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[What the Fuchs?]

13 hours ago, purpleronnie said:

Bizarre, labour act immediately to expel him but the anti Semitism still isn't dealt with.

 

As for Campbell does Corbyn really want him as an enemy?

I posted this a few days ago, but I'll say it again. Is there actually any evidence for anti-semitism in the Labour Party beyond unsubstantiated headlines in Tory newspapers and from the British Broadcasting Conservatives, or from Independent Group MPs who are all members of the Labour Friends of Israel and disagree with Corbyn's support for Palestine?

[Nick]

1 minute ago, What the Fuchs? said:

I posted this a few days ago, but I'll say it again. Is there actually any evidence for anti-semitism in the Labour Party beyond unsubstantiated headlines in Tory newspapers and from the British Broadcasting Conservatives, or from Independent Group MPs who are all members of the Labour Friends of Israel and disagree with Corbyn's support for Palestine?

You've just made @MattP throw his FT posting device against a wall somewhere  

[What the Fuchs?]

Just now, Swan Lesta said:

You've just made @MattP throw his FT posting device against a wall somewhere  

Have I missed some vital post he made? ??I'm guessing he's not a Corbynite

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

You've just made @MattP throw his FT posting device against a wall somewhere  

 

No antisemitism at all - it's all just made up by the Jewish media.

[What the Fuchs?]

Just now, MattP said:

 

No antisemitism at all - it's all just made up by the Jewish media.

Repeat the same things often enough and people will believe it without troubling themselves to think if there's actually any evidence for it, or whether the Tory donor purveyors of the 'information' have an ulterior motive. Remember when the papers were running stories about how Ed Miliband's dad hated Britain. They've been at it for years, from the Beaverbrook press of the 40s to Thatcher. I actually studied at university how Thatcher cultivated a sense of crisis in the late 70s to such an extent that she controlled the political and media narrative and therefore solutions to this culture of crisis.

 

God I hate the Tories 

[Nick]

2 minutes ago, What the Fuchs? said:

Repeat the same things often enough and people will believe it without troubling themselves to think if there's actually any evidence for it, or whether the Tory donor purveyors of the 'information' have an ulterior motive. Remember when the papers were running stories about how Ed Miliband's dad hated Britain. They've been at it for years, from the Beaverbrook press of the 40s to Thatcher. I actually studied at university how Thatcher cultivated a sense of crisis in the late 70s to such an extent that she controlled the political and media narrative and therefore solutions to this culture of crisis.

 

God I hate the Tories 

Not us much as I hate the Romans.

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, What the Fuchs? said:

Repeat the same things often enough and people will believe it without troubling themselves to think if there's actually any evidence for it, or whether the Tory donor purveyors of the 'information' have an ulterior motive. Remember when the papers were running stories about how Ed Miliband's dad hated Britain. They've been at it for years, from the Beaverbrook press of the 40s to Thatcher. I actually studied at university how Thatcher cultivated a sense of crisis in the late 70s to such an extent that she controlled the political and media narrative and therefore solutions to this culture of crisis.

 

God I hate the Tories 

Well as long as your viewpoint isn't compromised by prejudice

 

How did the media manage to get the pictures and video footage of Corbyn sat with holocaust deniers and laying wreaths at the graves of Black September terrorists though if he didn't do it? 

 

How did the right wing media and the tories force him into inviting undoubtedly antisemitic groups into parliament like Hamas and Hizbollah?

 

How did they make Chris Williamson stand on a stage and say the party had given too much ground on antisemitism? 

[Nick]

Look what you've gone and done now @What the Fuchs? he doesn't need trolling in order to post more anti left content, he's hitting every target possible already and has done so for the past 14 years.

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

 

 

Are the 11 candidates so far all realistic contenders for the job or is it a public and party promotion exercise for some in that if they prove popular and get a percentage of the vote or hang on in the process for a length of time that they get a shift in importance and a cabinet job when one of the top four entitled, rich toffs of the people finally gets the gig and has to give some credence to the power hungry mob beneath them to keep the party members happy?

 

On an aside, I appreciate the above is quite a long sentence.

 

Sorry.

 

I don't know.

 

But here's some early footage of the leadership race:

 

 

[Finnaldo]

15 minutes ago, MattP said:

Well as long as your viewpoint isn't compromised by prejudice

 

How did the media manage to get the pictures and video footage of Corbyn sat with holocaust deniers and laying wreaths at the graves of Black September terrorists though if he didn't do it? 

 

How did the right wing media and the tories force him into inviting undoubtedly antisemitic groups into parliament like Hamas and Hizbollah?

 

How did they make Chris Williamson stand on a stage and say the party had given too much ground on antisemitism? 

 

The Black September stuff was inexcusable, that much is true, and there should have been much of an effort to clear ground and make amends.

 

However, whilst we can never know for certain, I think its fair to say Corbyn isn't a raging antisemite, it was rather a poor choice of association than outright hatred for Jews, and whilst those elements DO exists in the Labour Party I doubt it makes up even a sizable minority of it's membership (again, this doesn't excuse the lack of clarification and clear ups within the party).  

