Brexit!

[Bobby Hundreds]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

Nigel Farage, Jeffery Archer and probably John Prescott.

Would love to see Big JP knock ten bells out of Farage after 13 pints of Spitfire.

[Guest MattP]

5 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Begs the question, which 3 politicians would you go on the lash with? I'd plump for Ken Clarke, Dennis Skinner and Liz Kendall, just in case like. 

Alive - Nigel Farage, Michael Portillo and Jacob Rees-Mogg.

 

Dead - Alan Clark, Paddy Ashdown and Winston Churchill.

[Alf Bentley]

18 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Piss up with the lads?

 

Cable would be decent company, but I reckon that Grieve and Lammy would quickly grate, in different ways.

 

16 minutes ago, MattP said:

I think I'd rather join Jihadi John and the Beatles in Syria.

 

That should be in your strapline or whatever the quote at the bottom is called.

 

[Alf Bentley]

Stephen Bush's assessment of Brexit negotiations this morning:

 

"Is a new(ish) Brexit deal imminent? That’s the word on the street according to several of this morning’s papers, from EU diplomats and among civil servants.   The ‘new’ part would involve putting the customs and regulatory border with the European Union in the Irish Sea – the EU’s original proposal for how to solve the Irish border question and the private view of some Brexiteers as far back as 2016. It allows a far greater deal of divergence from EU rules for the rest of the United Kingdom and would free a future Conservative government from the obligations that the UK-wide backstop brought upon it on regulation, environmental standards, labour market protections and whole host of other regulations.   While the change to the deal Theresa May brought is superficially small, it is one with major policy and economic concessions. From the perspective of the Conservative party’s actual policy aims, it sits up and works.   [...]   This new(ish) solution allows a greater level of divergence at a greater economic cost, but it is one that various big-name Leavers – including Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings – have made a lot of noise opposing publicly. Not all of them will be willing to come in from the cold, and the DUP’s policy requirements for Brexit – that they do not end up with a situation in which decisions about Northern Ireland are made not in Northern Ireland or Westminster, but elsewhere – cannot be reconciled with the Conservative’ desire for divergence.   The big question over the next few days is probably not “can the deal pass” but whether Boris Johnson decides his interests are served by bringing back a deal to a Parliament that is unlikely to sign it off in order to go to the country having “succeeded” in negotiating a new deal, or if he is better off being able to go to the country having walked out of talks and blaming his opponents in Parliament for the failure".

[Guest MattP]

54 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Stephen Bush's assessment of Brexit negotiations this morning:

 

"Is a new(ish) Brexit deal imminent? That’s the word on the street according to several of this morning’s papers, from EU diplomats and among civil servants.   The ‘new’ part would involve putting the customs and regulatory border with the European Union in the Irish Sea – the EU’s original proposal for how to solve the Irish border question and the private view of some Brexiteers as far back as 2016. It allows a far greater deal of divergence from EU rules for the rest of the United Kingdom and would free a future Conservative government from the obligations that the UK-wide backstop brought upon it on regulation, environmental standards, labour market protections and whole host of other regulations.   While the change to the deal Theresa May brought is superficially small, it is one with major policy and economic concessions. From the perspective of the Conservative party’s actual policy aims, it sits up and works.   [...]   This new(ish) solution allows a greater level of divergence at a greater economic cost, but it is one that various big-name Leavers – including Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings – have made a lot of noise opposing publicly. Not all of them will be willing to come in from the cold, and the DUP’s policy requirements for Brexit – that they do not end up with a situation in which decisions about Northern Ireland are made not in Northern Ireland or Westminster, but elsewhere – cannot be reconciled with the Conservative’ desire for divergence.   The big question over the next few days is probably not “can the deal pass” but whether Boris Johnson decides his interests are served by bringing back a deal to a Parliament that is unlikely to sign it off in order to go to the country having “succeeded” in negotiating a new deal, or if he is better off being able to go to the country having walked out of talks and blaming his opponents in Parliament for the failure".

Always been the best at critical analysis on the left has Bush, seems to be able to look at it logically rather than through his own eyes - someone people like Toynbee, Monbiot, Peston just can't do. 

 

He's certainly going to bring something back by the looks of it amd it's now down to the hard Brexiteers - the difference between this and May is they had Boris as an alternative to that - there is now nobody standing behind Boris who can get a better deal in the current circumstances. 

 

They might even go in different directions to the DUP, Mark Francois hinted at that earlier on TV.

[Guest MattP]

Top quality trolling by Stephen Barclay.

 

Hillary Benn "Do you envisage asking for a short extension in the event of a deal?"

