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[Jimothy]

Just now, simFox said:

Campaigns cost money. A long campaign isn't necessary and is destructive to other issues. There was nothing wrong with the first referendum unless you're a remainer.

Theres a lot wrong with the first referendum, it's funny how you can ignore it when you're getting what you want.....not that anyones actually sure what that is still.

[What the Fuchs?]

Just now, Facecloth said:

Theres a lot wrong with the first referendum, it's funny how you can ignore it when you're getting what you want.....not that anyones actually sure what that is still.

It’s funny how everyone talks as if it was a massive majority wanted it - 48% of people didn’t vote for it. And I guarantee you remain would have trounced leave if they had voted again a day after, lots of idiots like my dad doing protest votes and then regretting it afterwards.

[String fellow]

The first referendum on whether to stay in Europe was in 1975.

[Strokes]

13 minutes ago, String fellow said:

The first referendum on whether to stay in Europe was in 1975.

The next one should be due in 2057 then.

[davieG]

13 minutes ago, String fellow said:

The first referendum on whether to stay in the Common Market was in 1975.

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

[BlueSi13]

52 minutes ago, What the Fuchs? said:

It’s funny how everyone talks as if it was a massive majority wanted it - 48% of people didn’t vote for it. And I guarantee you remain would have trounced leave if they had voted again a day after, lots of idiots like my dad doing protest votes and then regretting it afterwards.

Really?

 

So why have opinion polls barely moved in the three years since the vote?  Why has the Brexit Party just won 9 out of 12 regions in a national vote?

[simFox]

26 minutes ago, davieG said:

 

Little did they know it would turn into the political union it is becoming today.

[String fellow]

53 minutes ago, davieG said:

 

The EEC evolved over time, eventually becoming the EU in 1993 following ratification of the Maastricht Treaty. But essentially it's the same organisation, so I stick by my original statement.

[deep blue]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Does it matter if it is £350m or £270m? Vast amount of money

They clearly thought it would make a difference when they put it on the bus, otherwise they would have put the true figure on.

 

You can't argue whether it did actually make a difference. The relevant point is that there was a clear intention to deceive.

[deep blue]

1 hour ago, BlueSi13 said:

Really?

 

So why have opinion polls barely moved in the three years since the vote?  Why has the Brexit Party just won 9 out of 12 regions in a national vote?

Because the remain vote was split over 4 parties.

[deep blue]

13 minutes ago, deep blue said:

They clearly thought it would make a difference when they put it on the bus, otherwise they would have put the true figure on.

 

You can't argue whether it did actually make a difference. The relevant point is that there was a clear intention to deceive.

And yes, it does matter that false figures were deliberately used to deceive the voters.

 

Leavers like to bang on about democracy after the referendum, but don't like to accept that democracy was subverted at the very start by the persistant lies of the various leave groups during the campaign.

[Leicester_Loyal]

22 minutes ago, deep blue said:

And yes, it does matter that false figures were deliberately used to deceive the voters. 

 

Leavers like to bang on about democracy after the referendum, but don't like to accept that democracy was subverted at the very start by the persistant lies of the various leave groups during the campaign. 

Both groups lied, as has been stated millions of times on here. I genuinely can't believe I'm still having to state this argument 3 years on.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/14/osborne-predicts-30bn-hole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4419490/Only-two-Osborne-s-19-Brexit-forecasts-come-true.html

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britain-to-enter-recession-with-500000-uk-jobs-lost-if-it-left-eu-new-treasury-analysis-shows

 

Any thoughts? I thought I'd give a variety of sources, before someone claims I'm biased.

[urban.spaceman]

4 hours ago, simFox said:

Campaigns cost money. A long campaign isn't necessary and is destructive to other issues. There was nothing wrong with the first referendum unless you're a remainer.

A long campaign, or in reality a long debating process, is absolutely necessary for something of this magnitude, as is evidenced by the debating of the last three years. I was out of the country when Cameron announced the date - and ended up in Botswana at the time of the vote. I was given no prior notice and so wasn’t able to arrange a postal or proxy vote beforehand. 

 

He didn’t have to call one with such short notice. Even just a year might have sufficed. But his arrogance has led us down a very dark path which could end up being catastrophic to our democracy if we don’t leave. 

[Buce]

[Legend_in_blue]

7 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Both groups lied, as has been stated millions of times on here. I genuinely can't believe I'm still having to state this argument 3 years on.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/14/osborne-predicts-30bn-hole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4419490/Only-two-Osborne-s-19-Brexit-forecasts-come-true.html

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britain-to-enter-recession-with-500000-uk-jobs-lost-if-it-left-eu-new-treasury-analysis-shows

 

Any thoughts? I thought I'd give a variety of sources, before someone claims I'm biased.

The majority of these untruths are based on forecasts/projections.

 

The lies spread around by the leave campaign took the truth and exaggerated it to suit their agenda.

 

Which is worse?

[Grebfromgrebland]

Well this whole project fear is taking effect. It's not going to happen overnight but slowly like a cancer. 

 

It amazes me when when people say nothing has changed when truth is the country is already massively damaged.

 

The remain campaign didn't lie but maybe got the time line wrong. 

 

A TRILLION pounds of investment had left the country by end of march.

 

Countless companies have closed down already while many more just wait before deciding to shut down. 

 

The NHS is on its knees with a massive need for doctors and nurses and all support staff. Before we could just steal them from other countries but now they're not welcome here and they don't want to come to a xenophobic country. 

