Dunk??!!

[kingfox]

FFS, it's a shame our fans aren't looking towards the long term.

 

"Let's give Soyuncu or Benkovic a chance and see how it goes, there's always the January transfer window".

 

Rubbish, complete rubbish.

 

This season is a fantastic opportunity to break into the top six, we probably won't get a better chance. We seriously going to lump our hopes on two inexperienced centre backs, one of which played six Premier League games last season, the other zero. Those saying Soyuncu and Benkovic are good enough, where's the evidence? Soyuncu looked hit and miss last season, Benkovic was playing in a tinpot league and got injured numerous times.

 

Regardless if one gets a chance the other won't, the other might as well be shipped out on loan for the season where he is guaranteed first team football. 

 

It's a gamble that could seriously backfire, by January we could find ourselves mid table because the team has shipped too many goals. Then when January comes around, it's a hard window to buy in and I doubt someone like Brighton would sell Dunk to us at that point in the season.

 

If we sign Dunk or someone else as Maguire's replacement then Rodgers is not only thinking about this season, he is also thinking long term. This season we have a great opportunity of breaking into the top six, signing another Premier League experienced centre back could be the difference maker. Then for the long term we have ourselves perfectly set up for the next 5+ years with Dunk, Evans, Benkovic and Soyuncu as our CB options.

 

It all fits right into place, shame some of our fans don't see it from that perspective.

[Jaspa]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

What serious errors? Wasn't the penalty vs Huddersfield very harsh and the goal vs Fulham he slid in and it was taken around him? The mistakes Soyuncu did make such as crazy balls across the defence in games didn't lead to goals but could have obviously. Maguire made enough as well though, actually being a good defender seems secondary in this era.

He miscontrolled a pass and lunged in giving a pen to Hudders and against Fulham he slid off the pitch after committing too eagerly to a feint and so giving his man all the time to square it into the box - Both against sub-par opposition.

 

I'm glad fans have taken a shine to him, he's a talent but I don't think he's all there yet as a Premier League CB and that's been evident, both in his managers estimations & these moments in his own performances.

[Bluearmyfox28]

I have a feeling IF Benko is back to full fitness, that BR will give Soyuncu & Benko a run of pre season games before making his decision on a replacement. The u21 lads are due back in next week right? 

[Clever Fox]

It will be interesting to see who plays tomorrow night against Scunthorpe. and Saturday against Cambridge.

 

While not conclusive, It should provide some idea of the way BR might be thinking.

[Goober]

If he signs, happy days. Quality centre half and another leader in the side. By the looks of it Brighton fans are genuinely gutted at the prospect of him leaving and they’re not even arsed that they’d be getting 45m for him. Dunk would see us through this season with Evans, and would continue for years down the line after Evans finishes. Probably partnering with Soy or Benkovic in years to come.

 

If we stick with what we’ve got, fair play as well. We signed 2 of Europe’s most sought after young centre halves last summer and by all accounts they’re quality players. Benkovic has great reviews up north and I was more than happy with what I saw from Soyuncu in the brief time I got to see him. Maybe they’d be a bit raw but there’s no doubt they need games and I’d be more than happy for them to get them this season. Plus we’ll have a bit of spare change left over from the Maguire deal in this scenario.

 

Either way, I think the club will be absolutely fine. 

 

Maguire could also stay, but I can’t see that happening now. 

[knitro]

4 hours ago, kingfox said:

FFS, it's a shame our fans aren't looking towards the long term.

 

"Let's give Soyuncu or Benkovic a chance and see how it goes, there's always the January transfer window".

 

Rubbish, complete rubbish.

 

This season is a fantastic opportunity to break into the top six, we probably won't get a better chance. We seriously going to lump our hopes on two inexperienced centre backs, one of which played six Premier League games last season, the other zero. Those saying Soyuncu and Benkovic are good enough, where's the evidence? Soyuncu looked hit and miss last season, Benkovic was playing in a tinpot league and got injured numerous times.

