Dunk??!!

[FoxinNotts]

Rather have Fabian Schar from Newcastle for half the price of Dunk

[Deeg67]

29 minutes ago, Ben. said:

Wes is that insurance policy - what would’ve been the point in signing a year extension if he wasn’t going to be involved. BR clearly thinks he still adds value to the squad. He was just as competent as Maguire was defensively last season if not more so - our defensive record was just as good with Evans/Morgan as with Evans/Maguire was it not. Although though we’re trying to evolve with our playing style and become more youthful he can still do a job when needed.

With Harry gone I want a better insurance policy than Wes, who's basically unplayable against any front 3 with pace.

[Shane]

9 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

Rather have Fabian Schar from Newcastle for half the price of Dunk

If for whatever reason we don’t give Soyuncu and Benkovic a chance, i’d take Schar over most options.

 

He is just as good defensively as Dunk & would surely cost less money.

 

Also imo Schar is probably at a similar level to Maguire at dribbling / bringing the ball out of defence. His youtube highlights:  

 

 

Honestly hope Benko and Soyuncu are given the opportunity, but yeah Schar would be a good move if we decide to go for a ‘PL proven’ player. 

Edited 16 July 2019 by Shane

[Ben.]

Find it hard believe we’re not going to give a chance to a young ball-playing CB we invested £19m in only last summer without even giving him a run in the team. Has he even played two games in a row yet since he’s been here? Yes, there were times when we did see him play where he had a couple bombscare moments but what young player doesn’t go through that? Look at Chilwell the season before last, the amount of criticism he received then last season grew into one of the best LB’s in the league and became England’s first choice. We can all see Soyuncu has ability, he just needs his chance.

 

If we’re not prepared to do that then maybe he does need to go out on loan to a lower end PL/high end Championship team for the season, but if that’s the case then that should’ve happened last season as it was virtually a season wasted for him.

Edited 16 July 2019 by Ben.

[kingfox]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Dunk would be a panic buy as we did our forward planning last summer to safeguard Maguire going with Benkovic and Soyuncu. £45m for a defender from a crap Prem team who is nearly 28 hardly screams a careful, shrewd and considered move does it? 

 

You seem to be basing all of this around the fact that Dunk has indispensible experience in this league that is essential for us and Benkovic and Soyuncu barely do. If that was the number one criteria all the time then the pool of players to choose from would be even smaller. Let's not make Dunk out to be a world beater here, if proven Prem experience is what you're after we should have gone for Craig Dawson for about £6m. Ake I could almost understand as he is still young and very classy, would cost around the same as Dunk. It's all opinions at the end of the day but I have to question what was the point in getting both Benkovic and Soyuncu if under all scenario's they were never going to be anything more than 4th and 5th choice.

 

Wasn't our plan to keep Maguire though? He did sign a new contract after all. Soyuncu and Benkovic were signed because we needed defensive reinforcements, regardless if Maguire left or not. And I'll say it again on what planet would Lewis Dunk be a panic buy? A sought after Premier League proven defender who has been linked with us and others for a while now doesn't scream panic buy. Let's not sign him because he's from a crap Prem team, Maguire came from a crap Prem team, so did Jonny Evans. Fans though get put off by the price tag, that's understandable but whether you're looking at Dunk, Tarkowski, Lascelles or Ake any Premier League team will probably have to fork out £40-50 million for them. 

 

Should have gone for Craig Dawson for £6 million  

 

And as I've just said to you in the Maguire thread, Benkovic and Soyuncu were signed for the future, they weren't signed to be first team regulars. You have two players there that will get their breakthrough at some point, I just wouldn't be surprised if it's not this season.

 

Look at it this way, we signed Benkovic and Soyuncu like Liverpool signed Joe Gomez, like Spurs signed Juan Foyth, like Arsenal signed Rob Holding. We signed them as potential first teamers for the future, and like with the three I've just mentioned, Gomez especially, he had to wait a couple of season's but now he's a Liverpool regular.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 hour ago, FoxinNotts said:

Rather have Fabian Schar from Newcastle for half the price of Dunk

That was the one signing Rodgers wanted last summer, he was available for £3m due to Deportivo being relegated however we couldn't compete on the wages with Newcastle and he went there, a shame as he had a great season for them.

[STUHILL]

People aren't really questioning Dunk's quality and what he could bring to the side, it's more to do with people rightly questioning spending £45-50 million on him and also having the highly rated Benkovic and Soyuncu waiting to step in. Just look how Chilwell flourished when backed and given a run of games. I see no reason why one or indeed both, Benkovic and Soyuncu can't do the same alongside our best CB last year in Evans. 

 

People forget, Maguire really had an indifferent season and it was Evans who was our best CB. Between Soyuncu and Benkovic, I think we will find a very solid pairing. Spending £45-50m on Dunk doesn't really make financial sense. It also inhibits Soyuncu and Benkovic, as well as sending a message to other clubs that we are willing to spend 45-50m on a player like Dunk, who is really only a £20-25m player!   

