Puel & Pearson one in the same?

[foxinsocks]

This is mad.

Pearson on two occasions took us up levels.   I know that in the end he had sone short commings... but no one can deny how far he took us..  nb i am not a big pearson fan. 

Anyone think puel can take is higher? No.

 

[AKCJ]

 

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

Have you been drinking?

I thought it said "but" instead of "not".

 

My bad

[CosbehFox]

Complete different. 

 

The stem of Puel’s problem is that he fails to listen to advice from staff (coaching and medical) and the players. 

 

Pearson however encourage meetings with a leadership group within the players and regular meetings with staff. 

 

Ranieri excelled when he took the Pearson approach but failed when he became his own decision maker. 

[worthosoriginals]

2 hours ago, AKCJ said:

Won 7 of the last 9 games but okay.

thanks to esteban.

[OhYesNdidi]

20 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Complete different. 

 

The stem of Puel’s problem is that he fails to listen to advice from staff (coaching and medical) and the players. 

 

Pearson however encourage meetings with a leadership group within the players and regular meetings with staff. 

 

Ranieri excelled when he took the Pearson approach but failed when he became his own decision maker. 

Gets abused whenever he leaves Vardy out due to fatigue or injury but he doesn’t listen to his medical team? Wot

[Clever Fox]

Pearson is a master at setting up a Club for success and he enjoyed that side of the business.

However when it comes to the finer points of Coaching he lacked Puels ability.

Puel on the other hand enjoys the Coaching and working with players side more than the admin side.

Puel is an excellent Coach and tactician who is prepared to work towards improving individuals and the team however long that takes. Knowing that the end result will be a team that can compete regularly at the top end.

Recent results prove that his methods are working, despite some of the poor performances this season.

His signings have proved excellent, and the improvement in certain players is evident for all to see.

I did one want to see what he does with another full Window as I don't think we're far away now from a really good team who can mix it with anyone.

[CosbehFox]

46 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

Gets abused whenever he leaves Vardy out due to fatigue or injury but he doesn’t listen to his medical team? Wot

Ignored the medical staff’s qualified opinion to take Vardy off after a hour at Palace.

 

On Saturday, there was clearly a debate on the same topic 

[CosbehFox]

59 minutes ago, worthosoriginals said:

thanks to esteban.

If you believe in fairy tales according to Vardy’s autobiography 

[shailen]

3 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Let's be fair, Pearson walked into a team mid table with the season largely regarded as a write-off, Puel walked into a relegation battle so needed to steady the ship. Counter only works against sides like Chelsea though, who will press us. There's no point setting up for the counter against a team like Palace or a Cardiff. I don't think he's got the balance right fyi, but at the end of the day we've got no chance of recreating that system so it makes sense to move on to something else, whether that's Puel's brand I don't know. Pearson's job was to get us with England's elite and Puel's is to get us amongst Europe's, there job especially is very similar just on a greater scale for Puel

Agreed. Although we need to merge the two styles and get that when teams sit back we need to play another way - ultimately I don't see why we can't do this. Liverpool, the fergie United and Madrid all play/played counter attacking style with pace which was exciting and brought success. Ultimately all these teams had the players that could pierce a defence in half but their main style was to counter attack and rely on their pace with precision needed when teams sat back against them.

 

We have better technical players now then before so we can play the Puel way but ultimately the amount of pace we have it baffles me why we don't exploit this as our main style of play. Fundamentally not sure if it will bring us more success, but it is a hell of a lot more exciting than the current style of play. My worry is that teams have tried to change their identity too quickly (Stoke) and have been relegated through it. 

 

 

[worthosoriginals]

12 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

If you believe in fairy tales according to Vardy’s autobiography 

like Albrighton said at the time, esteban became the conductor.  

team talks, tactics.  he was magic you noooooo

[Ted Maul]

2 hours ago, foxinsocks said:

This is mad.

Pearson on two occasions took us up levels.   I know that in the end he had sone short commings... but no one can deny how far he took us..  nb i am not a big pearson fan. 

Anyone think puel can take is higher? No.

 

Puel has already taken us higher than Pearson did. 5 places, in fact, without ever being in any danger of relegation whatsoever. Can he take us higher? It's going to be difficult, we're pretty close to our realistic ceiling.

