Guest SO1 Posted 27 April 2019 Share Posted 27 April 2019 2 hours ago, Ric Flair said: You raise some valid points but I've always felt in the last two seasons prior to this that we did well at U23 level due to being a physical team. The football they played was direct and in your face at best. Theres nothing wrong with that to an extent if that's the level of club we are or the style we adopt as a club but it isn't. Currently the academy seems ill fitting to the first team and the direction it is going with the new state of the art training ground and trying to be a top 6 club just doesn't compute. It's certainly surprising that coaches like Beaglehole and Peake remain in charge at their respective levels despite the sheer shift in ambition and outlook of the club. Admirable that either we remain loyal to them for their service or that we are lucky enough that they are good enough to be the brains behind an academy that is part of a club like ours. If they arent the best, then why settle for them when we are gunning for the best facilities in the country and we are trying to steal a march on the elite clubs? Marginal gains by having a phenomenal academy and pathway for the first team to improve. Sadly nobody seems able to take Party Steve to task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozartfox Posted 27 April 2019 Share Posted 27 April 2019 4 hours ago, Foxxed said: Will these root and branch changes involve the coaches that developed our England u21 youngsters or just Sauron? If it's just Beaglehole then by what metric will we judge his successor? Beaglehole supposedly only plays big lads. We're now playing Connor Tee, a player so small you could fit four of him in an ikea kitchen cabinet. Beaglehole also apparently only plays older players. We played two 18 year old and two 17 year olds last match. Beaglehole also refuses to loan players out. We successfully loaned out our two best defenders over Christmas. Maybe Beaglehole's successor will have a great record with players leaving the academy. But we obviously exclude Barnes, Hamza and Chilwell since they slipped by Beaglehole's sincere attempts to hinder their development by loaning them out (except for Hamza) something I suppose he tried to stop but was overrulled by... someone. I honestly don't have any strong opinions on Beaglehole but in the spirit of a balanced debate I feel obliged to defending him otherwise you could rename this thread to "**** you Beaglehole" and you would not notice the difference. I have no idea what any root and branch changes would entail. My main point was is has all gone stale of late. You would expect BR to want changes made, so all teams play in a similar way. People that have been in a job a long time struggle with fundamental changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal21212121 Posted 28 April 2019 Share Posted 28 April 2019 3 hours ago, mozartfox said: I have no idea what any root and branch changes would entail. My main point was is has all gone stale of late. You would expect BR to want changes made, so all teams play in a similar way. People that have been in a job a long time struggle with fundamental changes. At the start of the season the U23's were playing better football than the first team. They were playing an aggressive pressing 433 where each of the 3 in cm were pressing high up the pitch. Teams couldn't cope with the energy and aggression of Hamza, dewsbury-hall and lamine sherif. The performances and tactics at the start of the season were very Brendan Rodgers. So it's gone 'stale' of late, is that due to coaching or because the U23's best players are unavailable for selection. Having no Johnson, Knight, Hughes (through injury), Hamza, leaves the U23's understandably lacking. Lamine Sherif has been playing RB to cover for Darnell's loan move, I don't rate Pascanu as highly as the other CB options currently, we've gone from a dynamite midfield 3 to whoever we can cobble together alongside an overworked dewsbury-hall. People wanted these players out on loan (not suggesting you personally) so they have to accept that results and performances are going to suffer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmilner Posted 28 April 2019 Share Posted 28 April 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, Ric Flair said: You raise some valid points but I've always felt in the last two seasons prior to this that we did well at U23 level due to being a physical team. The football they played was direct and in your face at best. Theres nothing wrong with that to an extent if that's the level of club we are or the style we adopt as a club but it isn't. Currently the academy seems ill fitting to the first team and the direction it is going with the new state of the art training ground and trying to be a top 6 club just doesn't compute. It's certainly surprising that coaches like Beaglehole and Peake remain in charge at their respective levels despite the sheer shift in ambition and outlook of the club. Admirable that either we remain loyal to them for their service or that we are lucky enough that they are good enough to be the brains behind an academy that is part of a club like ours. If they arent the best, then why settle for them when we are gunning for the best facilities in the country and we are trying to steal a march on the elite clubs? Marginal gains by having a phenomenal academy and pathway for the first team to improve. Sadly nobody seems able to take Party Steve to task. In the last year , 3 academy players in such a short time have reached first team status ,1 has now , an England shirt ! Whether you like what is behind the scenes as such or not, i say " well done to the academy " !! Edited 28 April 2019 by jamesmilner 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 28 April 2019 Share Posted 28 April 2019 Huge boost for the academy today; 3 graduates all on the pitch. 3 of the best performers as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFC1996 Posted 6 May 2019 Share Posted 6 May 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 3 of the 4 in this pic are academy graduates, surely this highlights to those in the academy that there is a pathway to the first team if they can prove they have the ability and dedication to make a difference. