Cup or Top 4 in league...the choice is yours

[Fightforever]

A PL title a UCL quarter final placement and a fa cup to show for this era without it even being over.

For me it would be better than top 4 because trophies are remembered forever.

[Vlad the Fox]

We need to win things, football is about winning things. arsenal became a joke winning their ‘4th place Cup’ year after year, and for all their mocking spurs have now fallen into the same trap. Glory in the cups for me, I’m assuming that many of the top 4 votes are youngsters who were too young to enjoy our cup finals in the past, the run, the semi finals the big day out itself, The City, County on stand down as everyone gets somewhere to watch the match. The victorious trip home with motorway bridges draped in flags and banners and increasingly larger crowds of people waving the returning blue army home from each bridge as we approached Leicester, I felt like a returning soldier, victorious and proud. The party down Narborough road, people in their front gardens, pubs heaving and beer gardens bouncing. Or 4th spot and a few nice away trips until we get knocked out by Atletico Madrid.

 

 Players are attracted to clubs that win things, fans are attracted to clubs that win things, in 30 years time when UFS decide to do the roll of honour tifo again, what would you prefer? A row of dates for finishing in the the top 4 or a row of the trophies we have won.

 

I’ve been to cup finals, and I’ve travelled and watched us in Europe, my fondest memories are those winning cup finals. Europe was great but nothing like winning a cup final. 

[Dan]

9 hours ago, Ted Maul said:

Win the FA Cup or get slightly bigger so there's a chance we might win the FA Cup? 

This is the problem.

 

It reminds me of this: https://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of-the-mexican-fisherman/

 

It's like we've forgotten the ultimate goal.

[wattolcfc]

I feel such a hypocrite as I used to slate fans of the top clubs for just being happy with top 4 and not trophies but for us to push onto the next level and keep hold of key players, we need to be aiming for the Champions League.

[Ted Maul]

51 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

This is the problem.

 

It reminds me of this: https://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of-the-mexican-fisherman/

 

It's like we've forgotten the ultimate goal.

Exactly.

 

And anyway, say we got top 4- then what? Get to the quarters, best case scenario? Absolutely no chance of us making an assault on the European places in the league with that commitment, so we're probably back to square one as a midtable club with players wanting to join clubs in the Champions League after getting a taste.

 

An FA Cup win would be much better for the size of the club.

[Blue-fox]

Both are realistic this season in my opinion. 

[st albans fox]

The trophy (preferably the FA cup)  should of course be way better than a top four finish ..... but for a long term legacy of the Rodgers management spell, we need to retain our best players and possibly the only way of doing that is to qualify for the CL and the likes of JM and chilly will struggle to walk away from that 

 

an fa cup win delivers europa league ..... would they stick around for that ??

 

 

[The Quick Brown Fox]

12 hours ago, Stevosevic said:

Winning the FA cup doesn't even save a managers job these days. 

Neither does winning the league any more.

[Stevosevic]

13 minutes ago, browniefox said:

Neither does winning the league any more.

No manager has been let go immediately after winning the league. 

 

Relegation form after 2/3 of a season gets you the sack 

[The Quick Brown Fox]

57 minutes ago, Stevosevic said:

No manager has been let go immediately after winning the league. 

 

Relegation form after 2/3 of a season gets you the sack 

Fabio Capello, sacked a month after winning La Liga

Vicente Del Bosque sacked a couple of days after winning La Liga

 

Just so we are clear. My original comment stands. 

[urban fox]

22 hours ago, Vlad the Fox said:

We need to win things, football is about winning things. arsenal became a joke winning their ‘4th place Cup’ year after year, and for all their mocking spurs have now fallen into the same trap. Glory in the cups for me, I’m assuming that many of the top 4 votes are youngsters who were too young to enjoy our cup finals in the past, the run, the semi finals the big day out itself, The City, County on stand down as everyone gets somewhere to watch the match. The victorious trip home with motorway bridges draped in flags and banners and increasingly larger crowds of people waving the returning blue army home from each bridge as we approached Leicester, I felt like a returning soldier, victorious and proud. The party down Narborough road, people in their front gardens, pubs heaving and beer gardens bouncing. Or 4th spot and a few nice away trips until we get knocked out by Atletico Madrid.

 

 Players are attracted to clubs that win things, fans are attracted to clubs that win things, in 30 years time when UFS decide to do the roll of honour tifo again, what would you prefer? A row of dates for finishing in the the top 4 or a row of the trophies we have won.

 

I’ve been to cup finals, and I’ve travelled and watched us in Europe, my fondest memories are those winning cup finals. Europe was great but nothing like winning a cup final. 