 

Barclay "No the Benn act has shown how quickly parliament can legislate when it wants to"

Edited 16 October 2019 by MattP

[The Horse's Mouth]

Prescott, Farage and Skinner surely Thatd be a right night out

[Saxondale]

17 hours ago, MattP said:

He has, but virtually every Brexiteer/Tory voter I know is fully prepared now to give him the benefit of the doubt and realises parliament has sabotaged him. 

We have a parliamentary democracy. Parliament hasn't 'sabotaged' him; parliament exists - in part - to stop prats like him doing whatever the f**k he feels like.

There are countries without such effective due process, like...North Korea.

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Saxondale said:

We have a parliamentary democracy. Parliament hasn't 'sabotaged' him; parliament exists - in part - to stop prats like him doing whatever the f**k he feels like.

There are countries without such effective due process, like...North Korea.

The Benn act sabotages the PM doing what he intended - to hopefully get concessions taking talks right down to the last minute. 

 

We have a big problem now because many in parliament setting those laws lied to get there, I mean about 40% of the Lib Dems weren't even elected for that party. It's a massive problem.

[Finnaldo]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

We have a big problem now because many in parliament setting those laws lied to get there, I mean about 40% of the Lib Dems weren't even elected for that party. It's a massive problem.

You vote for your MP, not the party, no? Regardless of party, thats still the representative that was voted for.

 

Unless those MPs were campaigning on a no deal Brexit, they haven’t lied, most of them feel the party they were under no longer represented their stance. If their constituents feel otherwise they can use their vote at the next election. 

 

Political deception for your own gain is also a pretty rich for supporters of the current cabinet...

[Alf Bentley]

6 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Begs the question, which 3 politicians would you go on the lash with? I'd plump for Ken Clarke, Dennis Skinner and Liz Kendall, just in case like. 

 

I'd be on for a wild night out in Brussels with Barnier, Tusk & Verhofstadt.

Mussels and chips washed down with a dozen bottles of Gueuze.

 

I would have invited Juncker, but he'd already had more than enough by lunchtime.

 

Might have to keep an eye on Tusk, too, judging from his Wiki entry.....

"His young self was a "typical hooligan" who often got into fights - "we would roam the streets, you know, cruising for a bruising".

[Guest MattP]

53 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Unless those MPs were campaigning on a no deal Brexit, they haven’t lied, most of them feel the party they were under no longer represented their stance. If their constituents feel otherwise they can use their vote at the next election. 

I'm sorry, but if you stood for the Conservative party  on a manifesto to deliver an "orderly Brexit" and now sit on the Liberal Democrat benches standing on a policy to revoke Article 50 you have completely lied to your constituents to get yourself elected. 

 

Even the (still insufficient) evidence they offered of Boris "chasing a no deal Brexit" is looking pretty flimsy now given it seems certain a deal is coming back to the HoC.

 

Would you be fine with Jo Swinson now defecting to the Tories and demanding a hard Brexit? 

[Finnaldo]

21 minutes ago, MattP said:

I'm sorry, but if you stood for the Conservative party  on a manifesto to deliver an "orderly Brexit" and now sit on the Liberal Democrat benches standing on a policy to revoke Article 50 you have completely lied to your constituents to get yourself elected. 

 

Even the (still insufficient) evidence they offered of Boris "chasing a no deal Brexit" is looking pretty flimsy now given it seems certain a deal is coming back to the HoC.

 

Would you be fine with Jo Swinson now defecting to the Tories and demanding a hard Brexit? 

Most Tory MPs were pro-Remain and have agreed to carry Brexit because of the referendum result not their personal beliefs, it’s down to individuals exactly where they draw the line on the Brexit they wish to be a part of. Philip Lee stood the election under Theresa May who was offering up a (relatively) moderate Brexit, he did not stand the election under Boris Johnson and his extremely unpredictable scattershot strategy. Ultimately, he was a Remain MP and his allegiance was unlikely to last under a Conservative leader who sees No Deal as a viable option.

 

The people of Bracknell should have been aware by 2017 that Lee was ultimately a Remain MP toeing the party line under a PM presenting extremely moderate Brexit. If they wanted an MP that fully supported Leave no matter the format, they should have voted for a different candidate. I’ve stressed even before Brexit that you should research your constituency’s candidates before voting. 

[Guest MattP]

28 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Most Tory MPs were pro-Remain and have agreed to carry Brexit because of the referendum result not their personal beliefs, it’s down to individuals exactly where they draw the line on the Brexit they wish to be a part of. Philip Lee stood the election under Theresa May who was offering up a (relatively) moderate Brexit, he did not stand the election under Boris Johnson and his extremely unpredictable scattershot strategy. Ultimately, he was a Remain MP and his allegiance was unlikely to last under a Conservative leader who sees No Deal as a viable option.

