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[Strokes]

I’m glad Nigel is back to rustle some jimmies.

[Kopfkino]

30 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Literally everything he does is rhetoric without substance. Baffling that anybody is still daft enough to take him seriously after all this time.

 

Is it not quite obviously because he says broadly what they are thinking? And when people sneer and mock him, or call the people he appeals to daft, he just has to turn round to them and say look they're sneering and mocking you. 

[Kopfkino]

10 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

I have to laugh at how Farage gets away with some stuff. The bloke is a wealthy, privately-educated ex-commodity broker with a high income from his MEP salary and media work.....and a "man of the people" with a pint in his hand?

He's an "honest man, unlike those professional politicians" but has been docked half his salary as an MEP for diverting it from work for his constituents to the coffers of his former political party?

....and now he's comparing himself and his followers in his new party to WW1 veterans? 

 

 

Because nobody really cares about people's backgrounds beyond how you sound and if you went to Oxbridge. It helps him that he didn't go to university let alone Oxbridge. Exactly the same as Jeremy Corbyn spending his whole life as part of the top 1 or 2 %, in reality as part of the few, but people still lapped him up standing up to the 'few'. 

 

That, and socially/culturally, he is very much a man of the people. 

[Heathrow fox]

1 hour ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Because nobody really cares about people's backgrounds beyond how you sound and if you went to Oxbridge. It helps him that he didn't go to university let alone Oxbridge. Exactly the same as Jeremy Corbyn spending his whole life as part of the top 1 or 2 %, in reality as part of the few, but people still lapped him up standing up to the 'few'. 

 

That, and socially/culturally, he is very much a man of the people. 

I don’t think Farage is seen as a man of the people.He’s liked because he causes havoc and speaks his mind.As for Corbyn spending his whole life in the top 1 or 2% are you sure about that?

[Kopfkino]

18 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

I don’t think Farage is seen as a man of the people.He’s liked because he causes havoc and speaks his mind.As for Corbyn spending his whole life in the top 1 or 2% are you sure about that?

Depends how you define man of the people. He has a decent rapport with a not insignificant portion of the population (best approval ratings with Baby Boomers and Gen X's of any politician for a good while) and quite well expresses what they are feeling from a cultural point of view.

 

Maybe top 1 or 2% could be a stretch, wouldn't be far off though. Fairly privileged background, a very well off mother in particular, and he's been an MP for 36 years and it surely can't be controversial to suggest that would put him in a financial position right in the very top percentiles. Hardly had the financial position of an ordinary person for much of his life.

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Is it not quite obviously because he says broadly what they are thinking? And when people sneer and mock him, or call the people he appeals to daft, he just has to turn round to them and say look they're sneering and mocking you. 

There's something in this.

 

There's clearly a current of fear of the "other" and belief in superiority and absolute independence of a nation state running through various areas of society and politics right now in the UK and in other places (Trump, Putin, Erdogan, Duterte, Bolsanaro etc) in the world, and merely dismissing it and those that seek to forment it as inconsequential isn't going to make it go away, not with the way information can be communicated and disseminated from millions of different sources using the Internet today.

 

Of course such ideas are analog ideas in a digital world based on a view of the past that simply cannot hold today (hence the broad majority of support - but not all, obviously - being among older people), and interconnected decisions and greater cooperation at least on certain matters is not only desirable, but also probably crucial...but in any good democratic society any idea held by at least a reasonable amount of people has to be addressed rather than being dismissed, no matter how irrational it might seem.

[Heathrow fox]

2 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Depends how you define man of the people. He has a decent rapport with a not insignificant portion of the population (best approval ratings with Baby Boomers and Gen X's of any politician for a good while) and quite well expresses what they are feeling from a cultural point of view.

 

Maybe top 1 or 2% could be a stretch, wouldn't be far off though. Fairly privileged background, a very well off mother in particular, and he's been an MP for 36 years and it surely can't be controversial to suggest that would put him in a financial position right in the very top percentiles. Hardly had the financial position of an ordinary person for much of his life.

Agreed he may have earned far more than the ordinary bloke over the years.However Im sure he’d have took hits with his divorces.He seems like the sort of man that if you gave him 50 quid to last the week,he’d give you £42 change at the end.Wouldnt be surprised if he still had a black and white telly.