The waterlogged boggy pitches covered in sand, the mullet hairdos, the endless replays, all day coverage of the final on both TV channels (yes there were only two, and for the majority in black and white - I remember being invited round to one of my dads mates houses to watch the 1970 cup final on their new colour telly). Remember it all well. Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, and despite the fact that the cups don't seem to have the same high profile or prestige that they did back in the day in these days where TV money (and hence European football) is everything to the clubs, I would give my right arm to see us finally lift the most holy of footballing grails, the FA cup.

Cannot agree with the comments about a fleeting moment of glory compared to the chance to go on a European tour. All very well if you have the time, wherewithal and ability to actually get tickets for these games, or even a BT subscription. How can that compare for the majority who can't but can certainly enjoy the euphoria of that day on Victoria park.

Yes top 4 would be a great achievement, and in terms of sustainability of us being a top club in attracting and affording better players is undeniably the long term ambition of the club, yet I am certain there would be far more tears shed in the county and beyond watching that iconic piece of silverware being lofted above a head in a blue shirt

[Rusko187]

Tough one, I'm swaying towards FA Cup.

Unless you win the league, no-one really looks back and cares about where you finished. Leaving a legacy of FA Cup and League Cup wins is very good. That said, I wasn't able to take in the away CL games, would love to have an opportunity to go to them.

[ThaiFox]

20 hours ago, st albans fox said:

The trophy (preferably the FA cup)  should of course be way better than a top four finish ..... but for a long term legacy of the Rodgers management spell, we need to retain our best players and possibly the only way of doing that is to qualify for the CL and the likes of JM and chilly will struggle to walk away from that 

 

an fa cup win delivers europa league ..... would they stick around for that ??

 

 

Has to be the FA cup, for reasons I've already stated.

 

And could you guarantee any players sticking around for the Champions League with us?

 

Kante didn't. He was off the first chance he got. Vardy was half tempted with the Arsenal interest.

 

Even Ranieri said it would be difficult holding onto players and almost pleaded with them 'one more year'.

[Carl the Llama]

22 hours ago, Vlad the Fox said:

We need to win things, football is about winning things. arsenal became a joke winning their ‘4th place Cup’ year after year, and for all their mocking spurs have now fallen into the same trap. Glory in the cups for me, I’m assuming that many of the top 4 votes are youngsters who were too young to enjoy our cup finals in the past, the run, the semi finals the big day out itself, The City, County on stand down as everyone gets somewhere to watch the match. The victorious trip home with motorway bridges draped in flags and banners and increasingly larger crowds of people waving the returning blue army home from each bridge as we approached Leicester, I felt like a returning soldier, victorious and proud. The party down Narborough road, people in their front gardens, pubs heaving and beer gardens bouncing. Or 4th spot and a few nice away trips until we get knocked out by Atletico Madrid.

 

 Players are attracted to clubs that win things, fans are attracted to clubs that win things, in 30 years time when UFS decide to do the roll of honour tifo again, what would you prefer? A row of dates for finishing in the the top 4 or a row of the trophies we have won.

 

I’ve been to cup finals, and I’ve travelled and watched us in Europe, my fondest memories are those winning cup finals. Europe was great but nothing like winning a cup final. 

Football is about winning things but if a mid-table team wins the FA Cup all it means is they'll be able to attract better players than their league rivals and they'll still be passed over if a team that finished 4th and are in the Champions League wants the same player.

[Vlad the Fox]

5 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Football is about winning things but if a mid-table team wins the FA Cup all it means is they'll be able to attract better players than their league rivals and they'll still be passed over if a team that finished 4th and are in the Champions League wants the same player.

So qualify for 4th and win nothing, great, but i’ll take a cup win. Bring trophies in regularly and the better players will come and build a history of success, not one of qualifying for a competition we'll most likely never win. 

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, Vlad the Fox said:

So qualify for 4th and win nothing, great, but i’ll take a cup win. Bring trophies in regularly and the better players will come and build a history of success, not one of qualifying for a competition we'll most likely never win. 

We're having a bit of a chicken and egg situation here.  You think winning the FA Cup will attract the players to boost our league position and it's not that I don't agree, but I think a high league position and a CL campaign is the more attractive prospect for the better players out there, boosting our cup chances going forwards.  For me the league is the egg.

[Vlad the Fox]

11 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

We're having a bit of a chicken and egg situation here.  You think winning the FA Cup will attract the players to boost our league position and it's not that I don't agree, but I think a high league position and a CL campaign is the more attractive prospect for the better players out there, boosting our cup chances going forwards.  For me the league is the egg.

 

 

its only ever ever going to happen with a question like this. However the league is clearly a chicken.  

[ThaiFox]

18 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

We're having a bit of a chicken and egg situation here.  You think winning the FA Cup will attract the players to boost our league position and it's not that I don't agree, but I think a high league position and a CL campaign is the more attractive prospect for the better players out there, boosting our cup chances going forwards.  For me the league is the egg.

Of course there is the chance we could attract better players, or hold onto our best ones.

