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1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

Who's claiming that all gun attacks are Trump's fault?  You're conflating two issues:

 

One is the (no longer) shockingly high levels of gun violence in the USA and the persistent refusal to do anything meaningful about it.

 

The other issue is that it's pretty clear that Trump's rhetoric had a direct influence on the El Paso shooter based on the jargon used in his manifesto.  

Correct about the first part, gun violence knows no political affiliation in the US, you can't pin it down on one particular political power or its influence.

The Las Vegas shooting in 2017 aside, where the motive to this day cannot be determined, you're usually looking at very deranged individuals committing heinous crimes.

There's definitely a certain mental health issue in the US, coupled with the accessibility of guns, it makes for a dangerous mix.

 

Obama used the same jargon about immigrants years ago, and nobody cried wolf about it. Who knows whether that rhetoric influenced the shooter, as well?

 

Plus, there's this somewhat cultish attitude towards killer's manifestos. You'll concur that it's become some sort of a calling card and copycat motive. And it is given way too much importance in the media. These shooters are egomaniacs with a low self-esteem and narcisstic tendencies. Why produce a manifesto otherwise? It's a deranged search for glory and prestige, even after death. In that regard, these idiots are no better than ISIS terrorists.

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1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

Correct about the first part, gun violence knows no political affiliation in the US, you can't pin it down on one particular political power or its influence.

The Las Vegas shooting in 2017 aside, where the motive to this day cannot be determined, you're usually looking at very deranged individuals committing heinous crimes.

There's definitely a certain mental health issue in the US, coupled with the accessibility of guns, it makes for a dangerous mix.

 

Obama used the same jargon about immigrants years ago, and nobody cried wolf about it. Who knows whether that rhetoric influenced the shooter, as well?

 

Plus, there's this somewhat cultish attitude towards killer's manifestos. You'll concur that it's become some sort of a calling card and copycat motive. And it is given way too much importance in the media. These shooters are egomaniacs with a low self-esteem and narcisstic tendencies. Why produce a manifesto otherwise? It's a deranged search for glory and prestige, even after death. In that regard, these idiots are no better than ISIS terrorists.

First bit in bold is just wow.  Citation needed.

 

Second bit is spot on, they are exactly like the ISIS terrorists who had their minds warped by internet propaganda and speeches given by an authority figure spouting hateful, divisive rhetoric from his pulpit.  On that we agree.

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2 hours ago, lifted*fox said:

Considering this kid's 'manifesto' was full of Trump-isms about the invasion of Hispanic people into the US and calling them vermin and infested, etc. You've got to be off your rocker tbh to not see the links between his rhetoric and these shootings. 

 

There's no twisting of facts for political agenda - the numbers are what they are. Just because another country has a higher crime rate of a different type - does that make it OK for America to have 250 reported mass shootings in 215 days? 

 

Trump literally stood in front of a crowd of people and said he couldn't personally see off the immigrants but people get away with it 'only in the pan-handle'. I'd dig out the video but there's no point, your defense of trump is borderline absurd. 

 

Mass shootings in the world get reported no matter what country they happen in. You follow any news outlet or keep up with world news on reddit and whether they're in India, China, Japan or USA they're all covered in detail. It's not about emitting detail and nuance - no other country has mass gun related shootings in the numbers that the USA does. 

 

The current president is a sexist, racist piece of shit. No matter how you want to frame it. It's not about previous administrations and what they did or didn't do. A progressive president should look to put in place changes to the second amendment to stop this from repeatedly happening. I don't give a **** if he's no better than Obama in this regard. Someone eventually has to come to power who is willing to be better than those who've gone before and start changing things. 

 

Stop making weird excuses for the orange cvnt. 

Again, people are giving these idiots' manifestos way too much publicity.

The US need to cure that gun crime cancer themselves. There's no denying that any person killed by a gunshot is a life wasted. Of course, it's not OK.

Is it ok to hit your wife or knife down innocent passersby?

 

I just find the connections made by some people that Trump is somehow enabling these people to justify their actions rather far-fetched. It doesn't matter who's in office, these deranged guys will always find an excuse for their abhorrent behaviour in their "manifesto".

As with the more in-depth explanation surrounding the currently 250 mass shootings in the US, only a small part of it is allegedly politically motivated, half of it luckily without any victims whatsoever, most of it related to other crimes (gangs, drugs, you name it) and concentrated in certain areas.

These twisted lonely gunmen get too much media coverage in comparison to all other weapons-related incidents.