 

Regardless if one gets a chance the other won't, the other might as well be shipped out on loan for the season where he is guaranteed first team football. 

 

It's a gamble that could seriously backfire, by January we could find ourselves mid table because the team has shipped too many goals. Then when January comes around, it's a hard window to buy in and I doubt someone like Brighton would sell Dunk to us at that point in the season.

 

If we sign Dunk or someone else as Maguire's replacement then Rodgers is not only thinking about this season, he is also thinking long term. This season we have a great opportunity of breaking into the top six, signing another Premier League experienced centre back could be the difference maker. Then for the long term we have ourselves perfectly set up for the next 5+ years with Dunk, Evans, Benkovic and Soyuncu as our CB options.

 

It all fits right into place, shame some of our fans don't see it from that perspective.

In your world looking to the long term is binning the two hot prospect CBs for frankly an overpriced panic buy? If Maguire goes you really think we'd ship one of them out on loan? Just go with Evans, Morgan plus 1 as senior team CBs?

 

"It's a gamble that could seriously backfire" so is signing Dunk when we have heir apparents already on the team. If they aren't going to be it - let's find out now and then unload them. This notion that Dunk is so much more superior relies a lot on one of the most loathsome media cliches bandied about - PL Proven, like they only play the sport in England and everyone else is just mystified by rain and shoulder barges. 

 

These guys are capable of stepping up - let's have some confidence in our scouting, development ability and see what they can do with a regular run in the squad and vote of confidence. what's the point of breaking into the top 6 if we did it on house of cards which collapses 18 months later because we lack the financial mobility to adapt and adjust to our changing needs, because we sunk 50M on a relegation candidate's CB (And to preempt Maguire came from Hull - okay, but would you bet regularly on demoted team's CBs turning into Internationals 2 years later?)

[Ben.]

Must admit I’m more keen on Tarkowski than Dunk. Think he’s more similar to Maguire in terms of ball-playing attributes which is the side of him that we’ll miss. Also think we could get him slighter cheaper and he’s a year younger.

Edited 16 July 2019 by Ben.

[mozartfox]

7 hours ago, Jaspa said:

He miscontrolled a pass and lunged in giving a pen to Hudders and against Fulham he slid off the pitch after committing too eagerly to a feint and so giving his man all the time to square it into the box - Both against sub-par opposition.

 

I'm glad fans have taken a shine to him, he's a talent but I don't think he's all there yet as a Premier League CB and that's been evident, both in his managers estimations & these moments in his own performances.

What about all the mistakes Wes makes?  Two red cards, being outjumped at Newport (below sub-par opposition).  Please give Caglar (and Benko) a break ffs -.

[Dahnsouff]

The post-Harry masterplan unfolds

1. Buy much vaunted attacking RW
2. Gray + cash (35m) to Bournemouth for Ake

 

Make it so

 

[volpeazzurro]

7 hours ago, kingfox said:

FFS, it's a shame our fans aren't looking towards the long term.

 

"Let's give Soyuncu or Benkovic a chance and see how it goes, there's always the January transfer window".

 

Rubbish, complete rubbish.

 

This season is a fantastic opportunity to break into the top six, we probably won't get a better chance. We seriously going to lump our hopes on two inexperienced centre backs, one of which played six Premier League games last season, the other zero. Those saying Soyuncu and Benkovic are good enough, where's the evidence? Soyuncu looked hit and miss last season, Benkovic was playing in a tinpot league and got injured numerous times.

 

Regardless if one gets a chance the other won't, the other might as well be shipped out on loan for the season where he is guaranteed first team football. 

 

It's a gamble that could seriously backfire, by January we could find ourselves mid table because the team has shipped too many goals. Then when January comes around, it's a hard window to buy in and I doubt someone like Brighton would sell Dunk to us at that point in the season.

