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Square pegs, round holes and unbalanced

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Claude on record as saying we needed to have support for Vardy against Huddersfield  - so he moved Maddison wider to allow Kelechi to play and played amartey as a more defensive minded full back given mendy and ndidi would be shuffling left covering Chilwell with Maddison unlikely to be defensively disciplined on that side. 

 

Surprised that he stuck with it away last week but you cant argue with the result ......... however, surely against decent opposition today, he should have reverted to a more pragmatic balanced set up - could have played Ricardo as RB to give us strong overlapping both sides.  I am not a fan of being deliberately unbalanced when it’s not necessary. Surprised that Puel felt under pressure to keep the same side. He isn’t usually shy about changing the line up. 

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1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

Good topic for discussion this one! I was going to post something about this in the Tactics thread, but this thread is more relevant.

 

Our current formation is definitely guilty of all of the things the thread title implies. Players in positions that aren't their natural positions and literally a system of playing that is unbalanced. We literally have one true raiding full back in Chilwell who has to do double the work as the player in front of him in Maddison drifts infield when we have the ball.

 

Capture.PNG.b80cc3c3058b4da2843bc3f645324591.PNG

 

Rather than praise or criticise the system I think it's important to think about why Puel might choose to play the system first. What are his team goals and what is his footballing philosophy? I think understanding that allows us to understand why he kept the same team lineup when this is something he has rarely done since being in charge of Leicester.

 

Puel's gameplan (and a word he uses often) is "control." It's something he has done historically at Lille, Nice and Southampton. He wants his teams to get on the ball and control the game such that the opposition doesn't get much possession and that we as a team attack and defend together. When we have control of the game, then we look to drag players out of position and play the intricate passing stuff to open the door. I think if you look at the second half of the Huddersfield game and especially versus Newcastle this plan succeeded. Newcastle had one shot on target in the entire game and that was from inside their own half! That's why I think he chose the same lineup because it was the first time this season the team has executed the "Puel gameplan" down to the smallest of details.

 

I think it's also important to think about what changes Puel has made as the season has gone by and why he might have made these adjustments:

- Maddison started off as our 10 early in the season, but moved to a left inside forward so that Nacho, Maddison and Vardy can all play in the same team. Against Huddersfield, these three linked up very well indeed and created one of our best attacking displays of the season.

- Ricardo when played at Right Back left us really vulnerable at the back. Too vulnerable! So Amartey came in so that Ricardo or another player can play as a traditional winger. It also meant that we could have three at the back so that Chilwell doesn't have to worry so much about things defensively, which is important because the player in front of him Maddison will drift inside when we have the ball, meaning he often has to occupy two opponents.

- Another change I noticed today and at Newcastle was that of the midfield two, whereas Ndidi started off as the one that stayed further forward, now Ndidi is doing that role and Mendy as more licence to drive the game in midfield. Mendy must be a contender for our player of the season as he has done a fantastic job and I think in today's game he was even more influential now that he can drive forward as his passing is often forward, faster and more accurate than Ndidi.

- (There's a lot more we could talk about such as the experiment with Gray up front against Liverpool and dropping Evans for Morgan, but I don't think these are as relevant for today).

 

It's clear that several of our players aren't playing in their best positions, but if it improves us overall as a team, then it can still be a good call. To evaluate our formation and today's performance... whilst we did lose, I would say that before we had Morgan sent off we controlled the game again (I appreciate this is a subjective opinion). Between minutes 45-60 Everton were really penned back and we were passing between the lines, playing side-to-side and dragging players out of position. We were building up a head of steam and looked the more likely to score. After we lost a man we fell apart though. Yes we had a man disadvantage, but we stopped doing what we had been doing and conceded the ball and control of the game for Everton who ultimately punished us.

 

If you are the manager of Leicester City and with the squad we have, you could opt to play any number of ways. Whilst we have some flaws in our squad (e.g. we haven't 1 for 1 replaced Mahrez with a player of equal quality), we do have a number of options and could choose to play in all manner of systems and formations. So it is interesting to see why he chooses this system specifically. As you imply in the  first post, we could play a more traditional system rather than this weird hybrid / hodge-podge system.

 

Personally I don't have a strong opinion on what system or formation we should play. However, as a fan I like to see exciting football of high quality and most importantly an entertaining game. If the Newcastle game is an example of Puel's ideal gameplan then personally I'm quite happy. Though our goals came from a set piece and a counter attack in that game, we played good stuff and looked like we could score from open play. We controlled the game and hardly gave Newcastle a kick and still looked exciting and threatening on the ball. You are right in that against a much better side than Newcastle in Everton today the system didn't look nearly as good. But do remember we have a very young team and they all need to learn how to play with one another. To make the sort of changes that Puel is trying (changing our style of play, changing the player profile of our squad and bringing through young players) is very tough to do in a short space of time and I think it's important to remember that. Sarri at Chelsea has done a great job in a short space of time in trying to change their style of play, but they have players that cost a hell of a lot of money recruited from around the top leagues and clubs.

