FT General Election Poll 2019

[Kopfkino]

16 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

Here are his precise words: "We need to sort Brexit. I've voted 9 times in Parliament for a deal to do that".

 

So, he didn't claim to have "voted for Brexit", Matt, and he didn't claim to have voted for a specific deal agreed by the EU, Kopf.

 

His words "to do that" clearly refer back to "sort Brexit". So he claimed to have "voted 9 times.....for a deal to [sort Brexit]" 

I'd also like to enthusiastically express my support for a deal to sort Brexit - preferably by burying it under 500m tons of landfill. 

 

Slippery expression by Miliband, I know, but not a lie (unless he didn't do it 9 times) - and if you're expecting politicians not to be slippery, you'll be disappointed.

I can't be arsed to search for leaflets of Tory candidates, but I bet that if I did, we'd find that some of those in Remain-voting constituencies would have a subtly different message from those in Leave seats.

 

 

 

A customs union Brexit or a Norway-style Brexit never existed as actual deals so he didn't vote for a deal at all. A deal usually requires two or more sides to agree to a proposal. Neither the UK nor the EU agreed to either ideas so there was not a deal and therefore Ed Miliband didn't vote for a deal. 

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

Oh come off it, this is absolutely ridiculous. If a Tory was engaging in this sort of misrepresentation you would (quite rightly as well) be calling them out for it.

 

He is trying to manipulate people in his own leave constituency to think he's tried to get Brexit done, the facts are that he simply hasn't. It's absolutely ludicrous to suggest he has.

 

I don't deny that he's trying to manipulate perceptions. Election leaflets of all parties and all candidates tend to do that. It's their aim.

 

No point pursuing this argument further but he did vote to try to get Brexit done/sorted. @Kopfkino has a fair point that he didn't do as much as Kinnock to actively solicit a compromise deal in parliament.

But he did vote for alternative forms of Brexit to the extent that most other MPs did - and not purely for "election optics" as Kopf suggests. I presume that if May/Johnson had invited him to negotiate/vote for a Soft Brexit deal, he'd have done so.

 

 

[davieG]

Leicestershire currently looks blue on the parliamentary political map with Tory MPs returned in all seven of its constituencies in 2017.

Leicester is red with Labour holding its three seats going into the next election.

All the sitting MPs can expect to face a challenge so a number of parties are well advanced in their planning.

These are the candidates we know will be on the ballot paper next time round.

Any prospective parliamentary candidates who have been selected but do not appear on the list should email politics correspondent Dan Martin  - [email protected] - to be included

Bosworth
(Conservative majority 18,351)

Luke Evans – Conservative (incumbent David Tredinnick is retiring)
Mick Gregg - Green
Rick Middlleton -Labour
Michael Mullaney – Liberal Democrats

 

Charnwood
(Conservative majority 16,341)

Ed Argar – Conservative (incumbent)
Gary Godden - Labour
Laurie Needham – Green
Kate Tipton – Liberal Democrat

 

Harborough
(Conservative majority 12,749)

Zuffar Haq – Liberal Democrat
Celia Hibbert - Labour
Robin Lambert - Independent
Neil O’Brien – Conservative (incumbent)
Darren Woodiwiss - Green

 

Leicester East
(2017 Labour majority 22,428)

Tara Baldwin - Brexit Party
Bhupen Dave - Conservative
Nitesh Dave – Liberal Democrat
Sanjay Gogia - Independent
Melanie Wakley - Green
Claudia Webbe - Labour

 

Leicester South
(Labour majority 26,261)

Jon Ashworth - Labour (incumbent)
Chris Coghlan - Liberal Democrat
Mags Lewis - Green
Natalie Neale - Conservative
James Potter - Brexit Party

 

Leicester West
(Labour majority 11,060)

Ian Bradwell - Liberal Democrat
Jack Collier – Brexit Party
Ani Goddard - Green
Liz Kendall - Labour (incumbent)
Amanda Wright - Conservative

Loughborough
(Conservative majority 4,269)

Stuart Brady – Labour
Jane Hunt - Conservative
Ian Sharpe - Liberal Democrat
Queenie Tea - Independent
Wesley Walton - Green

 

North West Leicestershire
(Conservative majority 13,286)

Carl Benfield - Green

Andrew Bridgen – Conservative (incumbent)