 

The people of Bracknell should have been aware by 2017 that Lee was ultimately a Remain MP toeing the party line under a PM presenting extremely moderate Brexit. If they wanted an MP that fully supported Leave no matter the format, they should have voted for a different candidate. I’ve stressed even before Brexit that you should research your constituency’s candidates before voting. 

This is just a complete rewrite of history, whether you were leave or remain or right of left it was made pretty clear that the Tories were chasing a hard Brexit and Labour a softer one, Mansion House and Lancaster House confirmed this. 

 

My MP was a Remainer who backed Cameron's deal - I've still got my letter from him - I voted for him though because I expect him to implement the manifesto he stood on, not run off to the complete opposite end of the argument. 

 

To suggest people should look so deeply into candidates they have to now judge whether they might completely U-Turn on any issue is crazy, Lib Dem students who voted on free tuition were entitled to be angry and this is exactly the same.

 

The final insult from MP'S like him is then the desertion when the next election comes, too scared to face the electorate he shafted to runs off to a Lib Dem friendly seat.

[Guest Markyblue]

3 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

You vote for your MP, not the party, no? Regardless of party, thats still the representative that was voted for.

 

Unless those MPs were campaigning on a no deal Brexit, they haven’t lied, most of them feel the party they were under no longer represented their stance. If their constituents feel otherwise they can use their vote at the next election. 

 

Political deception for your own gain is also a pretty rich for supporters of the current cabinet...

You Vote for the mp not the party, ...absolute utter crap.

[RobHawk]

1 hour ago, Markyblue said:

You Vote for the mp not the party, ...absolute utter crap.

Actually it's not. But it does highlight a huge flaw in our electoral system because alot of people do vote for the party having no idea who the candidate is or what they stand for. 

 

The conversatives themselves have described themselves as a broad church, so if you just vote Tory, how do you know what part of that broad church you are voting for. There's some pretty despicable MPs from all major parties that shouldn't get near being an MP, but they stand for the right party in the right area and hey presto, they are in!

[Dr The Singh]

1 hour ago, Markyblue said:

You Vote for the mp not the party, ...absolute utter crap.

I vote of the fittest MP or the MP with the fittest wife

[Legend_in_blue]

14 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

I vote of the fittest MP or the MP with the fittest wife

Didn't vote Brexit Party in the Euros then? 😆

[Izzy]

38 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

Actually it's not. But it does highlight a huge flaw in our electoral system because alot of people do vote for the party having no idea who the candidate is or what they stand for. 

 

The conversatives themselves have described themselves as a broad church, so if you just vote Tory, how do you know what part of that broad church you are voting for. There's some pretty despicable MPs from all major parties that shouldn't get near being an MP, but they stand for the right party in the right area and hey presto, they are in!

I'd also go as far as to say that a lot of people vote based on who the potential next leader of the country might be - regardless of party or policies. 

 

For many people without much of an interest in politics, I think they see a general election as more of a US style presidential race.

[Dr The Singh]

38 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Didn't vote Brexit Party in the Euros then? 😆

I have very low standards 

[Guest MattP]

Louise Ellman resigns from Labour.

 

[Guest Fktf]

2 hours ago, Dr The Singh said:

I vote of the fittest MP or the MP with the fittest wife

I've not been around here long, but I've already come to like your interjections into the serious topics on the forum. Genuinely. I was going to write what would probably be a long response to some posts in here, but this made me smile, and now I'm good. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Louise Ellman resigns from Labour.

Yet another Jewish female Labour MP has major issues with the people running the party.

 

" WE ARE NOT AN ANTI SEMITIC PARTY UNDER CORBYN THOUGH. IT'S THE MSM AND THEIR AGENDAS " etc etc

[Mike Oxlong]

7 hours ago, Dr The Singh said:

I vote of the fittest MP or the MP with the fittest wife

Bet you have laminated pics of Theresa May ! 

[Guest Markyblue]

3 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Yet another Jewish female Labour MP has major issues with the people running the party.

 

" WE ARE NOT AN ANTI SEMITIC PARTY UNDER CORBYN THOUGH. IT'S THE MSM AND THEIR AGENDAS " etc etc

Unfortunately the theft of the Labour party is complete.   The party that for most of my life was for the working man has gone. Its been replaced by a utterly anti semitic bunch of never grown up radical students and middle class metropolitan elite hand wringers. The fact that normal working class people who have now to vote tory is jezzys biggest crime.