 

It will be interesting to see how we play against Arsenal, but I think we will simply replace Evans for Morgan and continue with the same system. Ricardo scored today and for most of the game we were quite decent. Certainly in an 11 on 11 game you'd have thought we would have got a point at least from the game. I think 10 games into the season is a good time to judge where we are as a team. I personally see us as a team in transition and as a work in progress. That can't be used as an excuse forever (which is why Man United are a joke right now), but this is a super competitive league with a lot at stake. Everton have spent a lot more money than us in recent seasons but our relatively young team went toe-to-toe or better than them for large parts of the game today. There is definite potential in our squad.

 

 

I personally think that you've captured this very well. Whilst in the ideal world you'd have an ideal player in every position life isn't always like that and a manager has to use his players in a way that he believes benefits the potential team as a whole whilst knowing that the odd player would personally be better positioned elsewhere. To my eyes, all our best work is down the left but our right is weak. Despite his well taken goal, Pereira for me is a disappointment. Armarty and Ghezal are proving to be little better. 

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26 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

We literally lost today because of a screamer, which always needs an element of luck, and one poor individual display. If you think we were awful today you need your head checking.

Constantly misplacing passes, defenders out of position, captain making brainless decisions, lofting pointless balls up to a striker who’s strength are running in behind, and tolerating a complete shit house as a second striker? We were poor today, with flashes of average play. 

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1 hour ago, La-li-lu-le-lo said:

Constantly misplacing passes, defenders out of position, captain making brainless decisions, lofting pointless balls up to a striker who’s strength are running in behind, and tolerating a complete shit house as a second striker? We were poor today, with flashes of average play. 

Please just go and support someone else. 

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Maddison is not playing on the left wing at least not the extent that it can be considered to stifle his ability to create.

 

When we have don’t have possession, his job is to offer some protection to Chilwell. 

 

When we have possession he comes inside and plays as a number 10. The left wing role is played by Chilwell, not Maddison.

 

Somebody else mentioned it in another thread but we play 4-4-1-1 in defence and 3-4-1-2 in possession. Iheanacho is the man behind the striker in defence and Maddison in attack.

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I don't think you can under estimate the Kante factor when looking at recent seasons.

In 2015/16 we had him shielding a pedestrian cente back pairing of Huth and Morgan .. yet we only conceded a miserly 36 league goals in this season.

Chelsea conceded 53 league goals in this season.

In 2016/17 we conceded a poor 63 goals and surprise , surprise Chelsea won the title conceding only 33 goals... 20 less than the previous year.

Last year we conceded another poor 60 goals and Chelsea conceded only 38 goals.

 

Anybody thinking N'Didi is an adequate replacement should take a close look at the above stats.

The Kante factor is huge for any team he plays for.

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9 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

We literally lost today because of a screamer, which always needs an element of luck, and one poor individual display. If you think we were awful today you need your head checking.

I agree, I thought we were fair to great until Wes saw red and then the wheels came off as far as us being an attacking force went.

 

I was frustrated at how the game turned out, and there were area's which could have been better but we didn't have a poor game.

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8 hours ago, La-li-lu-le-lo said:

Constantly misplacing passes, defenders out of position, captain making brainless decisions, lofting pointless balls up to a striker who’s strength are running in behind, and tolerating a complete shit house as a second striker? We were poor today, with flashes of average play. 

Manchester United are looking for supporters? 

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Weirdly we seem to be picking a team to play a 343, playing with wing backs, Ricardo and Chillwell, front 3 of Maddison, Vardy, Iheanacho the only player arguably playing out of position is Amartey as RCB but he isn’t really an RB. So we pick a team to play 343 but then play 4231.

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14 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Me trying to get someone to read one of my posts...

 

giphy.gif

lol you’re a great poster mate and I love the way you can also take the piss out of yourself. Top man :thumbup:

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17 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Good topic for discussion this one! I was going to post something about this in the Tactics thread, but this thread is more relevant.

 

Our current formation is definitely guilty of all of the things the thread title implies. Players in positions that aren't their natural positions and literally a system of playing that is unbalanced. We literally have one true raiding full back in Chilwell who has to do double the work as the player in front of him in Maddison drifts infield when we have the ball.

 

Capture.PNG.b80cc3c3058b4da2843bc3f645324591.PNG

 

Rather than praise or criticise the system I think it's important to think about why Puel might choose to play the system first. What are his team goals and what is his footballing philosophy? I think understanding that allows us to understand why he kept the same team lineup when this is something he has rarely done since being in charge of Leicester.