 

Trump is who he is, he won't change. Not at his age. Listen, I find the "pan-handle" comment pretty much stupid myself. But I suppose once he's riding that wave of (economic and political) success, there's hardly any stopping him. He becomes overly confident and arrogant in some ways, too boisterous. Which heightens the chance of him saying something incredibly imbecile even more.

He just gives more people a canvas to project their fears and negative emotions onto him, more than any other president that came before him (older generations will maybe argue Nixon was even more despicable).

 

People forget that Obama deported way more people than Trump has done so far, that he was involved in plenty of killings by drone or killings of innocent civilians abroad. Just covered it up with his charisma and sparkling-white smile. People tend to look past previous Democratic administrations (Obama, Clinton) in particular with a lot more ignorance.

Why didn't previous administrations push for more consequential gun control? Obama had eight years time to do so, but couldn't get past a Senate dominated by Democrats, both in 2008 and 2012.

25 years have passed since the last (temporary) sales ban:

https://qz.com/1212311/parkland-florida-shooting-trump-talking-up-gun-control-without-lawmaking-is-great-for-the-nra/

 

Ironically, the more mass shootings you have, the more gun sales go up. Which pleases only the NRA and weapons' manufacturers.

On a sidenote, there's some positive signs in daily life:

Quote

Most Americans don’t own a gun, and gun ownership rates are falling from generation to generation. Two-thirds of gunowners own one or more guns, and nearly a third own five or more, so much of the increase in sales is likely going to people who are already armed.

(See link above)

Edited by MC Prussian

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18 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

First bit in bold is just wow.  Citation needed.

 

Second bit is spot on, they are exactly like the ISIS terrorists who had their minds warped by internet propaganda and speeches given by an authority figure spouting hateful, divisive rhetoric from his pulpit.  On that we agree.

When I say "jargon" I mean that Obama had similar policies in place or wanted to deploy similar policies, didn't word it that strongly, but the message is the same.

 

Don't agree that you can compare Trump to ISIS or Muslim terror propagandists. The latter clearly call for people's deaths (all infidels), and the perpetrators often times operate within a real-life web of similarly brainwashed fools.

As far as I can tell, (white) American mass shooters mostly act alone and out of selfish and narcisstic reasons. They want to be recognized, stand out in the crowd, and be it through the ultimate crime - murder.

Edited by MC Prussian

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1 hour ago, Jaspa said:

Basically just censorship. There's far more goes on with that website, it's always just been a place for outsiders to start a message board about whatever and chat openly in their own safe space without a spotlight being on them or being held accountable, any topic is fair game and open to discussion. So the majority of boards & people on that site which weren't hurting anyone will be looking for a new place and with their general options currently being Discord, Reddit, 4chan, Facebook & Twitter - all of which these groups already struggle to agree with - I don't see how this helps the internet by completely taking this down. The loonies will just find another newer place which could make itself more culturally accessible and longstanding healthy cultures die for their sake.

 

The internet as we've known it will continue to be dismantled piece by piece, it's future is looking more and more like Demolition Man, Stallone & Snipes.

 

Sorry I started replying to this then I got distracted by an urgent need to ms paint.  It's a bit more nuanced than glib censorship:  This isn't a matter of "outsiders" losing their only safe refuge, the internet's already full of places for weirdos and freaks to congregate, those guys will be fine.  It's the acceptance of incel hate speech and standing idly by as it spreads then being provably linked to multiple terrorist acts that's being scrutinised here.  We're talking a unique scenario that requires greater pause for thought than a mere application of free speech.  The company say as much in that blog post and make it clear they have no intention of habitually removing sites just for having distasteful content.  I'm not sure how this leads to using seashells on the bog.

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57 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

1735438949_samepic.thumb.jpg.d4df4e4cc81ce75a57916395fee83193.jpg

Quote

Both Democrats and most news media are yelling as often as they can that there is no border "crisis," even though they spent the last year telling everyone there was and even though they had no problem explicitly calling it a "crisis" in 2014, when the situation was the exact same as it is now. 

 

"We now have an actual humanitarian crisis on the border that only underscores the need to drop the politics and fix our immigration system once and for all," then-President Barack Obama said in the Rose Garden in 2014. "In recent weeks we've seen a surge of unaccompanied children arrive at the border, brought here and to other countries by smugglers and traffickers." 

This is no different than what President Trump said from the Oval Office on Tuesday. 

 

"Last month, 20,000 migrant children were illegally brought into the United States -- a dramatic increase," he said. "These children are used as human pawns by vicious coyotes and ruthless gangs." 

The only difference is how the media are covering it.

