The Politics Thread 2019

[Buce]

7 hours ago, BlueSi13 said:

Add Caroline Lucas to that as well.

 

The People's Vote campaign was never about giving us a "final say", it was always about stopping Brexit by whatever means necessary. 

 

But it's too late now.  Brexit will happen on the 31st regardless.  With Corbyn not tabling a motion a No Confidence vote yesterday, there is now no chance of a General Election being held prior to Halloween.  

 

Not even close to being true:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/25/brexit-election-what-are-chances-poll-before-31-october

[MC Prussian]

11 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

 

 

Not a fan of US "liberal" media masturbating in unison.

It's an MSNBC piece on a NYT article written by a Guardian journalist. Bit like a chain of people with the same opinion in the same room, an echo chamber. Bland.

 

The doom & gloom approach by Butler - then perpetuated by MSNBC - isn't helping anyone, there's no use in slating Johnson before he's even got to work.

"People like Boris Johnson who do not distinguish between fact and fiction" - ok, can you get any more simplistic and divisive?

And then push the same "Russia conspiracy" again. Deary me. Start reporting news, willya?

 

I'll slate conservative voices if they get too stupid, and here I'll do the same with equally idiotic rhetoric on the "left".

[MC Prussian]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49092606

 

So ICE can detain US citizens/green card holders now. Sparkling. Guess I'm well out of it - though I'm sure my skin colour would have meant I wouldn't have been in as much danger as others might be.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49116539

 

Whoops.

Twisting the original article, well done.

 

The young lad was arrested because "there were doubts about the authenticity of Mr Galicia's documents" and because his brother and other passengers were illegally entering the States. That makes the driver, now an adult and part-responsible, complicit.

You can argue that the ICE response may have been exaggerated, but faulty? Not.

Border Patrol are understaffed and ill-equipped to handle such a large influx of migrants to the US at the Southern border. It's a thankless job, but most of the US media don't care as much about them as they care about illegal immigrants in their coverage.

 

As for "Seal Gate", I think it's funny in some ways, but apart from a slight chuckle, doesn't strike me as overly newsworthy. It's a filler, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Dames]

15 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

This is 100% bang on. I refuse to believe there's still a majority out there that think the economic benefits of Brexit outweigh remain. Now, being honest, entrenched as I am in my cynicism I don't actually ever believe there were, I think they were always carried over the line by racist, nationalistic patriots. 

 

But now more than ever its become just a stubborn point of principle. The brexiteers have worked themselves up in to such a frenzy, with an enormous siege complex and some fabricated, imaginary "lefty" nemesis that they just passionately can't stand the idea that they'd "lose" by us not now leaving. 

 

It's not about the good of the country, its not about the democratic will of the people (which is undeniably to remain over a no deal but probably to remain over a deal as well) its just simply about alt right retards "beating" the "lefties."

 

Which is exactly what Boris and Co want. Some silly, populist, divisive crap turning us all on each other, getting us all chest thumping over nonsense and completely ignoring who actually ends up profiting from us leaving the EU - because it's not us, the voters. 

 

100% agree with what you've put here. Brexit has become a cult for its followers who refuse to accept all logical and factual arguments in how damaging it would be for the economy. They are determined not to lose to the 'snowflakes' and their reasoning is because we survived 2 world wars which were 74 and 100 years ago respectively. Times have changed but we have a huge following of people that are desperate to live action role play their war fantasies and Brexit is the closest thing they will ever get to an all out war and 'Snowflakes'/'Leftists' are the enemy they can all unite around.

 

I think its inevitable we will leave. The remain side of the argument is not united and some prominent figures have admitted they won't accept another leave result regardless which will hamper the cause rather than aid it. That kind of rhetoric doesn't work for the remain side of the argument and only energizes the Brexit cult even more.

 

Boris and his advisors has played a blinder here, he's targeted the Farage voter base which will be more than enough to see him through the next general election and give him a mandate. The remain side of the argument is too splintered and will spread their votes between 3 parties because the majority of the voters are too arrogant to put their grievances aside and vote for the 'greater good' as it were. Add to the fact that Corbyn is a completely ineffectual leader who is too preoccupied with flip flapping his views on Brexit and opposing Israel than actually being an effective Opposition leader which has crippled the Labour party and left them fighting amongst themselves.

 

In the end its going to be a no deal Brexit which will cripple our economy like the last recession and the only people that will benefit will be people like Jacob Rees Mogg and his hedge funds and his ilk that will allow this country to become a tax haven for the elite. At least a good proportion of middle aged men will finally get to LARP their war fantasties... just it won't be fighting Nazis but fending off rats for rations.