 

However, by the same token, the government has had a working relationship with Saudi Arabia, a country that regularly cites 'The Protocols of Zion' as fact. Is there the same level of animosity for this?

[What the Fuchs?]

10 minutes ago, MattP said:

Well as long as your viewpoint isn't compromised by prejudice

 

How did the media manage to get the pictures and video footage of Corbyn sat with holocaust deniers and laying wreaths at the graves of Black September terrorists though if he didn't do it? 

 

How did the right wing media and the tories force him into inviting undoubtedly antisemitic groups into parliament like Hamas and Hizbollah?

 

How did they make Chris Williamson stand on a stage and say the party had given too much ground on antisemitism? 

Jeremy Corbyn is not a Holocaust denier, unknowingly being in the same place as one does not make him one.

 

Corbyn did not lay wreaths for terrorists, but for Palestinians killed by Israel in 1985.

 

Corbyn suggested the idea of inviting Hamas and Hezbollah to be part of a PEACE process through parliament in 2009. Why is that so bad?

 

Chris Williamson was absolutely right, the party has taken a lot of criticism on what evidence? Some people don't like the fact that a leader of a major political party has the opinion that some of Israel's policies are bad, rather than just blindly accepting them as America do. if criticism of Israel makes you anti-Semitic, why doesn't criticism of Saudi Arabia make you Islamophobic?

 

All people seem to want are good old character assassinations in their favourite cheap right wing tabloid, and stories about how Corbyn didn't sing the national anthem, or how his remembrance poppy wasn't big enough.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, Finnaldo said:

 

The Black September stuff was inexcusable, that much is true, and there should have been much of an effort to clear ground and make amends.

 

However, whilst we can never know for certain, I think its fair to say Corbyn isn't a raging antisemite, it was rather a poor choice of association than outright hatred for Jews, and whilst those elements DO exists in the Labour Party I doubt it makes up even a sizable minority of it's membership (again, this doesn't excuse the lack of clarification and clear ups within the party).  

 

However, by the same token, the government has had a working relationship with Saudi Arabia, a country that regularly cites 'The Protocols of Zion' as fact. Is there the same level of animosity for this?

I actually agree with you.

 

I don't think he's an anti-semite or hates Jews, I just think he lives in that Morning Star left wing echo chamber that has normalised a lot if things that are either very close to the line of antisemitism or just over it. 

 

He's a bit like a pensioner still using the word nig-nog and not knowing it's racist.

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, What the Fuchs? said:

Jeremy Corbyn is not a Holocaust denier, unknowingly being in the same place as one does not make him one.

 

Corbyn did not lay wreaths for terrorists, but for Palestinians killed by Israel in 1985.

 

Corbyn suggested the idea of inviting Hamas and Hezbollah to be part of a PEACE process through parliament in 2009. Why is that so bad?

 

Chris Williamson was absolutely right, the party has taken a lot of criticism on what evidence? Some people don't like the fact that a leader of a major political party has the opinion that some of Israel's policies are bad, rather than just blindly accepting them as America do. if criticism of Israel makes you anti-Semitic, why doesn't criticism of Saudi Arabia make you Islamophobic?

 

All people seem to want are good old character assassinations in their favourite cheap right wing tabloid, and stories about how Corbyn didn't sing the national anthem, or how his remembrance poppy wasn't big enough.

Jimmy saville wasn’t a paedo, accidentally walking into a childrens home with no trousers and erection is just unfortunate.

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

I actually agree with you.

 

I don't think he's an anti-semite or hates Jews, I just think he lives in that Morning Star left wing echo chamber that has normalised a lot if things that are either very close to the line of antisemitism or just over it. 

 

He's a bit like a pensioner still using the word nig-nog and not knowing it's racist.

 

I understand your point of view as someone on the right, but I think it really reflects on his lack of leadership more than it does on his anti-semitism. A man that stuck in his own way shouldn't be leading the Labour Party and the Momentum propping him up just seems to add to his arrogance.

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, What the Fuchs? said:

Jeremy Corbyn is not a Holocaust denier, unknowingly being in the same place as one does not make him one.

 

Corbyn did not lay wreaths for terrorists, but for Palestinians killed by Israel in 1985.

 

Corbyn suggested the idea of inviting Hamas and Hezbollah to be part of a PEACE process through parliament in 2009. Why is that so bad?

 

Chris Williamson was absolutely right, the party has taken a lot of criticism on what evidence? Some people don't like the fact that a leader of a major political party has the opinion that some of Israel's policies are bad, rather than just blindly accepting them as America do. if criticism of Israel makes you anti-Semitic, why doesn't criticism of Saudi Arabia make you Islamophobic?

 

All people seem to want are good old character assassinations in their favourite cheap right wing tabloid, and stories about how Corbyn didn't sing the national anthem, or how his remembrance poppy wasn't big enough.

Agree with you on poppy/national anthem stuff. Irrelevant. 