Dr Terri Eynon - Labour

Grahame Hudson - Liberal Democrat

Dan Liddicott - Libertarian Party

Edward Nudd - Independent

 

South Leicestershire
(Conservative majority 18,731)

Alberto Costa – Conservative (incumbent)
Nick Cox - Green
Phil Knowles – Liberal Democrat
Tristan Koriya - Labour

 

Rutland and Melton
(Conservative majority 23,104)

Alicia Kearns - Conservative
Marietta king - UKIP
James McQuillan - Green
Andy Thomas - Labour
Anthony Watchorn - Independent (deceased)
Carol Weaver - Liberal Democrat

[Alf Bentley]

8 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

A customs union Brexit or a Norway-style Brexit never existed as actual deals so he didn't vote for a deal at all. A deal usually requires two or more sides to agree to a proposal. Neither the UK nor the EU agreed to either ideas so there was not a deal and therefore Ed Miliband didn't vote for a deal. 

 

 

 

So, before we signed Tielemans, I could not have expressed my support for that "(potential) transfer deal"? I'd have had to refer to a "proposal" or "plan"?

That would be rather pedantic use of language, wouldn't it? A "deal" is generally understood to sometimes be (literally) a "potential deal" that might or might happen.

Otherwise, the question "Is the deal on or off?" could never exist, as by your definition a deal would always have already happened....

 

Enough already! 

[Jon the Hat]

I see the Liberal Democrats are at it again posting fake newspapers through the door in various constituencies.  It's the original fake news.

 

So seeing as we seem to be heading for a Trory majority I take it the Labourites on here will expect Corbyn to finally take the hint and resign as leader?  Hugley important we have a proper opposition in the coming years; so much important legislation will be required, not least the future relationship with the EU, and important trade deals.

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

So, before we signed Tielemans, I could not have expressed my support for that "(potential) transfer deal"? I'd have had to refer to a "proposal" or "plan"?

That would be rather pedantic use of language, wouldn't it? A "deal" is generally understood to sometimes be (literally) a "potential deal" that might or might happen.

Otherwise, the question "Is the deal on or off?" could never exist, as by your definition a deal would always have already happened....

 

Enough already! 

Your argument would be fine if not for the fact that Milliband among others have been wantonly doing everything they can to frustrate the result of the referendum since the result was announced.  To now claim to be on the side of "sorting" Brexit is just utter nonsense and you know it.

[David Guiza]

28 minutes ago, davieG said:

Loughborough
(Conservative majority 4,269)

Stuart Brady – Labour
Jane Hunt - Conservative
Ian Sharpe - Liberal Democrat
Queenie Tea - Independent
Wesley Walton - Green

 

 

That was a Google search that I almost instantly regret... 

[Alf Bentley]

14 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Your argument would be fine if not for the fact that Milliband among others have been wantonly doing everything they can to frustrate the result of the referendum since the result was announced.  To now claim to be on the side of "sorting" Brexit is just utter nonsense and you know it.

 

No. They've been using their power as democratically elected representatives to frustrate (or change) the Tory interpretation of the referendum result. There are multiple interpretations of "Leave the EU".

 

Likewise, the Tories have spent those years using their power as democratically elected representatives to push for their interpretation, to compromise with rebels on their own side and (under May) with the DUP, while excluding alternative interpretations.

 

Unless you somehow have proof that Miliband supported alternative versions of Brexit in the indicative votes but would have opposed them if they'd been agreed deals, then it is not nonsense - and you should know that.

[Facecloth]

34 minutes ago, davieG said:

Leicestershire currently looks blue on the parliamentary political map with Tory MPs returned in all seven of its constituencies in 2017.

Leicester is red with Labour holding its three seats going into the next election.

All the sitting MPs can expect to face a challenge so a number of parties are well advanced in their planning.

These are the candidates we know will be on the ballot paper next time round.

Loughborough
(Conservative majority 4,269)

Stuart Brady – Labour
Jane Hunt - Conservative
Ian Sharpe - Liberal Democrat
Queenie Tea - Independent
Wesley Walton - Green

 

 

 

 

Every candidate in Loughborough is new, having not stood before. Tory majority reduced by half last time, so will be interesting if the all new selections have an effect. I'm sure it'll be blue again, but certainly the closet seat in county.