 

 

[Nick]

15 minutes ago, Dames said:

 

100% agree with what you've put here. Brexit has become a cult for its followers who refuse to accept all logical and factual arguments in how damaging it would be for the economy. They are determined not to lose to the 'snowflakes' and their reasoning is because we survived 2 world wars which were 74 and 100 years ago respectively. Times have changed but we have a huge following of people that are desperate to live action role play their war fantasies and Brexit is the closest thing they will ever get to an all out war and 'Snowflakes'/'Leftists' are the enemy they can all unite around.

 

I think its inevitable we will leave. The remain side of the argument is not united and some prominent figures have admitted they won't accept another leave result regardless which will hamper the cause rather than aid it. That kind of rhetoric doesn't work for the remain side of the argument and only energizes the Brexit cult even more.

 

Boris and his advisors has played a blinder here, he's targeted the Farage voter base which will be more than enough to see him through the next general election and give him a mandate. The remain side of the argument is too splintered and will spread their votes between 3 parties because the majority of the voters are too arrogant to put their grievances aside and vote for the 'greater good' as it were. Add to the fact that Corbyn is a completely ineffectual leader who is too preoccupied with flip flapping his views on Brexit and opposing Israel than actually being an effective Opposition leader which has crippled the Labour party and left them fighting amongst themselves.

 

In the end its going to be a no deal Brexit which will cripple our economy like the last recession and the only people that will benefit will be people like Jacob Rees Mogg and his hedge funds and his ilk that will allow this country to become a tax haven for the elite. At least a good proportion of middle aged men will finally get to LARP their war fantasties... just it won't be fighting Nazis but fending off rats for rations.

 

 

I can already hear Boris' 'casualties of war' Churchillian mock speech as the fallout of a no deal Brexit hits jobs and the economy and markets dive.

[Wortho]

I do not see the Brexiteers as a cult, in fact it is quite the opposite. Remainers are the ones that organise protest marches and even coach all the middle class from all over the country to London. In fact they appear to be a cult if any one does.

[Dames]

7 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

I can already hear Boris' 'casualties of war' Churchillian mock speech as the fallout of a no deal Brexit hits jobs and the economy and markets dive.

And he will be cheered for it. I've heard so many people on the radio lately saying that they are willing to sacrifice their jobs for Brexit. If that's the case they should be the first in line when the inevitable cuts come.

 

6 minutes ago, Wortho said:

I do not see the Brexiteers as a cult, in fact it is quite the opposite. Remainers are the ones that organise protest marches and even coach all the middle class from all over the country to London. In fact they appear to be a cult if any one does.

Both are cults just that the Brexiteers for the majority are united around the No Deal Ideology now whereas the Remainer cult is divided into several factions that argue among themselves as much as with Brexiteers. In fairness if times were normal and people were not so divided the government pressing ahead with a task which is the greatest risk to the economy and jobs in our lifetimes most people would be protesting and it would not be seen as a cult activity. We don't live in normal times however.

[Jattdogg]

2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Twisting the original article, well done.

 

The young lad was arrested because "there were doubts about the authenticity of Mr Galicia's documents" and because his brother and other passengers were illegally entering the States. That makes the driver, now an adult and part-responsible, complicit.

You can argue that the ICE response may have been exaggerated, but faulty? Not.

Border Patrol are understaffed and ill-equipped to handle such a large influx of migrants to the US at the Southern border. It's a thankless job, but most of the US media don't care as much about them as they care about illegal immigrants in their coverage.

 

As for "Seal Gate", I think it's funny in some ways, but apart from a slight chuckle, doesn't strike me as overly newsworthy. It's a filler, nothing more, nothing less.

 

At least they dont have to worry about Canadians plowing through the unmanned border in parts of Canada. Smart enough to stay the fuk away from that shit hole

[Foxin_Mad]

Its bizarre Brexit isn't really a left vs right situation, I don't understand why people would think it is.

 

Most proper left wingers would not want to be part of the EU, because it would prevent them for executing some of their policies. I notice the EU are opening European railways up to competition from private companies. Not something most left wingers are fond of. 

 

Anyone can believe in leave and anyone can believe in remain. I do think there are large parts of Midlands/North that are thoroughly disenchanted with  the Westminster bubble, this is really the huge problem for whoever is in charge. It is quite easy for people in the North to blame the EU for certain things particularly when they are being told that by sections of the media and some politicians. Actually most of our problems are nothing to do with the EU, they are to do with around 30 years of bad domestic policy, and national negativity from all sides.