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc sheff Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 Who’s next to come through? I fancy dewsbury hall’s chances personally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 3 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said: Who’s next to come through? I fancy dewsbury hall’s chances personally! I don't think so. Will surely be a defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc sheff Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 Just now, FIF said: I don't think so. Will surely be a defender. At fullback I presume? If so which one(s)? Centrebacks are gonna find it hard breaking into this team in all honesty so I can only say they haven’t got a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachhere Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 5 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said: Who’s next to come through? I fancy dewsbury hall’s chances personally! Would really like to see Josh Knight come through personally. It's no coincidence that the U23s dropped off so dramatically when he went on loan. Hopefully Layton will get a good spell in preseason too and we can see if he can step up too. Still sounds like Ali Reghba is expected to sign for us in the summer too, and would like to see him training with the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc sheff Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 Just now, rachhere said: Would really like to see Josh Knight come through personally. It's no coincidence that the U23s dropped off so dramatically when he went on loan. Hopefully Layton will get a good spell in preseason too and we can see if he can step up too. Still sounds like Ali Reghba is expected to sign for us in the summer too, and would like to see him training with the first team. Josh has something about him, seems flexible at CB/CDM but I think it could be two seasons really till we seen him get a chance with the first team based on our crazy strength in that position of CB. Layton needs a loan for definite, hopefully next year he’s injury free. ali is an interesting one, is he genuinely that good? Or are we signing him to be simply the striker of the u23s without a chance of wanting to really develop a player in that position like we seemed to of for so many years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 A lot need to be out on, that's what seems to have worked wonders for all 3 that have come through. Get them to a championship team and with some proper experience for half a year to a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachhere Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 1 minute ago, lcfc sheff said: Josh has something about him, seems flexible at CB/CDM but I think it could be two seasons really till we seen him get a chance with the first team based on our crazy strength in that position of CB. Layton needs a loan for definite, hopefully next year he’s injury free. ali is an interesting one, is he genuinely that good? Or are we signing him to be simply the striker of the u23s without a chance of wanting to really develop a player in that position like we seemed to of for so many years? He seemed too good for the u23s to me (when all things considered), and I am sure when he was on trial he trained with the first team. Not saying he will be playing league matches, but would be interesting to see how he can do in cup matches. Realistically we will only buy one striker, so ideally we want to have a u23 player we can draw on as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 6 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said: At fullback I presume? If so which one(s)? Centrebacks are gonna find it hard breaking into this team in all honesty so I can only say they haven’t got a chance. I have a sneaky feeling that Ughelumba could breakthrough - obviously it will only be as backup to Chilwell but he seems to have something. I take your point about the CBs but Josh Knight and Sam Hughes are both going to make it in the English leagues - at least championship level. Pascanu will too. We have a couple of good goalkeepers that ought to be playing league football as well. I haven't been as impressed with Dewsbury Hall as many on here. I just can't ever see him making it unless it's in the low divisions (I hope I'm proven wrong). I don't think we have any forwards including Ndukwe who'll make it and the midfielders are a little meh. I think we'll see the U23s moving on to the next tier of younger guys (18 or 19) like shade, Connor and Tee next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc sheff Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 3 minutes ago, rachhere said: He seemed too good for the u23s to me (when all things considered), and I am sure when he was on trial he trained with the first team. Not saying he will be playing league matches, but would be interesting to see how he can do in cup matches. Realistically we will only buy one striker, so ideally we want to have a u23 player we can draw on as well. Completely agree with trying to sign a striker to develop, a different angle to getting a vardy replacement ready for when that heart breaking time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc sheff Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 4 minutes ago, FIF said: I have a sneaky feeling that Ughelumba could breakthrough - obviously it will only be as backup to Chilwell but he seems to have something. I take your point about the CBs but Josh Knight and Sam Hughes are both going to make it in the English leagues - at least championship level. Pascanu will too. We have a couple of good goalkeepers that ought to be playing league football as well. I haven't been as impressed with Dewsbury Hall as many on here. I just can't ever see him making it unless it's in the low divisions (I hope I'm proven wrong). I don't think