 

If we sign Dunk or someone else as Maguire's replacement then Rodgers is not only thinking about this season, he is also thinking long term. This season we have a great opportunity of breaking into the top six, signing another Premier League experienced centre back could be the difference maker. Then for the long term we have ourselves perfectly set up for the next 5+ years with Dunk, Evans, Benkovic and Soyuncu as our CB options.

 

It all fits right into place, shame some of our fans don't see it from that perspective.

Or could it be that fans have different perspectives? None of them necessarily right,  just opinions. If Rodgers decided to run with what he's got, does that mean that despite his professional evaluation, he's wrong and you're right?

[ROB-THE-BLUE]

42 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

The post-Harry masterplan unfolds

1. Buy much vaunted attacking RW
2. Gray + cash (35m) to Bournemouth for Ake

 

Make it so

 

I'd take that. 

[Deeg67]

Just give me a "better than Wes" CD for 6-8 million as an insurance policy and spunk that Dunk money on someone who'll get you 15-20 goals.

Edited 16 July 2019 by Deeg67

[Foxin_Mad]

14 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

One thing I will say I dont know why everyone on here is obsessed with age.

 

The advantage of buying 28-30 year olds, is if they come good, we can get 5 years out of them, as bigger clubs wont come in for older players, surely thats better value for money.

 

We will e.g. keep evans until his legs go now, he wont move again until "his last pay check" day.

 

Whilst buying young players if they come good, they will want out after 2 years or so.  The club may make cash profit on the players, but it will be constant turnstile of players.  Which granted foxestalk seems to love.

No problem with older players. I'm just not sure Dunk is the player to buy at this time. There are other players I would rathe have for the cash.

[Raw Dykes]

17 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

He's a good player, but for 45m I would prefer someone better than 'good', he was one of the better players in one of the most anti football teams to have been in the prem in a long while, no way is he worth 45m. 
Put it this way, we paid 17m for Maguire who had been far better than Dunk in a team that actually tried to play football.

I agree that £45m for Dunk does seem ludicrous, but that's the market today.

 

We paid £17m for Maguire two years ago, when PL transfer fees weren't as insane, and we got him from a relegated club.

 

I was really pleased when we got Benko and Soyuncu at the end of the window last year. I thought that was great forward planning for losing Maguire. I hope that one or both are good enough to be relied on to be first choice. If the club go out and buy another CB, then clearly they don't think that either are at that level yet, and so I'll trust their judgement. The sad thing is, if we do want to get a replacement, we only really want a proven PL player, as another prospect, or a player from abroad, will be just as risky as relying on Benko or Soyuncu, and to get that kind of risk-free signing in today's market, you have to pay through the nose.

 

I'd rather we didn't help push up the already mental prices by overpaying for someone like Dunk, but I think most people recognise that this season is a great opportunity for us to really push for European football, and we should strike while the iron is hot.

 

I'll trust the club to do the right thing. They deserve a lot of credit for doing just that often lately.

[kingfox]

5 hours ago, knitro said:

In your world looking to the long term is binning the two hot prospect CBs for frankly an overpriced panic buy? If Maguire goes you really think we'd ship one of them out on loan? Just go with Evans, Morgan plus 1 as senior team CBs?

 

"It's a gamble that could seriously backfire" so is signing Dunk when we have heir apparents already on the team. If they aren't going to be it - let's find out now and then unload them. This notion that Dunk is so much more superior relies a lot on one of the most loathsome media cliches bandied about - PL Proven, like they only play the sport in England and everyone else is just mystified by rain and shoulder barges. 

 

These guys are capable of stepping up - let's have some confidence in our scouting, development ability and see what they can do with a regular run in the squad and vote of confidence. what's the point of breaking into the top 6 if we did it on house of cards which collapses 18 months later because we lack the financial mobility to adapt and adjust to our changing needs, because we sunk 50M on a relegation candidate's CB (And to preempt Maguire came from Hull - okay, but would you bet regularly on demoted team's CBs turning into Internationals 2 years later?)