 

One thing I have to say about initial impressions of Boris is you have to admire his positivity, part of the issue we have as a nation is aspiration, we all need to start believing that we can achieve something and having the confidence to do it instead of constantly talking ourselves down and accepting 2nd best. 

 

We are Britain, we are a brilliant country with a proud history, continually punching above our weight internationally, we have been home to some of the greatest minds and inventions. For some odd reason certain people want to bring us down and talk about our history as if we should be ashamed of it.

 

The phrase negativity breeds negativity has never been more true.  

[Voll Blau]

11 hours ago, BlueSi13 said:

Well if that REALLY turns out to be the case, you could always campaign for us to rejoin after Brexit?  

 

Could even campaign for us to adopt the Euro, join the Schengen Area, have our military become part of an EU defence force and/or allow us to submit to ever closer economic and political union within a Federal Europe or USE? 

 

Surely if Brexit is such a horror show such a campaign and referendum would be a cake-walk?

OK, as long as you promise not to tell those who do so to "get over it" or that they're being undemocratic? Deal?

 

 

1 hour ago, Wortho said:

I do not see the Brexiteers as a cult, in fact it is quite the opposite. Remainers are the ones that organise protest marches and even coach all the middle class from all over the country to London. In fact they appear to be a cult if any one does.

Oh come on. Both sides have their share of nutcases and I don't think anyone's more embarrassed by the #FBPE types than the majority of sensible Remain voters, but let's not forget the continued claims that Brexit supporters will cause mass civil disobedience if it doesn't happen - even if it turns out that leaving would actually bring no benefits to the country whatsoever.

 

The arguments coming from those devoted to the cause of Brexit have got less and less sensible as time has gone on. As others have said, it's now about the thing itself rather than any supposed benefits it would bring. It's become about 'Brexit means Brexit' which, ultimately, means absolutely nothing.

[Buce]

19 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

OK, as long as you promise not to tell those who do so to "get over it" or that they're being undemocratic? Deal?

 

 

Oh come on. Both sides have their share of nutcases and I don't think anyone's more embarrassed by the #FBPE types than the majority of sensible Remain voters, but let's not forget the continued claims that Brexit supporters will cause mass civil disobedience if it doesn't happen - even if it turns out that leaving would actually bring no benefits to the country whatsoever.

 

The arguments coming from those devoted to the cause of Brexit have got less and less sensible as time has gone on. As others have said, it's now about the thing itself rather than any supposed benefits it would bring. It's become about 'Brexit means Brexit' which, ultimately, means absolutely nothing.

 

Democracy, innit?

 

25% of the population want us to commit an act of collective self-harm, and by jove that’s what we’re going to do. We won a war once, y’know?

[Izzy]

30 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

 

One thing I have to say about initial impressions of Boris is you have to admire his positivity, part of the issue we have as a nation is aspiration, we all need to start believing that we can achieve something and having the confidence to do it instead of constantly talking ourselves down and accepting 2nd best. 

 

We are Britain, we are a brilliant country with a proud history, continually punching above our weight internationally, we have been home to some of the greatest minds and inventions. For some odd reason certain people want to bring us down and talk about our history as if we should be ashamed of it.

 

The phrase negativity breeds negativity has never been more true.  

I used to think like this but the last 3 years have ground me down into a skeptical, negative, cynical, untrusting old cvnt when it comes to all things politics.

 

The whole system needs drastic change and leaders I can trust before I’m engaged again unfortunately.

[MC Prussian]

53 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

At least they dont have to worry about Canadians plowing through the unmanned border in parts of Canada. Smart enough to stay the fuk away from that shit hole

Out of curiosity, I just read up on the Canada-US border situation.

 

Not as bad, but there‘s an increase in illegal border crossings, as well.

 

Latest numbers I read said something of less than a thousand people seeking refuge illegally. Given the much longer border with the US, I reckon there‘s a fair few that don‘t make their way into the statistics.

Edited 26 July 2019 by MC Prussian

[The Guvnor]

16 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I used to think like this but the last 3 years have ground me down into a skeptical, negative, cynical, untrusting old cvnt when it comes to all things politics.

 

The whole system needs drastic change and leaders I can trust before I’m engaged again unfortunately.

Think you're being a bit unfair to yourself wouldn't say you were skeptical.

[Ali Begbie]

1 hour ago, Dames said:

 

100% agree with what you've put here. Brexit has become a cult for its followers 

 

 

Really good observation that. Goes a long way to explaining the appeal of the Leave campaign.