 

Every single trade deal that we negotiate after brexit WILL BE WORSE THAN WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE. So yes we can renegotiate but we'll never get as good a deal as what we have. This is a fact. 

 

The arch brexiteers currently in the Tory party want privatise the NHS.

 

As the pound tanks all the UK will be for sale at the mercy of hedge funds who will asset strip then run businesses that are household names be run into the ground. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

I knew that would be a reply to my post. 'Well they both told lies, but the leave sides lies were worse' There's literally no point debating on here, people have their agendas and no-one will change their mind (hence why another referendum would be very similar to the first).

 

As for Grebs post, half of what you just stated is a downright lie. We're still employing people from oversees where needed, I should know, I've got a family member who's involved in the NHS and works with those people on a daily basis. What companies have closed down? Plenty of ones who were already in a dire state and then others who have decided to blame it on Brexit. Maybe some have closed actually due to Brexit, but we haven't even left yet? So maybe it's the uncertainty that's caused the issue?

 

This will be my last post on this thread, I've been debating in here for 3 years with pretty much the same people. How many of us have changed our minds on the Brexit situation? 0. We'll still vote the same way if we had to vote again.

 

See you on the other Brexit side, whatever the outcome may be!

 

 

[davieG]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48446811

 

Young adults benefit from better pay

 

The proportion of low-paid workers in Britain has fallen to its lowest level since 1980, a think tank has said, with young adults particularly benefitting.

The number of low-paid workers dropped by 200,000 last year, with 120,000 of them aged between 21 and 30, the Resolution Foundation said.

It said the introduction of the National Living Wage had "significantly" reduced low pay.

It could be eliminated altogether by the mid-2020s, research suggested.

"The chancellor and the Labour Party have both announced ambitious plans for its future, either of which would result in the UK having one of the highest minimum wage rates in the world," the report said.

 

The charity the Living Wage Foundation says the wage level needed to "meet the costs of living" is £9 an hour across the UK and £10.55 an hour in London.

Low pay is considered to be hourly pay below two-thirds of the median average across the country. This is the equivalent of £8.52 an hour.

The National Living Wage is lower than this, but the Resolution Foundation said the NLW had a beneficial knock-on effect to other low-paid workers.

The Foundation said that, in 2018, there were 4.7 million employees on low pay, 17.2% of the total. This was the lowest proportion since 1980, and the lowest number since 1997.

"Clearly, the UK still has a significant low pay problem, but it is a problem that is getting smaller after many years of stubbornly refusing to do so," the report said.

Some 2.8 million (60%) of the 4.7 million low-paid employees in 2018 were women. Owing to the fact they were more likely to be low-paid than men, they saw a greater benefit from the shift to better pay. The number of low-paid women fell by 133,000 between 2017 and 2018.

 

 

[Countryfox]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

He needs to hire Vazs lawyer ...   he’ll soon get him off ...   just say he’s too ill to stand trial ..  and then just forget about it ! 

 

Anyway ..   I’m off to see my solicitor this morning ...   Tony Blair and your weapons of mass destruction ...   I’m coming for you !! ...   Toneeee Blair ...    I’m coming for you ! ...    

[simFox]

4 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

He needs to hire Vazs lawyer ...   he’ll soon get him off ...   just say he’s too ill to stand trial ..  and then just forget about it ! 

 

Anyway ..   I’m off to see my solicitor this morning ...   Tony Blair and your weapons of mass destruction ...   I’m coming for you !! ...   Toneeee Blair ...    I’m coming for you ! ...    

Might be a few wealthy Arabs willing to crowd fund that one too..

[Grebfromgrebland]

2 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I knew that would be a reply to my post. 'Well they both told lies, but the leave sides lies were worse' There's literally no point debating on here, people have their agendas and no-one will change their mind (hence why another referendum would be very similar to the first).

 

As for Grebs post, half of what you just stated is a downright lie. We're still employing people from oversees where needed, I should know, I've got a family member who's involved in the NHS and works with those people on a daily basis. What companies have closed down? Plenty of ones who were already in a dire state and then others who have decided to blame it on Brexit. Maybe some have closed actually due to Brexit, but we haven't even left yet? So maybe it's the uncertainty that's caused the issue?

 

This will be my last post on this thread, I've been debating in here for 3 years with pretty much the same people. How many of us have changed our minds on the Brexit situation? 0. We'll still vote the same way if we had to vote again.

 

See you on the other Brexit side, whatever the outcome may be!

 

 

I guess we're both entrenched in our views on this area and we all know people and facts to backup our respective points.

 

Whatever the outcome I hope the country is truly better off and we don't end up split and hateful.  

 

Brexit means a lot more than economics to non white people and I hope those fears aren't aren't made reality when we do brexit.

[Nick]

Car production 45% down due to Brexit apparently.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48451024

[Strokes]

39 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Car production 45% down due to Brexit apparently.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48451024

Great news for the environment 

[Innovindil]

42 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Car production 45% down due to Brexit apparently.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48451024

 

The stoppages in the factories have exacerbated a continuing slow down in the global car industry caused by the trade tensions between the US and China, uncertainties over the arrival of electric and self driving cars, and tougher environmental controls after the VW emissions scandal.

 

Other side of the coin. Forecast to be 10% lower over the course of the year since these slow downs have been intentionally brought forward from the summer months. 

 

10% (forecast) is genuinely a hell of a lot better than I expected considering the current shambles. I'd expect that to be an optimistic assessment if we're still ****ing around come October though.