No. Soyuncu and Benkovic will get their chance at some point, I just don't see it being this season. Also what would make Lewis Dunk a panic buy? The guy is a Premier League experienced defender with leadership qualities, if Rodgers wants that kind of player in our side then I'm all for it, it's not like scraping the barrel last minute.

 

If we sign Dunk as Maguire's replacement then it wouldn't surprise me if one of Benkovic or Soyuncu leave on loan, its guaranteed that they won't get first team football, at this moment in time I think Soyuncu needs it more. That would then leave us with Dunk, Evans, Morgan and Benkovic as our main CB options for this season, what's so bad about that?

 

Any signing could backfire but I'd rather trust a guy with Premier League experience over two guys with very little. Signing a Premier League experienced defender like Lewis Dunk could be the difference of top six or finishing outside of it. Look at our history with signing Robert Huth for example.

 

"These guys are capable of stepping up" I'll say it again where's the evidence on that? Soyuncu played six games in the league last season, very hit and miss. Benkovic played none. So how do you know that these guys are capable of stepping up? Did you dream that Soyuncu and Benkovic started a game together and kept a clean sheet?

 

Sunk £50 million on a relegation candidate CB  I couldn't give a toss how Brighton are expected to do. The two guys who got serious praise last season were Dunk and Duffy, they were a big reason on why they stayed up. The same applies for Tarkowski, Lascelles and Ake, all part of teams who are likely to finish bottom half, that doesn't mean they aren't good enough for us, you have four players there all capable of making the step up in class.

[Jaspa]

2 hours ago, mozartfox said:

What about all the mistakes Wes makes?  Two red cards, being outjumped at Newport (below sub-par opposition).  Please give Caglar (and Benko) a break ffs -.

 

It's absolutely incredible you've somehow turned all this into a way of slagging Westley Morgan off

 

At no point did I even mention him in my post, nor did I say Caglar or Benkovic shouldn't be given a chance in the League. I'm yet to be convinced by the pair of them yet and as far as I can tell the club management seem to have thought likewise, if one of them is thrust into the first XI I'll support them and the same goes for Wes.

 

[kingfox]

2 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Or could it be that fans have different perspectives? None of them necessarily right,  just opinions. If Rodgers decided to run with what he's got, does that mean that despite his professional evaluation, he's wrong and you're right?

Not at all, if Rodgers deems Benkovic and Soyuncu good enough then so be it. 

 

I just wouldn't be surprised if he evaluates the situation and signs Dunk, because he can offer us a lot more in a number of ways.

 

Next few weeks will be interesting, that's for sure.

[SheppyFox]

Before I say yes or no in my opinion of Dunk, how do his performances compare with HM last year? In all aspects, not just defensively.

[Monsell1976]

On 15/07/2019 at 08:43, Swan Lesta said:

Is ‘The Turk’ code for I can’t be arsed to attempt spelling Söyüncü?

 

 

 

Yes ? 

[mozartfox]

5 minutes ago, Jaspa said:

 

It's absolutely incredible you've somehow turned all this into a way of slagging Westley Morgan off

 

At no point did I even mention him in my post, nor did I say Caglar or Benkovic shouldn't be given a chance in the League. I'm yet to be convinced by the pair of them yet and as far as I can tell the club management seem to have thought likewise, if one of them is thrust into the first XI I'll support them and the same goes for Wes.

 

You highlighted some errors that Soyuncu made. Read your post again.  What I implied was he was not the only one!

[Ben.]

2 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

Just give me a "better than Wes" CD for 6-8 million as an insurance policy and spunk that Dunk money on someone who'll get you 15-20 goals.

Wes is that insurance policy - what would’ve been the point in signing a year extension if he wasn’t going to be involved. BR clearly thinks he still adds value to the squad. He was just as competent as Maguire was defensively last season if not more so - our defensive record was just as good with Evans/Morgan as with Evans/Maguire was it not. Although though we’re trying to evolve with our playing style and become more youthful he can still do a job when needed.

