Puel - what about now

[NotTheMarketLeader]

14 hours ago, lifted*fox said:

That wasn't just a change in tactics tonight, that was a complete change in attitude and application. 

 

I was grinning from ear to ear for 90 minutes but on reflection it makes me sad that our players have actively chosen to not play with that intensity for several months. 

 

You can't blame Puel for that. That rests on the players. No matter what they've been asked to do there is no reason to not put in that level of effort every week. If they did we'd have won significantly more games. 

 

Players were moving into space, passing to each other, calling for the ball. We pressed high and hounded them for the ball AND we looked after it in possession. 

 

That wasn't a masterclass in tactics from Puel - that was the players trying and working hard which can be done in any system and we've not seen it from them for weeks and weeks. 

 

Says a lot but it's sad that we've not seen more of that this year. That kind of effort won us this league two years ago. 

What makes you think it’s the players that made the difference? 

 

According to you the players couldn’t be arsed all season (which is within his remit to sort out) showing he can’t do his job properly more than anything else.

 

So the players are responsible for all the shit and he’s responsible for one good performance in 3 months.

 

I think you will find he’s responsible for all of it, but I suspect last nights positive play is more him realising his own tactics are ****ing useless and he’s told them just to go and play, hence the turnaround.

 

That performance cannot be achieved passing it slowly out from the back, per the instructions of the manager after the first 5 games, at which point he decided to put his own ‘stamp’ on the side.

Edited 10 May 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[STUHILL]

2 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

Blame the guy when we're sh*t and when we're good don't praise him. You can't have it both ways. 

Blame the players when we're sh*t and when we're good criticise them for not trying before and praise Puel.. 

[TheStig]

Will this question be asked after every match from now on?

[Babylon]

16 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

That performance cannot be achieved passing it slowly out from the back, per the instructions of the manager after the first 5 games, at which point he decided to put his own ‘stamp’ on the side.

 

He has consistently for months said it's not what he's trying to achieve, it's the not the style he wants.

[coolhandfox]

Can't judge anything against a Arsenal side who let you play, they are one of the easiest side to play against as they are so open, almost a we'll score more then you approach.

 

Were we finish next year isn't going to be defined by how we do against Arsenal et al, it will be against the likes of W.Ham, B'mouth, Palace etc.

 

There is no easy way out of this, the owners either back him and spend a lot of money to reshape the squad, or get a manager in who can get the most out of the current squad. 

[STUHILL]

2 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Can't judge anything against a Arsenal side who let you play, they are one of the easiest side to play against as they are so open, almost a we'll score more then you approach.

 

Were we finish next year isn't going to be defined by how we do against Arsenal et al, it will be against the likes of W.Ham, B'mouth, Palace etc.

 

There is no easy way out of this, the owners either back him and spend a lot of money to reshape the squad, or get a manager in who can get the most out of the current squad. 

I'd prefer option C. 

 

New manager that owners back and spend lots of money to reshape the squad. 

[STUHILL]

10 minutes ago, Babylon said:

He has consistently for months said it's not what he's trying to achieve, it's the not the style he wants.

Then he is still failing at his job in my opinion. He can say all he wants but unless he gets the team playing well, then his time will rightly be cut short here. 

 

I want a Manager who says the right things but more importantly gets us results too. He has been failing miserably at the latter recently.

 

I think the differences in fan opinions come down to the time frame more than anything else.. i.e does he get the Summer or not. 

 

This summer is hugely important to us, and I wanted to see more signs of progress than we have so far. 

 

I admit that I have not 100% written him off, but I'd also feel a lot more optimistic going into next season with a new man at the helm.

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Then he is still failing at his job in my opinion. He can say all he wants but unless he gets the team playing well, then his time will rightly be cut short here. 

 

I want a Manager who says the right things but more importantly gets us results too. He has been failing miserably at the latter recently.

He has, but he had a shit load of bad luck in terms of injuries, suspensions etc. When all of those started to hit, we really tailed off. Before that, I could cope with the Stoke / Bournmouth performances short term as I didn't think we were too far away.

 

Also, the argument should really be that he can't implement the style he wants, rather than this IS the style he wants and people don't like it.

Edited 10 May 2018 by Babylon

[chapero82]

How can you change your mind after just one game? Just shows you how fickle our fans are! 

 

I have never been in and never will be unless he wins every game next season  

[Bob Weasel Fox]

38 minutes ago, TheStig said:

Will this question be asked after every match from now on?

I think the question should be asked after each quarter of a game

 

that way the really fickle can change their minds 3/4 times in one day

 

its all about options. 

[norwichfox]

really cant be arsed to vote

[Stan]

39 minutes ago, Babylon said:

He has consistently for months said it's not what he's trying to achieve, it's the not the style he wants.

It’s like talking to a brick wall with this lot.

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

He has, but he had a shit load of bad luck in terms of injuries, suspensions etc. When all of those started to hit, we really tailed off. Before that, I could cope with the Stoke / Bournmouth performances short term as I didn't think we were too far away.