[Stadt]

I think the similarity is they’re both long term builders rather than successful in the short term. Not that similar beyond that though 

[foxinsocks]

7 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

Puel has already taken us higher than Pearson did. 5 places, in fact, without ever being in any danger of relegation whatsoever. Can he take us higher? It's going to be difficult, we're pretty close to our realistic ceiling.

Its relative.  Pearson improved us.

Yes were now as high as we've been. Can puel make us in to anything better than mid table? Dont think so.

[OhYesNdidi]

5 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

Its relative.  Pearson improved us.

Yes were now as high as we've been. Can puel make us in to anything better than mid table? Dont think so.

I’m fairness, puel has improved is. Not loads but we are competitive in premier league games, away from home we are much better. We aren’t amazing but we’ve defiantly improved since the Claudio / Shakey teams

[Ted Maul]

5 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

Its relative.  Pearson improved us.

Yes were now as high as we've been. Can puel make us in to anything better than mid table? Dont think so.

Can anyone? There's a reason 'the big 6' finish in the top 6 places pretty much every season. Anyone expecting us to overhaul the likes of Man United is a mentalist. 

[Tringfox]

3 hours ago, lfu said:

on that note... 'would have' or 'would've', never 'would of'

Your a funny guy!

[Vardinio'sCat]

8 hours ago, shailen said:

Difference is that we were going nowhere before Pearson and he had to rebuild aggressively whereas we are probably at the highest realistic level we can be currently and were when Puel took over. 

 

He is trying to take us to that next level where we dominate the opposition with patient possession like Man City but we could end up playing ourselves into relegation. Saturday was a perfect example of why we are suited to be a counter attacking team - we have bags of pace and an intelligent forward like Vardy with blistering pace. 

 

I think personally the counter attack suits our style of play. Against those teams that will sit off us we should attack and try more riskier penetrating passes. Drinkwater and others did that a lot in our title winning season and its no coincidence that everyone is calling for Albrighton to be in the team as he always does this consistently. 

 

The big what is if we had stuck with our winning formula, built on it, and tried to do an Atletico.

 

I know that is simplifying it, but to hit on a winning style then immediately try to seriously modify it does seem a bit perverse, looking back.

[Monsell1976]

Nice thread to rekindle the Pearson haters and lovers, and to continue the puel haters and defenders.

 I love this forum ? 

[That_Dude]

13 hours ago, shailen said:

Difference is that we were going nowhere before Pearson and he had to rebuild aggressively whereas we are probably at the highest realistic level we can be currently and were when Puel took over. 

 

He is trying to take us to that next level where we dominate the opposition with patient possession like Man City but we could end up playing ourselves into relegation. Saturday was a perfect example of why we are suited to be a counter attacking team - we have bags of pace and an intelligent forward like Vardy with blistering pace. 

 

I think personally the counter attack suits our style of play. Against those teams that will sit off us we should attack and try more riskier penetrating passes. Drinkwater and others did that a lot in our title winning season and its no coincidence that everyone is calling for Albrighton to be in the team as he always does this consistently. 

How people can't understand that we don't have Kanté, Mahrez and DD anymore? Why are you still stuck in 2016?

[shailen]

22 hours ago, That_Dude said:

How people can't understand that we don't have Kanté, Mahrez and DD anymore? Why are you still stuck in 2016?

I get that and I'm not saying that we play the exact same way but for me we do not have the technical players to play a possession game and get results. Our current squad is explosive and full of pace so for me we should counter on more teams. Now we use to lump it forward into space a lot in our title winning season but I'm not saying that's what we should be doing now but instead we should be more direct like ricardo was against Chelsea and give it to the likes of Maddison to create something. The Watford game at home we did something similar and led to a fantastic goal by Maddison.

 

I don't think we are a possession team as we simply don't have the players to hold the ball and consistently create chances like Man City. I think we have players who can be direct and take full backs on and stretch defences and so we should focus on these strengths.