 

I know this season is seen as our best chance to break the top 6 and a good start is obviously important, but we shouldn't lose sight of what got us into this fantastic position, and that was by giving talented young players a run of games and backing them to deliver. Soyuncu and Benkovic both highly rated, should also be given that backing IMO. 

[SheppyFox]

Dunk vs HM last season stats anyone? Offensive and defensive stats, I don’t know how to find them but I’m curious.

[Meat and 2 veg]

12 minutes ago, SheppyFox said:

Dunk vs HM last season stats anyone? Offensive and defensive stats, I don’t know how to find them but I’m curious.

Not sure you can compare. The only stats that could be comparable are passes into the final 3rd etc. 

 

I can imagine dunks defensive stats will be solid, as would duffys. Dunk would have played deep with plenty of cover, this tactic made huth and Morgan look outstanding also. At Leicester he’d be starting next to Evans and he would be the aggressive passer and the one to progress the ball forward. Not sure how he’d cope with the space that we will have in behind our defence either..

[LinekersApples]

Dunk is very good.

 

You rarely get selected for your country unless you’re very good.

 

Anyone who is very good, playing alongside the excellent Jonny Evans (and he really is a class act) will improve. 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

5 minutes ago, LinekersApples said:

Dunk is very good.

 

You rarely get selected for your country unless you’re very good.

 

Anyone who is very good, playing alongside the excellent Jonny Evans (and he really is a class act) will improve. 

He has 1 cap and tbh England have capped a few very average players at CB in recent years.

 

For what it's worth I think Dunk is a fairly solid EPL centre back, he's not a bad player it's just that the money being spoke of makes him vastly overpriced and in addition to that not as good as the guy he is replacing.

 

Like a few have alluded to, the EPL market is bonkers but a wise strategy would be to leverage that when selling and look somewhere else when buying in search of greater value, good scouting and forward planning should mitigate the risk in this regard. Look at West Ham in this regard and the signings they have made over the last 12 months, some excellent pieces of business, players who would have cost 2-3 times as much if it was EPL to EPL business.

Edited 16 July 2019 by henrik_62

[FoxinNotts]

8 minutes ago, LinekersApples said:

Dunk is very good.

 

You rarely get selected for your country unless you’re very good.

 

Anyone who is very good, playing alongside the excellent Jonny Evans (and he really is a class act) will improve. 

He is good, I just think we can get better options for cheaper, to suit our current situation. 

 

I also don’t believe he is our main target 

[STUHILL]

4 minutes ago, LinekersApples said:

Dunk is very good.

 

You rarely get selected for your country unless you’re very good.

 

Anyone who is very good, playing alongside the excellent Jonny Evans (and he really is a class act) will improve. 

Is he £45-50m good though? Turns 28 this year and just 2 seasons in the Premier League with a smallish club i.e no big club has come in for him during this time. 

 

1 cap for England to cover the injured Tarkowski in a Friendly. Part of a very defensively set up Brighton for 2 seasons. 

 

If we didn't have the highly rated Benkovic and Soyuncu, and also the fee was £20-30m then absolutely makes sense but I think the huge fee coupled with Benko/Soyu, the transfer doesn't make that much sense IMO. 

 

Have you heard anything to confirm these rumours are true btw? Genuine interest? 

[ROB-THE-BLUE]

21 minutes ago, LinekersApples said:

Dunk is very good.

 

You rarely get selected for your country unless you’re very good.

 

Anyone who is very good, playing alongside the excellent Jonny Evans (and he really is a class act) will improve. 

Michael Ricketts got an England cap. 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 minute ago, ROB-THE-BLUE said:

Michael Ricketts got an England cap. 

Franny Jeffers too lol!

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, kingfox said:

Wasn't our plan to keep Maguire though? He did sign a new contract after all. Soyuncu and Benkovic were signed because we needed defensive reinforcements, regardless if Maguire left or not. And I'll say it again on what planet would Lewis Dunk be a panic buy? A sought after Premier League proven defender who has been linked with us and others for a while now doesn't scream panic buy. Let's not sign him because he's from a crap Prem team, Maguire came from a crap Prem team, so did Jonny Evans. Fans though get put off by the price tag, that's understandable but whether you're looking at Dunk, Tarkowski, Lascelles or Ake any Premier League team will probably have to fork out £40-50 million for them. 

 

Should have gone for Craig Dawson for £6 million  

 

And as I've just said to you in the Maguire thread, Benkovic and Soyuncu were signed for the future, they weren't signed to be first team regulars. You have two players there that will get their breakthrough at some point, I just wouldn't be surprised if it's not this season.

 

Look at it this way, we signed Benkovic and Soyuncu like Liverpool signed Joe Gomez, like Spurs signed Juan Foyth, like Arsenal signed Rob Holding. We signed them as potential first teamers for the future, and like with the three I've just mentioned, Gomez especially, he had to wait a couple of season's but now he's a Liverpool regular.

Soyuncu and Benkovic were signed as we were safeguarding a deadline day bid from Utd for Maguire. Maguire signed a new deal after the window had shut when it was clear he needed a pay increase to match his soaring reputation. When he first signed from Hull he was on less than 50k a week with us.