Edited 16 July 2019 by Ben.

[foxpleasure]

2 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

Just give me a "better than Wes" CD for 6-8 million as an insurance policy and spunk that Dunk money on someone who'll get you 15-20 goals.

Is it available to download on spotify?

[Jaspa]

4 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

You highlighted some errors that Soyuncu made. Read your post again.  What I implied was he was not the only one!

Soyuncu made those errors against very poor sides who went onto be relegated - they happened to be the only matches he was trusted with by two separate managers.

 

Your hatred of Morgan is irrational. He's more them proven himself at this club. His time is running to an end as a player and yes we can't gloss over days like Bournemouth away & Wolves away but he is a consummate professional and Club captain. Should he start most weeks? No

[mozartfox]

7 minutes ago, Jaspa said:

Soyuncu made those errors against very poor sides who went onto be relegated - they happened to be the only matches he was trusted with by two separate managers.

 

Your hatred of Morgan is irrational. He's more them proven himself at this club. His time is running to an end as a player and yes we can't gloss over days like Bournemouth away & Wolves away but he is a consummate professional and Club captain. Should he start most weeks? No

Hatred of Morgan ffs. Where do get this from?? I just made a comment he made mistakes TOO.  Best we both but out as you are spinning things I said into inaccurate  assumptions.  Have a nice day.

 

P.S.  in 50 years of supporting this Club I have never hated any of our players.

[Ric Flair]

23 minutes ago, kingfox said:

No. Soyuncu and Benkovic will get their chance at some point, I just don't see it being this season. Also what would make Lewis Dunk a panic buy? The guy is a Premier League experienced defender with leadership qualities, if Rodgers wants that kind of player in our side then I'm all for it, it's not like scraping the barrel last minute.

 

If we sign Dunk as Maguire's replacement then it wouldn't surprise me if one of Benkovic or Soyuncu leave on loan, its guaranteed that they won't get first team football, at this moment in time I think Soyuncu needs it more. That would then leave us with Dunk, Evans, Morgan and Benkovic as our main CB options for this season, what's so bad about that?

 

Any signing could backfire but I'd rather trust a guy with Premier League experience over two guys with very little. Signing a Premier League experienced defender like Lewis Dunk could be the difference of top six or finishing outside of it. Look at our history with signing Robert Huth for example.

 

"These guys are capable of stepping up" I'll say it again where's the evidence on that? Soyuncu played six games in the league last season, very hit and miss. Benkovic played none. So how do you know that these guys are capable of stepping up? Did you dream that Soyuncu and Benkovic started a game together and kept a clean sheet?

 

Sunk £50 million on a relegation candidate CB  I couldn't give a toss how Brighton are expected to do. The two guys who got serious praise last season were Dunk and Duffy, they were a big reason on why they stayed up. The same applies for Tarkowski, Lascelles and Ake, all part of teams who are likely to finish bottom half, that doesn't mean they aren't good enough for us, you have four players there all capable of making the step up in class.

Dunk would be a panic buy as we did our forward planning last summer to safeguard Maguire going with Benkovic and Soyuncu. £45m for a defender from a crap Prem team who is nearly 28 hardly screams a careful, shrewd and considered move does it? 

 

You seem to be basing all of this around the fact that Dunk has indispensible experience in this league that is essential for us and Benkovic and Soyuncu barely do. If that was the number one criteria all the time then the pool of players to choose from would be even smaller. Let's not make Dunk out to be a world beater here, if proven Prem experience is what you're after we should have gone for Craig Dawson for about £6m. Ake I could almost understand as he is still young and very classy, would cost around the same as Dunk. It's all opinions at the end of the day but I have to question what was the point in getting both Benkovic and Soyuncu if under all scenario's they were never going to be anything more than 4th and 5th choice.