 

Puel's gameplan (and a word he uses often) is "control." It's something he has done historically at Lille, Nice and Southampton. He wants his teams to get on the ball and control the game such that the opposition doesn't get much possession and that we as a team attack and defend together. When we have control of the game, then we look to drag players out of position and play the intricate passing stuff to open the door. I think if you look at the second half of the Huddersfield game and especially versus Newcastle this plan succeeded. Newcastle had one shot on target in the entire game and that was from inside their own half! That's why I think he chose the same lineup because it was the first time this season the team has executed the "Puel gameplan" down to the smallest of details.

 

I think it's also important to think about what changes Puel has made as the season has gone by and why he might have made these adjustments:

 

- Maddison started off as our 10 early in the season, but moved to a left inside forward so that Nacho, Maddison and Vardy can all play in the same team. Against Huddersfield, these three linked up very well indeed and created one of our best attacking displays of the season.

 

- Ricardo when played at Right Back left us really vulnerable at the back. Too vulnerable! So Amartey came in so that Ricardo or another player can play as a traditional winger. It also meant that we could have three at the back so that Chilwell doesn't have to worry so much about things defensively, which is important because the player in front of him Maddison will drift inside when we have the ball, meaning he often has to occupy two opponents.

 

- Another change I noticed today and at Newcastle was that of the midfield two, whereas Ndidi started off as the one that stayed further forward, now Ndidi is doing that role and Mendy as more licence to drive the game in midfield. Mendy must be a contender for our player of the season as he has done a fantastic job and I think in today's game he was even more influential now that he can drive forward as his passing is often forward, faster and more accurate than Ndidi.

 

- (There's a lot more we could talk about such as the experiment with Gray up front against Liverpool and dropping Evans for Morgan, but I don't think these are as relevant for today).

 

It's clear that several of our players aren't playing in their best positions, but if it improves us overall as a team, then it can still be a good call. To evaluate our formation and today's performance... whilst we did lose, I would say that before we had Morgan sent off we controlled the game again (I appreciate this is a subjective opinion). Between minutes 45-60 Everton were really penned back and we were passing between the lines, playing side-to-side and dragging players out of position. We were building up a head of steam and looked the more likely to score. After we lost a man we fell apart though. Yes we had a man disadvantage, but we stopped doing what we had been doing and conceded the ball and control of the game for Everton who ultimately punished us.

 

If you are the manager of Leicester City and with the squad we have, you could opt to play any number of ways. Whilst we have some flaws in our squad (e.g. we haven't 1 for 1 replaced Mahrez with a player of equal quality), we do have a number of options and could choose to play in all manner of systems and formations. So it is interesting to see why he chooses this system specifically. As you imply in the  first post, we could play a more traditional system rather than this weird hybrid / hodge-podge system.

 

Personally I don't have a strong opinion on what system or formation we should play. However, as a fan I like to see exciting football of high quality and most importantly an entertaining game. If the Newcastle game is an example of Puel's ideal gameplan then personally I'm quite happy. Though our goals came from a set piece and a counter attack in that game, we played good stuff and looked like we could score from open play. We controlled the game and hardly gave Newcastle a kick and still looked exciting and threatening on the ball. You are right in that against a much better side than Newcastle in Everton today the system didn't look nearly as good. But do remember we have a very young team and they all need to learn how to play with one another. To make the sort of changes that Puel is trying (changing our style of play, changing the player profile of our squad and bringing through young players) is very tough to do in a short space of time and I think it's important to remember that. Sarri at Chelsea has done a great job in a short space of time in trying to change their style of play, but they have players that cost a hell of a lot of money recruited from around the top leagues and clubs.

 

It will be interesting to see how we play against Arsenal, but I think we will simply replace Evans for Morgan and continue with the same system. Ricardo scored today and for most of the game we were quite decent. Certainly in an 11 on 11 game you'd have thought we would have got a point at least from the game. I think 10 games into the season is a good time to judge where we are as a team. I personally see us as a team in transition and as a work in progress. That can't be used as an excuse forever (which is why Man United are a joke right now), but this is a super competitive league with a lot at stake. Everton have spent a lot more money than us in recent seasons but our relatively young team went toe-to-toe or better than them for large parts of the game today. There is definite potential in our squad.

 

 

I tend to consider myself possibly the most intelligent poster on the forum but you run a close second mate!

:P

However, I don’t see us ‘controlling’ games particularly well at all. For me, ‘control’ stems from a very solid defence and a ball playing central midfield.

We concede far too many daft goals to be a side who can be said ‘controls’ games.

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‘Possession’ football isn’t the issue, I think Puel’s coaching of it is. We’re not very structured in possession, he gives our players a lot of freedom to create for themselves which on face value sounds positive but fairly often we end up with a bit of a chaotic structure. 

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“In football everything is complicated by the presence of the opposite team.” -  Jean-Paul Sartre

"Football is a simple game made complicated by people who should know better" - Bill Shankly

 

Wish Claude would take note of these simple facts.

 

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