we have any forwards including Ndukwe who'll make it and the midfielders are a little meh. I think we'll see the U23s moving on to the next tier of younger guys (18 or 19) like shade, Connor and Tee next season. I’ve heard plenty about Thomas at left back aswell! And I can see all the defenders making it professionally but I mean more in regards to being a mainstay in the first team. With regards to dewsbury I think with a loan it could help him toughen up or Atleast prepare himself. He’s got the ball carrying talent that I like to see in centre mids so perhaps I’m a little biased in thinking he could be the next one. Current Forwards don’t seem like they’ll be in with a chance, perhaps like you’ve said we need to make way for the next wave. Out of Pennant, arlott john, shade, wright and tee someone has to be good enough surely! Forgot to say previously but Tavares (sp?) seems to have some interesting traits aswell as Brendan taking an instant liking it would seem?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachhere Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 6 minutes ago, FIF said: I have a sneaky feeling that Ughelumba could breakthrough - obviously it will only be as backup to Chilwell but he seems to have something. I take your point about the CBs but Josh Knight and Sam Hughes are both going to make it in the English leagues - at least championship level. Pascanu will too. We have a couple of good goalkeepers that ought to be playing league football as well. I haven't been as impressed with Dewsbury Hall as many on here. I just can't ever see him making it unless it's in the low divisions (I hope I'm proven wrong). I don't think we have any forwards including Ndukwe who'll make it and the midfielders are a little meh. I think we'll see the U23s moving on to the next tier of younger guys (18 or 19) like shade, Connor and Tee next season. Dewsbury Hall has been less effective since Josh went on loan. I imagine because he could focus more on the creative side because he knew Josh would be behind him to clear things up. Not sure about Ughelumba (what a name though!). Love Viktor Johansson who seems to have taken the third spot over Jakupovic. Rate him so much more than Iverson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 1 hour ago, lcfc sheff said: Who’s next to come through? I fancy dewsbury hall’s chances personally! I've never seen much in Dewsbury Hall. He's had a few flashes of brilliance but he didn't seem as exciting to watch as Hamza, Barnes and Chilwell were . Josh Knight is the only one in that category for me. Ughelumba looked he may fit into that category. If Fuchs leaves and Elder doesn't impress I could see Ughelumba on the bench. Luke Thomas and Taveras are the most promising 18 year olds but it's an outside chance to see them play. Ali Reghba could well find himself in the squad if he impresses in the preseason. God knows we've got precioius few reliable strikers. I'm really looking forward to the pre season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 Terel Pennant is only 16 and will step up in to the U23's next season, Tavares looks like he's destined for the progression too. There does seem to be an agreement to get the best U18 players up a level and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfcsnow Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 54 minutes ago, Foxxed said: I've never seen much in Dewsbury Hall. He's had a few flashes of brilliance but he didn't seem as exciting to watch as Hamza, Barnes and Chilwell were It's no surprise that all three were out on loan by the age of 19 though, Dewsbury-Hall is 21 at the start of next season and has no league experience, this area needs sorting out.. not having that experience earlier in his career will almost certainly stall progression. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 31 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said: It's no surprise that all three were out on loan by the age of 19 though, Dewsbury-Hall is 21 at the start of next season and has no league experience, this area needs sorting out.. not having that experience earlier in his career will almost certainly stall progression. Our players probably don't go on loan because they aren't good enough. The PL2 isn't Championship standard. It's not really League One standard either. Hamza, Chilwell, Barnes and Knight have been loaned because they've been clearly better than the PL2 standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 On 06/05/2019 at 11:15, LCFC1996 said: Hong kong isn't a place where ryan loft will be too happy on the pitch …….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 3 hours ago, Foxxed said: Our players probably don't go on loan because they aren't good enough. The PL2 isn't Championship standard. It's not really League One standard either. Hamza, Chilwell, Barnes and Knight have been loaned because they've been clearly better than the PL2 standard. They will be truth in this. Under 23 games are full of L1 and L2 scouts. The only player I think whose missed out and looked ready for it is Sam Hughes. However we rejected loan bids trying to win the league and he's been out for a long spell this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 7 May 2019 Share Posted 7 May 2019 1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said: They will be truth in this. Under 23 games are full of L1 and L2 scouts. The only player I think whose missed out and looked ready for it is Sam Hughes. However we rejected loan bids trying to win the league and he's been out for a long spell this season. Taking most developing players from our training facilities to a league two team would be pointless even damaging. And most of the youngsters would need to be a bit better to get into decent league one or championship teams that can promise game time and good training. I think our days of trying to win the league to advertise the academy are over. Chilwell, Hamza and Barnes are doing that well enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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