[Attywolf]

17 minutes ago, shailen said:

I get that and I'm not saying that we play the exact same way but for me we do not have the technical players to play a possession game and get results. Our current squad is explosive and full of pace so for me we should counter on more teams. Now we use to lump it forward into space a lot in our title winning season but I'm not saying that's what we should be doing now but instead we should be more direct like ricardo was against Chelsea and give it to the likes of Maddison to create something. The Watford game at home we did something similar and led to a fantastic goal by Maddison.

 

I don't think we are a possession team as we simply don't have the players to hold the ball and consistently create chances like Man City. I think we have players who can be direct and take full backs on and stretch defences and so we should focus on these strengths.

If you've seen puel on the touch line he wants us to move the ball forward faster and is angry with the players when they start moving the ball side to side and backward's. The long ball tactic started to not work last year as teams just stepped back and stopped us playing the right balls. Which is why puel wanted us to pass the ball more to open up teams to allow us to use the explosive players better 

[nnfox]

Both Pearson and Puel are good managers and like the OP has highlighted have somewhat similar approaches to their vision of taking the club forward.

 

Key difference for me is the time and pressure they are under to get where the owners want to get to.  Pearson had pressure to get to the Premier League but if a wrong step was taken, then the worst case scenario would be that we would try again next season.  With Puel, a wrong step could mean relegation which would be a disaster.

[shailen]

32 minutes ago, Attywolf said:

If you've seen puel on the touch line he wants us to move the ball forward faster and is angry with the players when they start moving the ball side to side and backward's. The long ball tactic started to not work last year as teams just stepped back and stopped us playing the right balls. Which is why puel wanted us to pass the ball more to open up teams to allow us to use the explosive players better 

Surely that's then a communication issue if the team are not listening to Puel or if Puel is not able to implement a plan to suit his strategy.

 

I'm not saying that Puel may not want us to play a fast paced game and I understand that we can't just lump it forward but we are not ready for the possession game if that is the way we take. You can also counter attack without lumping it forward - having players committing defenders or putting crosses in early. 

[Foxhateram]

On 24/12/2018 at 23:43, OhYesNdidi said:

I’m fairness, puel has improved is. Not loads but we are competitive in premier league games, away from home we are much better. We aren’t amazing but we’ve defiantly improved since the Claudio / Shakey teams

But our home form is now dire. Where as under all our previous 3 managers it's been one of the best in the league.

[Captain...]

2 hours ago, shailen said:

I get that and I'm not saying that we play the exact same way but for me we do not have the technical players to play a possession game and get results. Our current squad is explosive and full of pace so for me we should counter on more teams. Now we use to lump it forward into space a lot in our title winning season but I'm not saying that's what we should be doing now but instead we should be more direct like ricardo was against Chelsea and give it to the likes of Maddison to create something. The Watford game at home we did something similar and led to a fantastic goal by Maddison.

 

I don't think we are a possession team as we simply don't have the players to hold the ball and consistently create chances like Man City. I think we have players who can be direct and take full backs on and stretch defences and so we should focus on these strengths.

I agree, we don’t have the players to play this way. We are a second tier club not able to attract the very best players who have the technique and temperament and intelligence to play the way Puel wants. All of our players have strengths and weaknesses we don’t have players like Silva or Fernandinho who can effortlessly switch between metronomic passing and blistering incisive attacks with an almost telepathic co-ordination with team mates. For this formation to be successful you need 11 highly accomplished players with no weaknesses to exploit. One weakness and it is easy to put pressure on the players that aren’t good on the ball. Pressure Wilf or Morgan and you will cause them to make a mistake or go back to Kasper. These kind of mistakes mean that players can’t fully commit themselves forwards in case we give the ball away in a dangerous part of the pitch and everyone is out of position. 

 

It’s frustrating because I am not seeing improvements and it is the same problem as 12 months ago. Puel needs to adapt to not expose our weaknesses or buy 5 or 6 top quality players if we want to progress. Ghezzal sums up the Puel reign. Tidy on the ball, can pass, can shoot, can beat a man but he’s actually not good enough at any one discipline and is sloppy. Ghezzal is never going to be a top footballer and we will never be a team greater than the sum of our parts playing this way.

 

This is where Pearson is different he didn’t have a set style or formation he always looked to get the best out of individuals sometimes to the detriment of the team but when it clicked it was beautiful.