selling mentality

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Fox85 said:

I generally believe that people think we are skint and we need to sell in order to buy.

In fairness if we had a lot of money to spent we would of singed Tielemans by now maybe 2 others 

Nobody thinks we are skint, but until the owners show otherwise and invest, I don’t think we have the money to buy what we need to push in quickly.

 

I do think we either need some exceptional scouting to pick up a top class CM, a top class winger and a very good backup striker, within what would be our usual budget range of £20-£45m (for all three). 

 

Or or we sell an asset that we don’t think would be massively detrimental to lose, if we strengthened the other areas with what we need, buying from a completely different bracket of player.

 

If the option is budget of £35m or budget of £100m with the sale of Maguire. Which do you think holds the best probability of improving the team?

 

Thats the decision those at the top might need to make, IF the budget isn’t there. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

If our players are sold for very good fees and we make excellent signings, then I'm not fussed.

 

Selling your best players isn't bad if you can replace like for like and have some left over.

[Woodsey1727]

We need to keep our best players otherwise we will end up like Southampton, they have never been the same after, yes sell one at a time though but not all in one window 

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, Woodsey1727 said:

We need to keep our best players otherwise we will end up like Southampton, they have never been the same after, yes sell one at a time though but not all in one window 

They sold their entire team over three windows. That’s not happening here.

[sylofox]

Ffs are people not getting fed up with this argument? 

 

Yes some think we may need to sell to spend and improve other areas of the squad. 

 

On the other side some think we are mega rich and we have hundreds of £m to pay for the training ground. She'll out on 5/6 World class players and ground expansion. 

 

Every fecking thread Ffs yet no one will win this fight as only Top can give the answers. 

[Fox85]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

and you know the details of our transfer policy and where we are on the incoming deals ????.

 

I realise that this is a place for discussion and opinions but there is often so little evidence for things posted ......

 

i dont recall this type of discussion past few summers ...... can’t we just discuss who we want to buy rather than who we want to sell (of our best players) ??

 

in case anyone has been asleep for the  past few weeks ......... we can nett spend 100 m if we want to ......I’m fairly certain that Rodgers wouldn’t have come here unless he was given assurances on available finances (and we wouldn’t have spent 9m to get him here if we were going to undermine him within three months). 

 

So why not just see how the next two months pans out ..... it’s a big market place and targets will come and go in the media although they may not in reality - it could be that our targets are all sorted and it’s just about getting the i’s dotted and the t’s crossed .......making negative assumptions is hardly going to help the atmosphere on the forum ........

I know that if we really wanted someone and had the money to spend and if the reports of him loving his time when he was with us the deal would of been completed already.

 

 

[st albans fox]

21 minutes ago, Fox85 said:

I know that if we really wanted someone and had the money to spend and if the reports of him loving his time when he was with us the deal would of been completed already.

 

 

Ok

[HighPeakFox]

I'm wondering how many threads of this ilk we'll get to wade through this summer. I don't think there are many, if any, that want to flog all the goodies off. 

[VIKTOR-LE5]

Selling club? we cant't even git rid of Slimani, ffs.

[Guest foxestalkisfullofidiots]

Think a lot of people think the money goes in their own pocket

[coolhandfox]

4 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

It is fine when its used to fund players that are needed I agree.

 

But I will give you this example.

 

Lets say we want to buy 3 players, combined cost 70 million.

 

We sell maguire for 80 million, it gets us all 3 players one of them been tielemans.

 

Then a week later a 100 million offer comes in for chilwell and a 80 million offer for maddison.  We dont need the money as we already got the players we wanted, in your view sell those 2 players or keep?

I would be very surprised to see us sell anymore than one of Maddison, Chilwell or Maguire.

 

No one is going to offer that price for those players.

 

 

[Yes N'Didi]

16 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

For everyone except Man City, football is about wheeling and dealing.

Edited 2 June 2019 by Yes N'Didi

[norwichfox]

clearly we are working to the highly successful Southampton model, all we need now is a French manager that's good with young players....Wembley here we come...

[themightyfin]

One thing most people seem to forget when selling players Is the tax man does not go away. Big money =Big tax. Legal fees. Agents fees. % Goes to Hull. It all adds up. 

Plus a transfer is almost always paid in instalments. 

If we sell Maguire like a lot of people are saying for £80m then we don't get £80m.

Saying we can sell him to fund 3/4 good players still does not add up I'm afraid. 

Football manager this is not. 