 

However, I still think that if we finish top 4 it wont stop players leaving, if it's to a big name club, for one minute. Look at Kante as an example. We nearly lost Vardy too, and would have if Arsenal could have guaranteed him a starting place every week.

 

Do you honestly think Tielemans, or Maddison would stay with us if we finish 3rd, and Barcelona, Rael Madrid, Man City, PSG etc, came knocking? Or even if a huge club which didn't even qualify for the C/L?

 

And who did we attract by winning the P/L? No-one of note. In fact we signed inferior players to ones we already had!

 

Maguire went to Man Utd, which has an inferior group of players and an out of depth manager, when he could have stayed and kicked on with us. Because it was Man Utd.

 

Players heads are always turned by big clubs. Champions League doesn't mean we'll keep anyone, or attract anyone better than we already have.

 

Winning a cup may not attract players, but it's a trophy and football is about trophies, not finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th and maybe getting a few games in Europe.

[AyewJoking]

Top 4 and a cup.

 

Just sayin......

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, ThaiFox said:

Of course there is the chance we could attract better players, or hold onto our best ones.

 

However, I still think that if we finish top 4 it wont stop players leaving if it's to a big name club for one minute. Look at Kante as an example. We nearly lost Vardy too and would have if Arsenal could have guaranteed him a starting place every week.

 

Do you honestly think Tielemans, or Maddison would stay with us if we finish 3rd, and Barcelona, Rael Madrid, Man City, PSG etc, came knocking? Or even if a huge club which didn't even qualify for the C/L?

 

And who did we attract by winning the P/L? No-one of note. In fact we signed inferior players to ones we already had!

 

Maguire went to Man Utd, which has an inferior group of players, when he could have stayed and kicked on with us. Because it was Man Utd.

 

Players heads are always turned by big clubs. Champions League doesn't mean we'll keep anyone, or attract anyone better than we already have.

 

Winning a cup may not attract players, but it's a trophy and football is about trophies, not finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

You're absolutely right about us losing players to bigger name clubs with stuffed trophy cabinets.  And while you're technically correct that being in the CL doesn't guarantee we get in better players, it absolutely would help us attract better players than if we weren't in it, and it would make us more attractive to prospective new players than a mid-table club with a one-off FA Cup win. 

 

I don't want to see us win a trophy then shrink into insignificance, I want to see us build sustained success and the trophies that come with it.  You can't do that without consistent high league finishes. 

 

I'm still on record as wanting to show the cup as much importance as the league btw, I'm just saying that if I'm offered one but not the other then I believe it's in the club's best interests to take the 4th place every time, at least for the next few years until we've got a strong global reputation from the CL football and high league finishes.

[lestajigs]

Defo the fa cup for me, that is history, finishing top 4 will be forgotten in years to come

[ThaiFox]

4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

You're absolutely right about us losing players to bigger name clubs with stuffed trophy cabinets.  And while you're technically correct that being in the CL doesn't guarantee we get in better players, it absolutely would help us attract better players than if we weren't in it, and it would make us more attractive to prospective new players than a mid-table club with a one-off FA Cup win. 

 

I don't want to see us win a trophy then shrink into insignificance, I want to see us build sustained success and the trophies that come with it.  You can't do that without consistent high league finishes. 

 

I'm still on record as wanting to show the cup as much importance as the league btw, I'm just saying that if I'm offered one but not the other then I believe it's in the club's best interests to take the 4th place every time, at least for the next few years until we've got a strong global reputation from the CL football and high league finishes.

I can totally understand your point of view. It took me a lot of time to make my decision on a top 4 or cup win.

 

We all want sustained success for the club. Achieving champions league each season doesn't mean we'll win anything (ask Spuds) and out here if I see one Spuds shirt on someone every 6 months it's a lot, so C/L hasn't increased their Asian appeal much!

 

In fact I don't even see people wearing a Man City shirt out here more than once every six months! It's all Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus shirts people are wearing. Teams that have been at the very top for decades.

 

It would take at least a decade of C/L qualifications, probably even needing to win it, to achieve the reputation of a club like Chelsea (who were pretty shite when I was growing up, but the FA cup win raised their profile). We're not based in a part of the country which is considered 'sexy'. That doesn't help either.

 

We are a club which will always be slightly under the radar. I love that about our club. It's what made winning the P/L and the league cups so special for me. Europe is great, but winning a trophy, or a league gives feelings which you just never forget.

 

One of my greatest memories was being at the Orient match where we clinched the (then) second division championship under the great Jock Wallace. Those memories never leave you, and I guarantee if we won the FA cup you'd never ever forget that. Surely that must be better than a few games in Europe, maybe playing a campaign or teams who you'll soon forget?

[NeilLCFC]

Cup runs are great but don’t compare to the games with experienced in the CL