 

True, some Remainers don't cover themselves in glory with some of their actions - but it's the Leaders of the Brexit cause whose behavoir has been bizarre.

 

Things like throwing dead fish into the Thames, turning their backs on the EU anthem, predicting the next  'golden age'... It has an almost religious fanaticism about it.

[Wortho]

55 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

OK, as long as you promise not to tell those who do so to "get over it" or that they're being undemocratic? Deal?

 

 

Oh come on. Both sides have their share of nutcases and I don't think anyone's more embarrassed by the #FBPE types than the majority of sensible Remain voters, but let's not forget the continued claims that Brexit supporters will cause mass civil disobedience if it doesn't happen - even if it turns out that leaving would actually bring no benefits to the country whatsoever.

 

The arguments coming from those devoted to the cause of Brexit have got less and less sensible as time has gone on. As others have said, it's now about the thing itself rather than any supposed benefits it would bring. It's become about 'Brexit means Brexit' which, ultimately, means absolutely nothing.

I think that the Remainers on their coaches singing ridiculous pitiful songs are embarrassing. I have seen no evidence of Leavers having many protest marches.

 

What evidence have you that points to the economy "crashing" if there is a No Deal?

[Innovindil]

Tbf I'd probably take cultist over racist. 

 

We're getting better. 

[lifted*fox]

1 hour ago, Wortho said:

I do not see the Brexiteers as a cult, in fact it is quite the opposite. Remainers are the ones that organise protest marches and even coach all the middle class from all over the country to London. In fact they appear to be a cult if any one does.

 

i suppose the jewish resistance fighters were a cult as well - how dare they want to break their fellow men/women/children out of those concentration camps.

 

you're not a cult just because you march for something and you're not a cult when you're marching for positive, peaceful reasons.

 

people marching on pro-EU rallies enjoy / like the current freedoms they have and want to retain them - nothing cultist about that.

 

however on the other hand, you've got your pro-brexit groups who want to fly in the face of all sound economic / factual reasoning and drag us out of the EU for no reason other that 'we won, get over it' - a cult? maybe not. thick / brainwashed and entrenched in fantasy, yes.

[lifted*fox]

3 minutes ago, Wortho said:

 I have seen no evidence of Leavers having many protest marches.

 

they tried and about 100 people turned out. mostly white, old, bitter men - intent on causing trouble, mostly.

 

whereas the remain march was something like 700,000 people, men, women, children, dogs of all ages, race, sexuality marching peacefully through the capital.

 

i know which 'cult' I'd rather be a part of.

[Wortho]

3 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

they tried and about 100 people turned out. mostly white, old, bitter men - intent on causing trouble, mostly.

 

whereas the remain march was something like 700,000 people, men, women, children, dogs of all ages, race, sexuality marching peacefully through the capital.

 

i know which 'cult' I'd rather be a part of.

Have you actually seen any of these people bussed in for the day? Nearly everyone is about 60 and middle class and white!!!

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Brexit has sadly boiled down to ego - loads of people being unwilling to admit they were wrong because it hurts their pride to say so and therefore being doubly determined to ignore all sensible analysis and argument because  of it. Pathetic that our country might well be crippled because some morons are too insecure to admit they got it wrong.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

2 minutes ago, Wortho said:

Have you actually seen any of these people bussed in for the day? Nearly everyone is about 60 and middle class and white!!!

Yes because those are the types of people that get the bus! everyone else would have got the train or drove. Nice try tho.

[Wortho]

1 minute ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Brexit has sadly boiled down to ego - loads of people being unwilling to admit they were wrong because it hurts their pride to say so and therefore being doubly determined to ignore all sensible analysis and argument because  of it. Pathetic that our country might well be crippled because some morons are too insecure to admit they got it wrong.

Who got it wrong?

[lifted*fox]

Just now, Wortho said:

Have you actually seen any of these people bussed in for the day? Nearly everyone is about 60 and middle class and white!!!

 

well, that's not true, is it?

 

what about the 10,000 odd people who took to the street to protest Johnson's appointment - were they all 60, middle aged and white? 

 

 

young people, black, white, asian - all concerned about their futures, their education, their opportunities to travel, to live across europe. 

 

what exactly happened to people like yourself that makes you think these concerns for the younger generation aren't valid? 

 

why are you so bitterly entrenched that you ignore facts and photos like the one above? 

 

 

[Wortho]

1 minute ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Yes because those are the types of people that get the bus! everyone else would have got the train or drove. Nice try tho.

That's embarrassing mate.