ZeGuy Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 1 hour ago, Fox Ulike said: Well I think you've answered your own question there. In a 4411 counter-attacking side he's amazing. In a diamond he's probably "decent". Why would he want to stay and be just a 'decent' player in a formation that doesn't play to his strengths? How much teams in the league play in a counter-attacking 4-4-1-1? None of the top 8 as far as I know.
SpacedX Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 1 minute ago, Rogstanley said: We were playing 352 in the great escape weren't we? As far as I can remember 442 didn't feature much under Pearson in the prem. It has been a successful system for us over the last few years though. Correct - beat me to it. The "great escape" was sprung in late March/early April, (Swansea at home as I recollect) by employing three centre-backs and exploiting the flank through the deployment of wing backs. A 3-5-2 and not dissimilar to O'Neil's favoured and fabled system. Prior to that Pearson had experimented with a variety of systems including a flat five at the back against Hull, a 4-3-3 and and dare I say, a mf diamond.
Happy Fox Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 We are most effective when we press the opposition. We are not a possession based team atm, I am sure Puel is aware of our strengths and weaknesses, we have the players to Challenge for a Top 7 place imo.
Webbo Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 I doubt there'll be much change for our game on Sunday. It might evolve over time but he'll want to see the players first.
sdb Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 No way can we play a diamond with our current options. Defensive full backs and a lack of quality CMs. It'd be a sign of real limitations if he went with it. 3-4-1-2 with wing backs on the other hand...
vanity Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 ----------------Vardy----Slimani ------------------------Gray ----------------Iborra -- Mahrez -----------------------Ndidi Chilwell-Dragovic-Morgan-Maguire
Redouane Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 In Nice he often played 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 along 4-2-3-1.. I think he will preserve the 4-4-2 here since that's what we've been using for a while
Fox Ulike Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 8 minutes ago, ZeGuy said: How much teams in the league play in a counter-attacking 4-4-1-1? None of the top 8 as far as I know. I don't think it matters. Formations are really just a simplification of tactics that are a useful shorthand rather than having to explain in detail every time how a team sets up. There isn't a great deal of difference between 4411 or a 4231. Players obviously move around the pitch during the game! The key is having players who excel in particular roles. We have loads of these at the moment. Vardy, Okasaki, Albrighton, Mahrez, Simpson, Fuchs. They were born to play the roles in our team. But I don't think that any of these players is going to excel in a diamond with attacking fullbacks. So are we going to replace half a team to accommodate a new manager's wishes? As somebody else has alluded to, in a diamond you're looking at Andy King getting in the team ahead of Mahrez? That just can't be right.
Fox Ulike Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 11 minutes ago, Redouane said: In Nice he often played 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 along 4-2-3-1.. I think he will preserve the 4-4-2 here since that's what we've been using for a while He probably will in the short term. Sooner or later though he's gonna want to change the side to suit his own philosophy.
ZeGuy Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 14 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: I don't think it matters. Formations are really just a simplification of tactics that are a useful shorthand rather than having to explain in detail every time how a team sets up. There isn't a great deal of difference between 4411 or a 4231. Players obviously move around the pitch during the game! The key is having players who excel in particular roles. We have loads of these at the moment. Vardy, Okasaki, Albrighton, Mahrez, Simpson, Fuchs. They were born to play the roles in our team. But I don't think that any of these players is going to excel in a diamond with attacking fullbacks. So are we going to replace half a team to accommodate a new manager's wishes? As somebody else has alluded to, in a diamond you're looking at Andy King getting in the team ahead of Mahrez? That just can't be right. The 4-4-2 benefits none of the new signings. Do you want see them rotting on the bench? Mahrez is wasted on the wing if you let him with no support and have him constantly tracking back. Which is happening since Kante left. Albrighton is having one of his worst spells since Ranieri was sacked. Simpson does a very good job in the back but can't cross to save his life. In this era it simply isn't good enough for a FB. Okazaki is inconsistent and we can't rely on him to make tho system work. We're leaking goals for fun and propose nothing forward. We have one of the worst pass completion of the league. It might not be a diamond (certainly not until January), but the actual system is dead. Unless you want to watch prehistoric football and see us flirting with relegation zone the whole season.
Babylon Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 2 hours ago, yorkie1999 said: A wing back is an attacking full back, in a diamond formation. Their first job is still defending, he's no defender.
Fox Ulike Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 2 minutes ago, ZeGuy said: The 4-4-2 benefits none of the new signings. Do you want see them rotting on the bench? Mahrez is wasted on the wing if you let him with no support and have him constantly tracking back. Which is happening since Kante left. Albrighton is having one of his worst spells since Ranieri was sacked. Simpson does a very good job in the back but can't cross to save his life. In this era it simply isn't good enough for a FB. Okazaki is inconsistent and we can't rely on him to make tho system work. We're leaking goals for fun and propose nothing forward. We have one of the worst pass completion of the league. It might not be a diamond (certainly not until January), but the actual system is dead. Unless you want to watch prehistoric football and see us flirting with relegation zone the whole season. The only teams to have beaten us since February are Arsenal, Everton, Man City, Man United, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea. And you've just axed half the side, and binned the system that won the Premier League. There's nothing more I can do for you.
