Dunk??!!

[murphy]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

For all his passing ability and his ability to get up the pitch, I'm not sure I remember us directly reaping the benefits all that often.

It might be that we reap the benefits in the following phases of play rather than straight from a Maguire run.  What it does do, without question, is gain territory, taking us from defence into attack.  If we haven't reaped the rewards from that, it is more an indictment of our forwards than it is of Maguire.  

[Dan LCFC]

24 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Classic case of us wanting to rip off Man Utd for a Maguire fee whilst simultaneously complaining about Brighton wanting to rip us off on a fee for Dunk.

And this is quite simply how we get better - fleece others, then avoid being fleeced ourselves.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

The classic example of a better player from abroad for less money would be Diop who West Ham signed last summer for circa £20m.  If you have faith in your scouting system and are succession planning properly then you don't have to resort to paying way over the odds to secure run of the mill EPL centre backs such as Dunk. 

 

Leicester always seem to be well run and progressive in terms of scouting and recruitment so there is no reason why signing someone from abroad should be considered such a greater risk, particularly as this approach has served the club very well in the past.

 

Again using the West Ham example, they signed two superb players who vastly enhanced their squad in the exact positions Leicester are trying to strengthen for circa £50m combined in Diop and Anderson.  If Leicester can be on the ball similarly with their transfer dealings this summer that may just be the difference in pulling ahead of the rest of the chasing pack and breaking the top 6.  

 

Conversely you could just spend pretty much the same amount of money as it cost to get Diop and Anderson on Dunk.  For the fees being quoted and by the time Hull get their slice it wouldn't be far off a straight swap in terms of Dunk for Maguire when you look at the net profit on the respective deals and that for me would be a very poor piece of business.

Edited 15 July 2019 by henrik_62

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

And this is quite simply how we get better - fleece others, then avoid being fleeced ourselves.

This is very true. It adds risk, but the benefits are obviously improved. Imagine going for a european prospect instead, say Tah or Upacameno - obvious upsides, but it comes with risk (May not adapt to the EPL, may not settle, language, etc)

Edited 15 July 2019 by Dahnsouff

[Babylon]

8 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

The classic example of a better player from abroad for less money would be Diop who West Ham signed last summer for circa £20m.  If you have faith in your scouting system and are succession planning properly then you don't have to resort to paying way over the odds to secure run of the mill EPL centre backs such as Dunk. 

 

Leicester always seem to be well run and progressive in terms of scouting or recruitment so there is no reason why signing someone from abroad should be considered such a greater risk, particularly as this approach has served the club very well in the past.

 

Again using the West Ham example, they signed two superb players who vastly enhanced their squad in the exact positions Leicester are trying to strengthen for circa £50m combined in Diop and Anderson.  If Leicester can be on the ball similarly with their transfer dealings this summer that may just be the difference in pulling ahead of the rest of the chasing pack and breaking the top 6.  

 

Conversely you could just spend pretty much the same amount of money as it cost to get Diop and Anderson on Dunk.  For the fees being quoted and by the time Hull get their slice it wouldn't be far off a straight swap in terms of Dunk for Maguire when you look at the net profit on the respective deals and that for me would be a very poor piece of business.

Us and West have have spunked endless amounts of money on foreign dross though. It's easy to pick out Diop, or Ricardo. But for every one of them there is a Slimani, Silva, Iborra, Mendy. As I said it's about risk / reward. Get a foreign signing right and you get a bargain really, as they are likely to double or tripple their value. But as per my examples, we've mucked up so often looking for them if you end up buying two or three players to get that one.

 

You have to take view on the squad you have, the other types of signings you are making etc and weigh up what you need there and then and whether a riskier signing is right or whether the more solid option is what you need.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

Us and West have have spunked endless amounts of money on foreign dross though. It's easy to pick out Diop, or Ricardo. But for every one of them there is a Slimani, Silva, Iborra, Mendy. As I said it's about risk / reward. Get a foreign signing right and you get a bargain really, as they are likely to double or tripple their value. But as per my examples, we've mucked up so often looking for them if you end up buying two or three players to get that one.

 

You have to take view on the squad you have, the other types of signings you are making etc and weigh up what you need there and then and whether a riskier signing is right or whether the more solid option is what you need.

I get all that, ultimately every signing is a risk, there are plenty of EPL to EPL transfers for big money that have been disasterous also.