[AjcW]

18 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

One thing most people seem to forget when selling players Is the tax man does not go away. Big money =Big tax. Legal fees. Agents fees. % Goes to Hull. It all adds up. 

Plus a transfer is almost always paid in instalments. 

If we sell Maguire like a lot of people are saying for £80m then we don't get £80m.

Saying we can sell him to fund 3/4 good players still does not add up I'm afraid. 

Football manager this is not. 

Absolutely this. I can’t recommend “done deal” enough as a read for anyone who wants to understand transfers a little more! 

[sylofox]

52 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

One thing most people seem to forget when selling players Is the tax man does not go away. Big money =Big tax. Legal fees. Agents fees. % Goes to Hull. It all adds up. 

Plus a transfer is almost always paid in instalments. 

If we sell Maguire like a lot of people are saying for £80m then we don't get £80m.

Saying we can sell him to fund 3/4 good players still does not add up I'm afraid. 

Football manager this is not. 

A big money deal does not = big tax. Only a trading profit = tax. Yes the fees and the Hull %. But tax is only payed on profit. So if our financial year trading shows a £1m profit we pay tax on £1m.

 

So if we sell and spend the money we pay no tax. 

Edited 2 June 2019 by sylofox
Typo

[themightyfin]

9 minutes ago, sylofox said:

A big money deal does not = big tax. Only a trading profit = tax. Yes the fees and the Hull %. But tax is only payed on profit. So if our financial year trading shows a £1m profit we pay tax on £1m.

 

So if we sell and spend the money we pay no tax. 

Tax was ment in a defining way to describe all the costs ect. Not actual tax. 

[sylofox]

5 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Tax was ment in a defining way to describe all the costs ect. Not actual tax. 

But its not a cost if you don't pay it. 

We would also need more than the sale of one player to pay tax anyway. The training ground and ground expansion will mean we don't turn a profit for at least a couple of years. 

[themightyfin]

2 minutes ago, sylofox said:

But its not a cost if you don't pay it. 

We would also need more than the sale of one player to pay tax anyway. The training ground and ground expansion will mean we don't turn a profit for at least a couple of years. 

Read what I just said. 

 

I said I ment 'Tax' as a defining word to bracket all the other costs together. 

 

I didn't mean 'actual tax' 

[sylofox]

19 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Read what I just said. 

 

I said I ment 'Tax' as a defining word to bracket all the other costs together. 

 

I didn't mean 'actual tax' 

So why not use expenses. 

[themightyfin]

Just now, sylofox said:

So why not use expenses. 

OK expenses. I bow to your superior use of our English language. 

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, themightyfin said:

One thing most people seem to forget when selling players Is the tax man does not go away. Big money =Big tax. Legal fees. Agents fees. % Goes to Hull. It all adds up. 

Plus a transfer is almost always paid in instalments. 

If we sell Maguire like a lot of people are saying for £80m then we don't get £80m.

Saying we can sell him to fund 3/4 good players still does not add up I'm afraid. 

Football manager this is not. 

I’m sure people are aware of this. But if the budget is £30m and after the sale it’s £80m (£50m return). That funds the players we need.

 

We also pay in instalments as well as receiving. So that doesn’t really matter.

[Mike Oxlong]

It was a bit preachy 

 

and wrong  

[Chrysalis]

I think this thread has not gone quite the direction I intended.

 

It was meant to address all the "snap their hands off" type posts when discussing large bids for our players.  Selling to buy was not the question, but rather selling to put cash in the bank sitting doing nothing.

 

I think the vast majority of us have no issue with selling maguire to get tielemans and other key additions (assuming the scouting is decent, which it probably wont be 100%).  

 

So by wheeling and dealing i meant, you selling the player purely for cash profit (not to fund needed additions), but then would need to spend some of the proceeds to replace that player (or using another player already available and just hoping is good enough).  With whatever is leftover been the profit.

[urban fox]

On 02/06/2019 at 11:16, sylofox said:

But its not a cost if you don't pay it. 

We would also need more than the sale of one player to pay tax anyway. The training ground and ground expansion will mean we don't turn a profit for at least a couple of years. 

Doesn’t quite work like that either if being pedantic. The ground expansion and training complex would be classed as assets and therefore have a value which would be written down against the cost of construction meaning that only a small amount of the cost would be allowable against tax. Also if property values increase then so does the value of the asset therefore capital gains tax may apply.

 

i am not sure on this but I also think that players are assets and therefore buying and selling is not part of the trading profit and loss account and would be taxed separately under different rules. Ie gains/losses in the transfer market are taxed separately from trading profits