 

Also, the argument should really be that he can't implement the style he wants, rather than this IS the style he wants and people don't like it.

 

Same reasons/excuses at Southampton. Perhaps he just struggles to get his style across or can't make it as successful week in week out, as he would like. 

 

He is an understudy of Wenger and I think that is part of his problem. He has a vision of how he wants his team to play, but seems incapable of being flexible or adapting to the players he has or the opposition he is up against. Wenger has often been criticised of that but obviously at a higher level and with players more capable. 

 

As I've said before, the only way I can see him being a success here, is if we invest heavily in the types of players he needs. That's still a big IF too and I just don't believe he has shown enough performances like last night, that merit him staying. He lost so much momentum and we have had a number of truly awful performances under him. 

 

Lets see what happens though, and I suspect it may come down to who is available out there, as there is no point changing for the sake of it. 

[Stan]

We could very well end up with 50 points this season, then sack the manager largely responsible for this outcome.

 

We can argue all we like about ‘style’ and 5 in 19 etc. but that would set a very high bar for the next manager. 

 

A question for the ‘Puel Out’ faction: What defines success next season?

[Stan]

40 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Can't judge anything against a Arsenal side who let you play, they are one of the easiest side to play against as they are so open, almost a we'll score more then you.

Yup.

 

We’ve had so much success against them in the last 24 years.

[Sharpe's Fox]

4 minutes ago, Stan said:

A question for the ‘Puel Out’ faction: What defines success next season?

Not paying 40 quid a time to watch absolute shite.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, chapero82 said:

How can you change your mind after just one game? Just shows you how fickle our fans are! 

 

I have never been in and never will be unless he wins every game next season  

By that logic you'd want us to sack every manger we've ever had after one season.

[STUHILL]

16 minutes ago, Stan said:

We could very well end up with 50 points this season, then sack the manager largely responsible for this outcome.

 

We can argue all we like about ‘style’ and 5 in 19 etc. but that would set a very high bar for the next manager. 

 

A question for the ‘Puel Out’ faction: What defines success next season?

I think we had the squad and finances available to be "best of the rest" this season, i.e 7th or even pushing Arsenal. 

 

I know it's not that simple to just have the best squad and expect the results to follow, but we really should have performed better in the last 20 games. 

 

As for next season, success for me would be clearing out the "old guard", replacing Wes, Simpson, Mahrez etc, with genuine top quality players (at a cost!) 

 

That in itself is a big task and after recent transfer windows, something we have to get right this summer! 

 

In terms of league position. I would be happy with a top 10 finish, as long as we had some consistency to our performances and clear signs of progression, with hopefully a fresh looking squad. The aim is to be a regular top 7 club but I'm not naive to think we should sack any manager who doesn't instantly get us there.

 

Most of all, I just want a manager I believe in that has an attachment to the players and fans, something that I think Puel severely lacks and will likely cause us problems as I believe it is doing now. 

Edited 10 May 2018 by STUHILL

[lgfualol]

Ian Holloway is available

[KJT]

I think Puel will make a great DOF, he is good at building structures and systems and scouting young players, then managing teams.

[coolhandfox]

47 minutes ago, Stan said:

Yup.

 

We’ve had so much success against them in the last 24 years.

Arsenal are only side among 92 English league clubs without a single point away from home since turn of year.....................

Edited 10 May 2018 by coolhandfox

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

What I don't want to see is Puel retained, and then sacked in the middle of next season. We've done it before, and frankly it hasn't worked. Either get rid of now, or back him all the way next season, unless it is a relegation issue.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

6 hours ago, Babylon said:

He has consistently for months said it's not what he's trying to achieve, it's the not the style he wants.

?

 

If thats the case, why has he not sorted it out and put what ‘he wants to do’ into practice then?

 

Let’s go with your claim; and it still doesn’t work for him.

Ie,  It’s what he says,  but doesn’t or can’t actually enforce.

 

I just don’t believe the other option:

 

Our players don’t want to play the attacking football he does which all of a sudden appeared last night.

 

 Yeah Mahrez, Gray, Vardy,

Ian want to play slow football with not many attacking moments. 

 

Which, I might add history says Puel doesn’t play that way whether it be here or Southampton 

Edited 10 May 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, NotTheMarketLeader said:

?

 

If thats the case, why has he not sorted it out and put what ‘he wants to do’ into practice then?

 

Let’s go with your claim; and it still doesn’t work for him.

Ie,  It’s what he says,  but doesn’t or can’t actually enforce.

 

The. I just don’t believe the other option:

 

Our players don’t want to play the attacking football he does which all of a sudden appeared last night.

 

 Yeah Mahrez, Gray, Vardy,

Ian want to play slow football with not many attacking moments. 

 

Which, I might add history says Puel doesn’t play that way whether it be here or Southampton 

Excellent post

[lee7]

It's amazing how many people have changed their mind based on one game  let's face it they can't all be first time voters so I'm assuming quite a lot of posters have changed their mind on the back of one win!