 

The general point is though that £45-50m for someone like Dunk, who is inferior to the guy he's replacing wouldn't be a wise move.

[Crispin LA]

Man U are desperate to sign Maguire, we aren't desperate to sign Dunk. 

Man U can afford to spend 50m on players at anytime, we aren't loaded like them and aren't going to have this amount of money every transfer window. 

[kingfox]

3 hours ago, Rusko187 said:

One thing we will never truly know is whether we choose to bring in a domestically proven CB to replace Maguire or not, if we fork out 40-50m on a CB with Prem experience it could be the difference of 6th to 7th place. 

As mentioned several times over, this is the year to break the top 6 with at least 3 teams walking wounded. If the club see this as the opportunity and it gambles on a CB then I think the club has to gamble and go for it.

Spot on.

 

Exactly what I've been saying but you've put it better.

 

We're a team with ambitions for the top six, if we lose Maguire then lump all our hopes on two inexperienced players in Soyuncu and Benkovic it could seriously backfire.

 

We as fans knew we signed them for the future, Benkovic especially, we had zero clue who he was when we signed him.

 

The reason why Dunk has been linked is because he is a proven Premier League player, tonnes of experience and could even be looked upon as a potential captain for us. The guy has been linked with Arsenal, yet our fans don't want him because he'll cost more than Tielemans, well the Premier League market is inflated, especially when English teams try and sell to English teams.

 

Regardless if it's Dunk, Tarkowski, Lascelles or Ake you'd be looking in the region of £40 million.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

2 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Spot on.

 

Exactly what I've been saying but you've put it better.

 

We're a team with ambitions for the top six, if we lose Maguire then lump all our hopes on two inexperienced players in Soyuncu and Benkovic it could seriously backfire.

 

We as fans knew we signed them for the future, Benkovic especially, we had zero clue who he was when we signed him.

 

The reason why Dunk has been linked is because he is a proven Premier League player, tonnes of experience and could even be looked upon as a potential captain for us. The guy has been linked with Arsenal, yet our fans don't want him because he'll cost more than Tielemans, well the Premier League market is inflated, especially when English teams try and sell to English teams.

 

Regardless if it's Dunk, Tarkowski, Lascelles or Ake you'd be looking in the region of £40 million.

Think that's the point, someone like Ake would be a far better use of the money than Dunk, already a better player, has far more improvement in him, already a fully fledged international despite being much younger and when the time does come you'd at least get your money back or more likely get more than what you originally paid for him.

[murphy]

44 minutes ago, Crispin LA said:

Man U are desperate to sign Maguire, we aren't desperate to sign Dunk. 

Man U can afford to spend 50m on players at anytime, we aren't loaded like them and aren't going to have this amount of money every transfer window. 

We should just suggest to Man U that they sign Dunk.

 

Problem solved.

 

 

 

Edited 15 July 2019 by murphy

[murphy]

57 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

The classic example of a better player from abroad for less money would be Diop who West Ham signed last summer for circa £20m.  If you have faith in your scouting system and are succession planning properly then you don't have to resort to paying way over the odds to secure run of the mill EPL centre backs such as Dunk. 

 

Leicester always seem to be well run and progressive in terms of scouting and recruitment so there is no reason why signing someone from abroad should be considered such a greater risk, particularly as this approach has served the club very well in the past.

 

Again using the West Ham example, they signed two superb players who vastly enhanced their squad in the exact positions Leicester are trying to strengthen for circa £50m combined in Diop and Anderson.  If Leicester can be on the ball similarly with their transfer dealings this summer that may just be the difference in pulling ahead of the rest of the chasing pack and breaking the top 6.  

 

Conversely you could just spend pretty much the same amount of money as it cost to get Diop and Anderson on Dunk.  For the fees being quoted and by the time Hull get their slice it wouldn't be far off a straight swap in terms of Dunk for Maguire when you look at the net profit on the respective deals and that for me would be a very poor piece of business.

I thought that Anderson cost £49m?

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 minute ago, murphy said:

I thought that Anderson cost £49m?

£35m buddy

[murphy]

1 minute ago, henrik_62 said:

£35m buddy

Dammit, that's only two Ghezzals and a Danny Ward. 

 

We  missed out on that one.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

Just now, murphy said:

Dammit, that's only two Ghezzals and a Danny Ward. 

 

We  missed out on that one.