[Buce]

 

For some inexplicable reason, MattP has neglected to post this latest poll (an oversight, I'm sure) - never mind, I'll save him the trouble:

 

Labour has taken a 7% lead in voting intention poll as the Tories drop 6 points since 28 March

 

 

 

Labour 36% (+1% change from 28 March)

 

Conservative 29 (-6)

 

Ukip 11 (+2)

 

Lib Dem 8 (-1)

 

Other 6 (+3)

 

SNP 5 (+1)

 

Green Party 4 (-1)

 

Plaid Cymru 1 (+1)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/14/stephen-dorrell-defection-change-uk-tory-poll-five-year-low

Edited 14 April 2019 by Buce

[Dr The Singh]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

For some inexplicable reason, MattP has neglected to post this latest poll (an oversight, I'm sure) - never mind, I'll save him the trouble:

 

Labour has taken a 7% lead in voting intention poll as the Tories drop 6 points since 28 March

 

 

 

Labour 36% (+1% change from 28 March)

 

Conservative 29 (-6)

 

Ukip 11 (+2)

 

Lib Dem 8 (-1)

 

Other 6 (+3)

 

SNP 5 (+1)

 

Green Party 4 (-1)

 

Plaid Cymru 1 (+1)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/14/stephen-dorrell-defection-change-uk-tory-poll-five-year-low

Good to see Green Party losing points, hate then foookers

[Guest MattP]

18 hours ago, Buce said:

For some inexplicable reason, MattP has neglected to post this latest poll (an oversight, I'm sure) - never mind, I'll save him the trouble:

You posted that minutes after it was released

[Guest MattP]

David Lammy needs mental help, he's completely lost the plot.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/14/comparing-erg-to-nazis-not-strong-enough-says-david-lammy

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

David Lammy needs mental help, he's completely lost the plot.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/14/comparing-erg-to-nazis-not-strong-enough-says-david-lammy

 

I don't think he ever had a plot to lose, tbh.

[Nick]

Some interesting knife crime related research published. It does help dispel some of the exaggeration and myth surrounding knife crime and it’s exclusive relationship with substance use and trade and focuses slightly more on the idea of other cultural territorial issues and behaviours being in play.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47912080

[urban.spaceman]

 

[davieG]

Legal aid has been granted for Shamima Begum - who joined the Islamic State group aged 15 - to fight the decision to revoke her UK citizenship.

The 19-year-old, who left east London in 2015, was stripped of her citizenship in February, after she was found in a Syrian refugee camp.

Her family has previously said it planned to challenge the decision.

Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt said the Legal Aid Agency's decision to assist Ms Begum made him "very uncomfortable".

He added, however, that the UK was "a country that believes that people with limited means should have access to the resources of the state if they want to challenge the decisions the state has made about them".

Legal aid is financial assistance provided by the taxpayer to those unable to afford legal representation themselves, whether they are accused of a crime or a victim who seeks the help of a lawyer through the court process.

It is means-tested and availability has been cut back significantly in recent years in England and Wales.

Civil servants at the Legal Aid Agency, which is part of the Ministry of Justice, are responsible for making decisions about who receives legal aid.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47934721

[davieG]

A revamp of the EU's copyright rules has passed its final hurdle and will now come into law.

The rules include a section known as Article 13.

It says that if users upload infringing content to a service, the tech firm involved must either make a "best effort" to get permission from the rights holders or quickly remove it.

The UK was among 19 nations that supported the law in its Council of Europe vote.

But Poland was one of those that objected on the grounds that it could pave the way to internet censorship.

EU sources say that five other countries also opposed the rules - Italy, Finland, Sweden, Luxembourg and the Netherlands - while Belgium, Estonia and Slovenia abstained.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47933530

[Carl the Llama]

After learning that one of my friends and their immediate family members all decided their Brexit vote on the basis of that year's Eurovision song contest (we were in the bottom 3 so they voted leave) I am now more supportive than ever of a people's vote.  The problem was lack of any real understanding of the topic caused by directly contradictory and often false information from both camps so they didn't take it that seriously but a lot has been learned in the intervening years on the back of observable, real world events.