I was specifically referring to this as a study on how the US media put a spin on things these days:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/media-had-no-problem-calling-it-a-border-crisis-in-2014-under-obama

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683623555/president-obama-also-faced-a-crisis-at-the-southern-border?t=1565044938051

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7 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Are you not interested in the different spin that the Presidents themselves put on it?  One treats it as a humanitarian issue, the other as an invasion.  How dare the media report different events differently.

 

Or to quote your article:

Quote

 

Under Obama, the federal government eventually spent billions of dollars in response to the migrant surge. For instance,the administration greatly expanded the network of shelters contracted by the Department of Health and Human Services that house unaccompanied children. These shelters house the children until they can be placed with a parent or other relative already living in the U.S.

According to Michelle Brané, the Obama administration deserves credit for learning from its mistakes.

"The Trump administration has done basically the opposite," Brané said. "They took exactly what failed, and expanded on it."

 

 

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4 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

If you win the lottery, don't go public.

Be discrete, even with family and friends.

Don't go bloody stupid with outlandish spending.

Don't draw too much attention to yourself.

 

That's what I'm going to be like when I eventually win it

#positivethinking 

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4 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Correct about the first part, gun violence knows no political affiliation in the US, you can't pin it down on one particular political power or its influence.

The Las Vegas shooting in 2017 aside, where the motive to this day cannot be determined, you're usually looking at very deranged individuals committing heinous crimes.

There's definitely a certain mental health issue in the US, coupled with the accessibility of guns, it makes for a dangerous mix.

 

Obama used the same jargon about immigrants years ago, and nobody cried wolf about it. Who knows whether that rhetoric influenced the shooter, as well?

 

Plus, there's this somewhat cultish attitude towards killer's manifestos. You'll concur that it's become some sort of a calling card and copycat motive. And it is given way too much importance in the media. These shooters are egomaniacs with a low self-esteem and narcisstic tendencies. Why produce a manifesto otherwise? It's a deranged search for glory and prestige, even after death. In that regard, these idiots are no better than ISIS terrorists.

its-not-just-5c095a.jpg

 

If it walks like a white supremacist, quacks like a white supremacist, posts material on 8chan like a white supremacist and shoots indiscriminately like a white supremacist...perhaps it's best to simply assume white supremacist? And yes, there is a not unreasonable correlation between an increase in mass shootings of this indiscriminate type (rather than specifically personal targetted ones like the majority of them indeed are) and the political climate of the last couple of years. Of course, even though there is correlation, causation can't be conclusively proven, that's the cool thing about such stochastic terrorism (as said on the previous page).

 

Do agree that to have that kind of belief you have to be pretty deranged in the first place, but then I don't see much movement to make mental healthcare more easily accessible in the US from the powers that be either, do you?

 

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Actually, an interesting random post find about it all:

 

"I've been thinking today that the "mentally ill" thing spans two sides of the Just World fallacy. People who tut-tut about "they have to be mentally ill" truly don't want to believe they live in a world where perfectly ordinary people can do perfectly horrible things. So if you and your friends and family are not mentally ill or if you are in treatment for your illness, of course you and your family and friends would never do anything bad or awful or evil.

The shooters, OTOH, think that in a Just World that girl would sleep with him, because he deserves to have sex with who he wants. And in a Just World there shouldn't be all these horrible minorities and immigrants who are getting what he deserves to get but they don't deserve it. So they feel that in the name of a Just World, they are right to go out and deliver what they believe is justice."

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Bunged this in to highlight how easy it is to get through patio doors ...  they use a thing called a snapper which can snap the lock off in seconds ..   and it’s fairly quiet.  Pays to have a few turn bolts on the inside ...   they match the doors and just snap down in a second.    I put them on ...   and yes unfortunately it was after the horse had bolted ! ..   :)

 

 

BE6AD26C-2D3D-41C3-ABB7-CF8FA77FD624.jpeg

41531B4B-3A6C-49DE-9A1A-074EBE0F78AC.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Bunged this in to highlight how easy it is to get through patio doors ...  they use a thing called a snapper which can snap the lock off in seconds ..   and it’s fairly quiet.  Pays to have a few turn bolts on the inside ...   they match the doors and just snap down in a second.    I put them on ...   and yes unfortunately it was after the horse had bolted ! ..   :)

 

 

BE6AD26C-2D3D-41C3-ABB7-CF8FA77FD624.jpeg

41531B4B-3A6C-49DE-9A1A-074EBE0F78AC.jpeg

 

£28000 in cash ! 

 

Do people really have this sort of loot under the bed or only when they are formulating the insurance claim ? 