 

Our proven Prem experience has already been secured in Evans, since he has joined and established himself in our team our defence has improved. I am confident that with him as the calming assurance, Benkovic or Soyuncu would have every chance of excelling and backing up their reputation as highly rated young players. Dunk being linked with Arsenal but them not coming in for him is no different from Arsenal and Man City wanting Soyuncu last summer or Chelsea wanting Benkovic. 

 

When was the last time a player who has spent the majority of their career in lower leagues transferred at 27+ to a top 6 prem team and prospered? He's about hit his ceiling given the price tag, it's why it smacks of a panic buy or a stupid buy. The one I can think of is Sigurdsson but even he spent the majority of his career either in the Prem or in the Bundesliga and only an early part of their career at a lower level. Dunk is the equivalent of Wes Morgan when he came up with us and the thought of paying £45m for a likely above average defender is madness. Vardy is the only 27+ player in recent times who has gone berserk in his later years.

 

Maguire was 23 when he came up to the Prem, he was progressive in his career going through the leagues. I just worry that Dunk is nothing special for an aspiring top 6 team. 

 

Hahaha I was joking about Dawson, he's bang average but the supposed proven Prem experience is what's the main criteria here and he is ticking the same boxes as Dunk for an 8th of the price. 

 

There are many examples of us signing less proven players who were then expected to make an impact immediately... Ndidi, Maddison etc. I just don't accept Benkovic and Soyuncu should be behind in the pecking order to distinctly ordinary and honest players like Lewis Dunk.

[Ric Flair]

51 minutes ago, LinekersApples said:

Dunk is very good.

 

You rarely get selected for your country unless you’re very good.

 

Anyone who is very good, playing alongside the excellent Jonny Evans (and he really is a class act) will improve. 

Exactly, with Evan's playing either Benkovic or Soyuncu (both modern ball playing defenders) have every chance of prospering in the Prem. It's the ideal time.

[Nick]

Evans is usually a right sided CB as is Soyuncu, right? Which side does Benkovic normally play? I’m just wondering if we are looking for a left sided CB as Soyunco is long term replacement for Evans and Benkovic isn’t ready at this level... crazy I know but just askin.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

6 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Evans is usually a right sided CB as is Soyuncu, right? Which side does Benkovic normally play? I’m just wondering if we are looking for a left sided CB as Soyunco is long term replacement for Evans and Benkovic isn’t ready at this level... crazy I know but just askin.

Benkovic is right footed but played comfortably at LCB for us last season.

 

Your manager has said countless times when at Celtic and at Leicester that Benkovic is most certainly ready at EPL level.  

 

I'd also say based on all the players we've sold to the EPL in the last ten years or so he looks as ready as anyone we have sold who has gone on to do well in the EPL.

Edited 16 July 2019 by henrik_62

[KrefelderFox666]

Is Dunk a good player? Yes, I think we all agree. Is he PL proven? Yes, again, I think we all agree.

 

Is he worth £45m? In today's market, possibly. Should we pay that much for him? No.

 

We have two young players, one who has barely played for us and was with us last year. One who was on loan and is coming back. Why should we wait to bed them in, we have to start at some point. And this situation (Maguire leaving, if it does happen) means that the time has come. We have Evans as a starter and Wes as a back up. Have Evans and Benkovic/Soyuncu start and the other one on the bench with Wes. Wes has another year left and this period should be used to bed the young players in.

 

Obviously risky as we are two injured centre backs away from being thin on the ground but the young guys need to start playing in this team now. Imagine if we would have waited with Chilwell and Maddison, they've benefitted from game time and getting the manager's backing.

 

Don't blow the majority of Maguire's money on one player. As an Italian former Leicester manager once said, "Slowly, slowly."

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Really hope we don't blow more than half the Maguire money on Lewis Dunk, to echo what others have said he's a serviceable signing but nothing special and we have 2 able players waiting in the wings.

[Yes N'Didi]

1 hour ago, SheppyFox said:

Dunk vs HM last season stats anyone? Offensive and defensive stats, I don’t know how to find them but I’m curious.

Surprised me but Dunk is ahead of Maguire in nearly every area... Played 5 games more mind.

[Countryfox]

2 minutes ago, Yes N'Didi said:

Surprised me but Dunk is ahead of Maguire in nearly every area... Played 5 games more mind.

 

One slightly overrated, one slightly underrated, imo  ...      I'll let you work out which ones which ....   

[FoxinNotts]

6 minutes ago, Yes N'Didi said:

Surprised me but Dunk is ahead of Maguire in nearly every area... Played 5 games more mind.

These stats are surprising. I thought I read somewhere that slab head had the worlds greatest headed clearance stat, or something? Clearly not

[SheppyFox]

10 minutes ago, Yes N'Didi said:

Surprised me but Dunk is ahead of Maguire in nearly every area... Played 5 games more mind.

Thanks mate. Suddenly Dunk looks a good buy, I doubt it would be £45m upfront anyway. Get HM sold, get dunk in and let’s throw lots of pennies from what’s left over plus the limit of our FFP restriction at Ziyech! ??