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, davieG said:

Legal aid has been granted for Shamima Begum - who joined the Islamic State group aged 15 - to fight the decision to revoke her UK citizenship.

The 19-year-old, who left east London in 2015, was stripped of her citizenship in February, after she was found in a Syrian refugee camp.

Her family has previously said it planned to challenge the decision.

Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt said the Legal Aid Agency's decision to assist Ms Begum made him "very uncomfortable".

He added, however, that the UK was "a country that believes that people with limited means should have access to the resources of the state if they want to challenge the decisions the state has made about them".

Legal aid is financial assistance provided by the taxpayer to those unable to afford legal representation themselves, whether they are accused of a crime or a victim who seeks the help of a lawyer through the court process.

It is means-tested and availability has been cut back significantly in recent years in England and Wales.

Civil servants at the Legal Aid Agency, which is part of the Ministry of Justice, are responsible for making decisions about who receives legal aid.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47934721

This will be popular. 

[Buce]

36 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

This will be popular. 

 

It's completely legitimate, though.

[MC Prussian]

10 hours ago, MattP said:

David Lammy needs mental help, he's completely lost the plot.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/14/comparing-erg-to-nazis-not-strong-enough-says-david-lammy

 

10 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I don't think he ever had a plot to lose, tbh.

I sometimes wonder how he can still be MP representing Tottenham, when will he make that area great again?

[MC Prussian]

I just don't see the point in a Brexit party, the sole existence is based upon the concept of a Brexit.

Does the party have any other in-depth and reasonable policies?

 

Seems to me Farage just needs the limelight and can't stand anybody else steering the ship, more like an ego trip that sees him occupy a seat in Brussels again.

Bit simplistic for him to blame his exit on a right-wing shift within UKIP, when former BNP members have also joined Labour.

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

It's completely legitimate, though.

Exactly this. I personally don't ever want to see this terrorist supporter step foot on british soil again, but I have no problem with her getting legal aid to challenge the decision of the home office. The home office not being able to be challenged is far more dangerous than a single terrorist.

[Buce]

27 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

 

I sometimes wonder how he can still be MP representing Tottenham, when will he make that area great again?

 

 

Never.

 

They are perennial runners-up.

[oxford blue]

3 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

After learning that one of my friends and their immediate family members all decided their Brexit vote on the basis of that year's Eurovision song contest (we were in the bottom 3 so they voted leave) I am now more supportive than ever of a people's vote.  The problem was lack of any real understanding of the topic caused by directly contradictory and often false information from both camps so they didn't take it that seriously but a lot has been learned in the intervening years on the back of observable, real world events.

Although a friend has voted leave for a spurious reason, is that a reason for a second referendum? I suggest most people considered the issue carefully before voting. Of course, there were some spurious claims from both sides, but that happens in any election. The UK would have left by now if it wasn't for bickering MP's (the majority of whom belong to parties who pledged to honour the referendum). Even then, the future relationship with the EU would still have to be settled, given the transitional period. A majority in favour of leaving by over 1.25 million votes deserves honouring. 

 

With regard to the term 'people's vote', wasn't the first referendum just that? I would be very surprised if another referendum had such a high turnout - higher than in any election since 1992.

 

[Strokes]

9 minutes ago, oxford blue said:

Although a friend has voted leave for a spurious reason, is that a reason for a second referendum? I suggest most people considered the issue carefully before voting. Of course, there were some spurious claims from both sides, but that happens in any election. The UK would have left by now if it wasn't for bickering MP's (the majority of whom belong to parties who pledged to honour the referendum). Even then, the future relationship with the EU would still have to be settled, given the transitional period. A majority in favour of leaving by over 1.25 million votes deserves honouring. 

 

With regard to the term 'people's vote', wasn't the first referendum just that? I would be very surprised if another referendum had such a high turnout - higher than in any election since 1992.

 

Not long after the result, I can remember being onsite with a cockney (Arsenal fan iirc). I can remember he said, I’m surprised you voted to leave, your team are in the champions league now, we can’t play in that if we leave the EU. 

Now I don’t know if that’s the only reason he voted remain as I didn’t exactly interrogate him but some other comments he made that week were borderline racist. So given, that all racists definitely voted leave, I doubt he was far from it.