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22 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Bunged this in to highlight how easy it is to get through patio doors ...  they use a thing called a snapper which can snap the lock off in seconds ..   and it’s fairly quiet.  Pays to have a few turn bolts on the inside ...   they match the doors and just snap down in a second.    I put them on ...   and yes unfortunately it was after the horse had bolted ! ..   :)

 

 

BE6AD26C-2D3D-41C3-ABB7-CF8FA77FD624.jpeg

41531B4B-3A6C-49DE-9A1A-074EBE0F78AC.jpeg

Or buy a K9 burglar alarm

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRr_aaiZaODXsQ8eI0DizaQST_u4an62J8qurDmAY7RDvQU7ecZkg

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43 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

 

£28000 in cash ! 

 

Do people really have this sort of loot under the bed or only when they are formulating the insurance claim ? 

 

Yes I think this chap may have drawn attention to himself ..   watch, car etc ... 

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55 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

 

£28000 in cash ! 

 

Do people really have this sort of loot under the bed or only when they are formulating the insurance claim ? 

I'm lucky if I can scrape together a fiver in cash in my house! 

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Knife crime has been in the news to often across the last decade, especially of late.

 

The question of how to tackle this epidemic is a difficult one - but initiatives like this can surely only help? 

 

(note: this is also shameless self promotion)

 

 

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40 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I despair, I really ****ing do:

 

 

 

Get used to shit like this, post Brexit

 

#bananarepublicbritain

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Banana republic can be added to the list of terms like fascist and nazi that people have become fond of throwing around with evidently no knowledge of what it means

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UK pushed out of Interrail scheme after dispute
3 hours ago

The UK's decades-long membership of the Interrail scheme, which allows people to travel around Europe on a single train ticket, is to end.

From January 2020, UK rail journeys will no longer be covered by either the Interrail or Eurail passes, said Rail Delivery Group (RDG), which represents UK train operators.

It means ticketholders will have to buy separate tickets to get around Britain.

RDG blamed a dispute with Eurail Group which manages the Interrail scheme.


What is Interrail?
Launched in 1972, the Interrail pass enables European citizens to travel around 31 countries - including the UK - by train and ferry. The older Eurail pass lets non-European citizens to do the same.

Over the decades Interrail journeys have been a rite of passage for millions of mostly young tourists, although older people use the pass too.

Rail Delivery Group stressed British people would still be able to buy Interrail tickets and travel around the Continent, and the changes had "no relation" to Brexit.


It added that Eurostar trains would not be affected by the decision, which means passholders will be able to travel from Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam to London and vice versa.

However, travel around the rest of the UK will require a separate ticket, affecting both UK and non-UK passholders.

 

Who will suffer most from this decision?
Mark Smith, a travel writer and author of train travel blog the Man in Seat 61, said that inbound visitors to the UK would be most affected.

He said the additional cost of rail travel around the UK would put many off travelling beyond London, and they would miss out on tourist destinations around the country.

 

Some UK travellers are likely to suffer, as well.

Currently, if a Briton buys an Interrail pass it covers their train journey from home to the Eurostar and back again at the end. But that is set to end.

As one disappointed traveller Tweeted: "It costs me a fair few pounds to get from the Scottish Highlands to London."

The exceptions here will be people who live near to the Eurostar terminals in London and the South East.

Northern Ireland will also remain in the Interrail scheme because it is covered by an agreement for the whole island of Ireland.

 

Why has this happened?
It is complicated.

RDG said the dispute stemmed from a decision by Eurail Group, a Dutch organisation, to merge its two passes into one.

RDG said the new pass would clash with its own Britrail pass, also aimed at non-European citizens, which covers UK rail travel and offers discounts on local tourist attractions.

It added that Eurail Group decided to end RDG's membership of Interrail/Eurail after RDG declined to sell the new product.


Report
RDG regional director Robert Nisbet said: "The rail industry boosts British tourism and, working together, rail companies are offering the best option for tourists with BritRail, which is recommended by Visit Britain [the UK's official tourism promotion agency]."

Eurail said that all Interrail and Eurail passes purchased before 31 December 2019 were still valid for travelling on UK trains until the end of their validity period.

But it added: "As a consequence of RDG not being part of Eurail and Interrail, travellers who buy a Eurail or Interrail Global Pass in 2020 will no longer be able to travel in Great Britain."

RDG said that it wanted to work with Eurail Group to develop an offer for tourists who want to buy the Eurail and Britrail passes together.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49263781

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Watching the news is so depressing these days. World economy looking shaky, trade wars, Trump, Brexit, Brazilian rain forest being cut down at a record rates, climate change, plastic pollution. Thank God I’m in the last quarter.

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