviour of a lot of people in the Leicester City section of this forum absolutely is to come down on any and all criticism like it's the unreasonable moaning of "entitled" cry babies who don't appreciate how good they've got it because we used to be crap, don't you know (even though almost all of these posters were literally here when we were in League One just a few years ago and are all well aware.)

 

Just the same as the behaviour of countless others is to relentlessly lay in to every chosen scapegoat of the day (Maddison, Perez, etc) and scream and cry whenever they're in the team, completely ignoring the fact they were quite obviously key parts of a winning team a short time ago. And, equally, ignoring that there's other previous scapegoats trashed off as useless early doors who really just needed the right circumstances to come good (Vardy, Iheanacho, to a lesser extent Mendy, all having gone through this.)

 

And every time there's a behaviour like this there's a reaction and we end up with crazy, polarised, hyper vocal posters completely taking over the narrative until half the threads are about whether David Nugent, Richie Wellens, Paul Gallagher, Iain Hume, Ayoze Perez, James Maddison or Marc Albrighton are either single handedly responsible for holding us back and need to sold off (but obviously to a big club for like sixty million because they're trash to us but should still be super valuable to everyone else please) OR untouchable heroes, future hall of famers who should be given the key to the city and anyone who ever states they've had a shit game or don't fit in with the tactical approach is an ungrateful child who needs to learn to respect a club legend. 

 

It's completely exhausting. I don't mean to target this all specifically at you, BTW, you were just the most recent post when I started ranting. This stuff is just killing social media for me and I can't stand it. It feels lonelier and lonelier standing in the middle, even though I'm probably in a vast majority that feel the same way. 


A big ol post like that Finners deserves an equally lengthy reply ..  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. 

  • Haha 1
Posted
52 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

feels lonelier and lonelier standing in the middle, even though I'm probably in a vast majority that feel the same way. 

The answer to most questions is nearly always ‘somewhere in between’ or ‘a bit of both’ or ‘it depends.’ But that don’t get the clicks or the likes.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Well of course they don't, just as nobody is out there explicitly stating its unconscionable to praise this week's chosen squad villain. 

 

It just gets implied with ridiculous grandstanding, virtue signalling or copious amounts of sarcasm and eye rolling. 

 

I've bemoaned this for years on here but really it's just what the Internet has become all over, its not unique to foxestalk. This crazy, partisan, entrenched splitting where the loudest folks have to take an extreme side and die on that hill. 

 

The behaviour of a lot of people in the Leicester City section of this forum absolutely is to come down on any and all criticism like it's the unreasonable moaning of "entitled" cry babies who don't appreciate how good they've got it because we used to be crap, don't you know (even though almost all of these posters were literally here when we were in League One just a few years ago and are all well aware.)

 

Just the same as the behaviour of countless others is to relentlessly lay in to every chosen scapegoat of the day (Maddison, Perez, etc) and scream and cry whenever they're in the team, completely ignoring the fact they were quite obviously key parts of a winning team a short time ago. And, equally, ignoring that there's other previous scapegoats trashed off as useless early doors who really just needed the right circumstances to come good (Vardy, Iheanacho, to a lesser extent Mendy, all having gone through this.)

 

And every time there's a behaviour like this there's a reaction and we end up with crazy, polarised, hyper vocal posters completely taking over the narrative until half the threads are about whether David Nugent, Richie Wellens, Paul Gallagher, Iain Hume, Ayoze Perez, James Maddison or Marc Albrighton are either single handedly responsible for holding us back and need to sold off (but obviously to a big club for like sixty million because they're trash to us but should still be super valuable to everyone else please) OR untouchable heroes, future hall of famers who should be given the key to the city and anyone who ever states they've had a shit game or don't fit in with the tactical approach is an ungrateful child who needs to learn to respect a club legend. 

 

It's completely exhausting. I don't mean to target this all specifically at you, BTW, you were just the most recent post when I started ranting. This stuff is just killing social media for me and I can't stand it. It feels lonelier and lonelier standing in the middle, even though I'm probably in a vast majority that feel the same way. 

Totally understood. 

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