ZeGuy Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 17 hours ago, pmcla26 said: I'm sorry but that just isn't true at all, the players were brought in by Shakespeare and his team to play the way Shakespeare wanted in the summer, which was the 4-4-2. You, just like every other LCFC fan, have hardly seen the new signings play in a 4-4-2, and you can't say it doesn't suit Maguire because he wouldn't be playing so well this season, Iborra looks more and more comfortable in our system with each game, and Iheanacho has hardly had a chance to date, but linked up well with Slimani on Tuesday (admittedly against a not very good side). But it's not about the formation as much as everyone makes out, look at our squad, 4-4-2 is the best formation for it, and I doubt Puel will change it until he gets a chance to get his ideas across and a few of his own players in. Silva played in a midfield three. Iborra played in a midfield three, he's too slow for a two and his pass options are limited in this system. Nacho played in a midfield three. Slim played in a midfield three. The latters, who aren't the Shinji type, clearly suffer from having to play out of position. Which means Okazaki has no replacement. Maguire became midfielder because no fvcking one wants to bring the ball forward in this damned 4-4-2. He would thrive in a three. Shall we continue? I'm convinced that the signings weren't made for Shakey, as he never was considered as a viable alternative, or this 4-4-2 because clearly any of the new signings played to their full strenght in any system that's not this fvcking 4-4-2.
ZeGuy Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 15 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: The only teams to have beaten us since February are Arsenal, Everton, Man City, Man United, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea. And you've just axed half the side, and binned the system that won the Premier League. There's nothing more I can do for you. Dodging every point, throwing a red herring (performances were still horrendous this season even agaisnt the mighty Huddersfield and Borunemouth) and then pulling out. Classic. You're clinging to the past and to a team which doesn't exist anymore. The motors went to Chelsea and the wheels fell off a while ago.
winteriscoming Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 Maguire morgan dragovic Albrighton chilwell Iborra ndidi mahrez Vardy okazki I like the look of this side and you can be flexible both attacking and defensively.
Motty Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 If a Diamond -----------------------------------------------------kasper------------------------------------------------------ Simmo---------------------wes---------------------------------------Harry--------------------------fuchs ------------------------------------------------------ibbora--------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------allbrighton------------------------------------mahrez------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------ndidi---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------nacho---------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------vards
the messenger Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 7 hours ago, Will1981 said: How well will our players fit into Puel's prefered Diamond formation? Schmeichel Simpson --- Morgan --- Maguire --- Chilwell Iborra Ndidi -------- King Mahrez Slimani --- Vardy Playing this narrow formation we will probably struggle to fit more than one of our wingers in the team at any one time but Mahrez may be given a little more freedom and less defensive responsibilities and we will be able to play with two out and out strikers. King ? Jesus!
norwichfox Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 33 minutes ago, the messenger said: King ? Jesus! I was thinking 'king hell.......
Great Boos Up Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 A diamond would mean we have to have two incredible CM's who would be pulled from pitch side to post. If he does try it this year he'll only try it once.
m4DD0gg Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 Morgan ain't got the brain power to handle anything that isn't 442
biggs Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 You don't just play a diamond because you have in the past....he'd be shooting himself in the foot trying this formation first match
volpeazzurro Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 7 hours ago, ZeGuy said: Silva played in a midfield three. Iborra played in a midfield three, he's too slow for a two and his pass options are limited in this system. Nacho played in a midfield three. Slim played in a midfield three. The latters aren't the Shinji type are clearly suffer from having to play out of position. Which means Okazaki has no replacement. Maguire became midfielder because no fvcking one wants to bring the ball forward in this damned 4-4-2. He would thrive in a three. Shall we continue? I'm convinced that the signings weren't made for Shakey, as he never was considered as a viable alternative, or this 4-4-2 because clearly any of the new signings played to their full strenght in any system that's not this fvcking 4-4-2. All spot on imo. Kante and Drinkwater are long gone. None of the current squad can replecate what they did. That doesn't mean that the current crop are bad, just suited to a different style. The fact that, as ZeGuy says, that they were successful players in different systems and roles at the clubs we bought them from and that Shakespeare wanted to change all of them to a system that doesn't suit them, says more about his lack of abilities as a manager and coach ie a one trick pony. That's why we've been poor and that quite rightly is why he's been sacked. The fact that the players wanted to play that system and he blindly continued with it also bears testimony to his weakness.
psychonaut Posted 26 October 2017 Posted 26 October 2017 I'd love to know what other formations/systems he's utilized throughout his management career. I mean he has had a nearly 20 year career and we're focusing on - was it half a season the diamond was employed? Maybe it was the entire season I'm not sure but regardless surely there's been other systems he's played on a much more regular basis throughout his career. At Nice a 442 similar to our own? Hopefully he'll look at our squad and utilise a system that suits our best players.
Heart-Shaped Fox Posted 27 October 2017 Posted 27 October 2017 Diamonds with all centre mids doesn't really work for me. No width and no cover along wings defensively either.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.