Yeah think a lot of clubs will be kicking themselves after missing out on Anderson.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

24 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Think that's the point, someone like Ake would be a far better use of the money than Dunk, already a better player, has far more improvement in him, already a fully fledged international despite being much younger and when the time does come you'd at least get your money back or more likely get more than what you originally paid for him.

Ake isn’t that much better (if at all) than Dunk.  They’re all much of a muchness.  Seen them all play well and i’ve seen them all play dogshit.

 

If we’re losing Maguire we have to replace him as closely as possible in terms of ability, physicality and experience.

 

If you do a matrix scoring system, i’d imagine Dunk would come out on top.  Experienced at this level, a leader, good with the ball at his feet, good in the air, physically dominant (6ft 4 in height and not far off in width!!).

 

The price is high.  It’s really high but dont be scared by it.  The overall picture of the team with him in it would be more valuable than without.

[Crispin LA]

45 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Think that's the point, someone like Ake would be a far better use of the money than Dunk, already a better player, has far more improvement in him, already a fully fledged international despite being much younger and when the time does come you'd at least get your money back or more likely get more than what you originally paid for him.

Agree, everytime I seen Ake play he's been cut above the rest of the players at Bournemouth. Plus he's ex Chelsea, they always seem to get rid of their young players without giving them time to develop in the Premier league. And then they go on to other Premier league clubs and do rather good. 

Edited 15 July 2019 by Crispin LA

[Vince Vega]

11 minutes ago, Crispin LA said:

Agree, everytime I seen Ake play he's been at cut above the rest of the players at Bournemouth. Plus he's ex Chelsea, they always seem to get rid of their young players without giving them time to develop in the Premier league. And then they go on to other Premier league clubs and do rather good. 

Ake is smaller than Evans though.  We'd need a least one physical CB surely? 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

18 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Ake isn’t that much better (if at all) than Dunk.  They’re all much of a muchness.  Seen them all play well and i’ve seen them all play dogshit.

 

If we’re losing Maguire we have to replace him as closely as possible in terms of ability, physicality and experience.

 

If you do a matrix scoring system, i’d imagine Dunk would come out on top.  Experienced at this level, a leader, good with the ball at his feet, good in the air, physically dominant (6ft 4 in height and not far off in width!!).

 

The price is high.  It’s really high but dont be scared by it.  The overall picture of the team with him in it would be more valuable than without.

Again football is down to opinions but Ake is a far better player than Dunk imo and years younger also.

[Stephen Hughes]

Underwhelming if this happens

[Nicolo Barella]

2 hours ago, murphy said:

It might be that we reap the benefits in the following phases of play rather than straight from a Maguire run.  What it does do, without question, is gain territory, taking us from defence into attack.  If we haven't reaped the rewards from that, it is more an indictment of our forwards than it is of Maguire.  

This is true. However I also think Soyuncu has the ability to move it forward like Maguire. What Caglar probably doesn't have is that extra mile that allows him to score the winning goal from open play against Southampton for example. 

[Dave Fishwick]

9 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Again football is down to opinions but Ake is a far better player than Dunk imo and years younger also.

far better player but much less of a physical presence

[Realist Guy In The Room]

15 minutes ago, Vince Vega said:

Ake is smaller than Evans though.  We'd need a least one physical CB surely? 

People always underestimate the importance of a physical presence at the back.  Ake is under 6ft and whilst the league isn’t stacked out with Duncan Ferguson esque strikers, our weakness from set pieces isn’t going to improve by removing height and physicality from our defensive line.

[Vince Vega]

10 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

People always underestimate the importance of a physical presence at the back.  Ake is under 6ft and whilst the league isn’t stacked out with Duncan Ferguson esque strikers, our weakness from set pieces isn’t going to improve by removing height and physicality from our defensive line.

That is my concern too.  If we are going out there with two of Ake, Evans or Soyuncu (who aren't that much taller than Ake) I would be worried.  BTW I'm not saying Ake is a poor player.

[Tom12345]

Not worth 40-45 mil. 

[FoxinNotts]

38 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

People always underestimate the importance of a physical presence at the back.  Ake is under 6ft and whilst the league isn’t stacked out with Duncan Ferguson esque strikers, our weakness from set pieces isn’t going to improve by removing height and physicality from our defensive line.

Benkovic is a big lump. Get him fit, get him motivated, here’s your answer