 

First point - Never said he was, but company you keep etc. If Boris suddenly started turning at meetings with Tommy Robinson he'd have questions to anwer. 

 

Second point - He did - if he didn't who are the "others" he speaks of in this article?

 

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-98de-palestine-united-1

 

Third point - Hizbollah doesn't have any commitment to a peaceful solution and never has - although if this genuinely was in the interest of peace, who did he speak to from the Israeli side?

[Nick]

Another example of Boris making up shit for his own political gain in his Telegraph column.

 

The paper argued in his defence that he should be able to make sweeping generalisations and that the column has comedic contextual undertones....

 

How do we know when he's just on a roll making shit up and when we should listen to him as a competent informed member of parliament?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/12/daily-telegraph-forced-correct-false-brexit-claim-boris-johnson

 

[simFox]

I didn't vote leave based on the bus slogan. I voted leave because I didn't believe a word of project fear. Biggest pack of lies i'd ever heard.

[simFox]

Anyway, sturgeon looks set to get brexit done for us. At least certainly for Scotland.. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/29/scotland-publishes-second-independence-referendum-bill

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, simFox said:

I didn't vote leave based on the bus slogan. I voted leave because I didn't believe a word of project fear. Biggest pack of lies i'd ever heard.

 

[leicsmac]

Something a little different:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/if-i-disappear-chinese-students-make-farewell-messages-amid-crackdowns-over-labor-activism-/2019/05/25/6fc949c0-727d-11e9-9331-30bc5836f48e_story.html

 

China is a powerhouse, but there's so much authoritarian fvcked-up there it's difficult to know where to start.

[MC Prussian]

19 hours ago, FIF said:

I checked for you today.

 

Young people from 18 to 35 voted green - they have the environment on their minds. The over 60's stayed with the classic parties. Only the 35-59 age range moved towards Le Pen and her friends.

 

This backs up everything I see in real life too.

 

Furthermore Urban areas don't vote NF, it's the rural areas that do - as one would expect.

That's only based on the results of the recent European Parliament elections, correct?

 

As much as the rise of the Greens in Europe is impressive, they have to deliver on their promises now and I'm intrigued to see what they do and how they do it.

The increase in votes for the FN/RN amongst youngsters on all parliamentary levels in France should be reason for reflection, because the young voters today are the decision-makers of tomorrow. And the percentages they get are... let's say... worrying to say the least.

[Lionator]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

All due respect, you are looking at this through the eyes of somebody who voted Remain. To understand it you need to put yourself completely into the mindset of somebody who voted Brexit. 

 

Many many leave voters now couldn't care less what a manifesto says as it's not worth the paper it is written on.  Bigger things are at stake, they are seeing the biggest mandate in British political history being systematically destroyed. When that is happening your average promise on a leaflet from an MP is an ant compared to an elephant.

 

I'm amazed how many people (and from personal experience this is exclusively Remainers, not right or left as I've had the opinion Tories as well) just think this is going to blow over and in a GE all votes just return to the main parties, it's wishful thinking - we are in completely different territory here than we have been. 

 

The Brexit party are now only a 6/1 chance to win the most seats at an actual GE and they'll be about joint favourites if we see a reversal of the decision taken to leave - if people genuinely think leavers won't vote them because they don't write a manifesto (which they will anyway) or because they are sharing an NHS quote from Farage from a decade ago they are in the same sort of deluded state the 2017 Tories were on Corbyn.

Well I voted to remain however, the majority of my family are hard leavers and voted for the brexit party last week. They're not the brightest bunch but then I may be accused of sneering if I say that. They think it's simple and we should be gone and they will vote for the Brexit party if an election is called, they cannot fathom why it hasn't happened. The moment it comes up and I explain the complications, they're not willing to engage in conversation. Which I think brings it all back full circle that this should never have been a public vote in the first place and that was the biggest mistake in this whole fiasco.   

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

That's only based on the results of the recent European Parliament elections, correct?

 

As much as the rise of the Greens in Europe is impressive, they have to deliver on their promises now and I'm intrigued to see what they do and how they do it.

The increase in votes for the FN/RN amongst youngsters on all parliamentary levels in France should be reason for reflection, because the young voters today are the decision-makers of tomorrow. And the percentages they get are... let's say... worrying to say the least.

I don't know if you need me to repeat it but the youngsters are all about climate problems and green issues nowadays in France. They are not voting for Le Pen and the Front. They are worried about the future of the planet, they are not anti-foreigner or anti-LGBTQ.

[Stadt]

45 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Something a little different:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/if-i-disappear-chinese-students-make-farewell-messages-amid-crackdowns-over-labor-activism-/2019/05/25/6fc949c0-727d-11e9-9331-30bc5836f48e_story.html

 

China is a powerhouse, but there's so much authoritarian fvcked-up there it's difficult to know where to start.

Long term China are a much scarier proposition than Russia 

[The Horse's Mouth]

I do actually hope it's Boris, whatever gets closer to leaving is what we need right now it's gone on far too long