[Facecloth]

41 minutes ago, davieG said:

 

 

Leicester East
(2017 Labour majority 22,428)

Tara Baldwin - Brexit Party
Bhupen Dave - Conservative
Nitesh Dave – Liberal Democrat
Sanjay Gogia - Independent
Melanie Wakley - Green
Claudia Webbe - Labour

 

 

Are the Tory and Lib Dem candidates related?  

[Alf Bentley]

12 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Are the Tory and Lib Dem candidates related?  

 

I heard their brother Call Me Dave is standing in Witney.

[Kopfkino]

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

So, before we signed Tielemans, I could not have expressed my support for that "(potential) transfer deal"? I'd have had to refer to a "proposal" or "plan"?

That would be rather pedantic use of language, wouldn't it? A "deal" is generally understood to sometimes be (literally) a "potential deal" that might or might happen.

Otherwise, the question "Is the deal on or off?" could never exist, as by your definition a deal would always have already happened....

 

Enough already! 

If you expressed support for us to come to an agreement to sign Tielemans for £25m and then the deal came back as £32m and you rejected it, then it'd be absurd to say you supported a deal for Tielemans. You supported something that didn't exist and rejected what did exist.

And it is exactly what happened when Boris initially sent his proposals to the EU and then when people referred to it as the 'Boris deal' you'd hear "for it to be a deal the EU has to agree, they're just proposals". 

[Jon the Hat]

5 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I heard their brother Call Me Dave is standing in Witney.

Alright Dave is in the Brexit party.

[Voll Blau]

 

If the Beeb agree to this then their editorial integrity is fvcking toast. And if I were Andrew Neil, I'd resign in protest.

[Alf Bentley]

7 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

If you expressed support for us to come to an agreement to sign Tielemans for £25m and then the deal came back as £32m and you rejected it, then it'd be absurd to say you supported a deal for Tielemans. You supported something that didn't exist and rejected what did exist.

And it is exactly what happened when Boris initially sent his proposals to the EU and then when people referred to it as the 'Boris deal' you'd hear "for it to be a deal the EU has to agree, they're just proposals". 

 

Hypothetically, it would be a perfectly reasonable stance to say: "I supported us doing a deal for Tielemans at £25m, but £32m is too much. If that was the only deal Monaco would do, we should have bought someone else".

 

That's what Miliband did. Having been (I presume) a Remainer, he was prepared to vote "to sort Brexit" or for a Brexit deal - but not the one on offer from the Tory Govt. 

Depends whether you can refer to a potential deal as "a deal". I think you can. You seem to disagree. So, presumably to you the question "is the deal on or off?" is a logical impossibility. You'd have to ask "Is the proposal now a deal?" or similar.....

 

I'm out of this circular pedantry! 

[The Horse's Mouth]

I don't get why Boris is being such a woofter, surely he cant be as dismantled as Corbs was?

[UpTheLeagueFox]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

Leicester East
(2017 Labour majority 22,428)

Tara Baldwin - Brexit Party
Bhupen Dave - Conservative
Nitesh Dave – Liberal Democrat
Sanjay Gogia - Independent
Melanie Wakley - Green
Claudia Webbe - Labour

 

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

Are the Tory and Lib Dem candidates related?  

Dave is not their actual surnames.
It's "Rodney."

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

Every candidate in Loughborough is new, having not stood before. Tory majority reduced by half last time, so will be interesting if the all new selections have an effect. I'm sure it'll be blue again, but certainly the closet seat in county.

No certainty at all about that if internal polling in Leicester East is accurate.

[Alf Bentley]

27 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I don't get why Boris is being such a woofter, surely he cant be as dismantled as Corbs was?

 

If he's trying to avoid a Neil interview, it will be precisely because he knows that he could be dismantled as Corbyn apparently was.

Neil is a brutally good interviewer capable of exposing anyone's weaknesses, inconsistency or dishonesty.

 

As for "why", why do teams take the ball into the corner flag late in a close match that they're winning?

To avoid unnecessary risk of the opposition getting a chance to change the result of the match.

 

Risking a public dismantling by Neil is like a team risking the opposition getting possession and scoring a winner/equaliser.

But it should be the job of the BBC to make sure there's a level playing-field - that all leaders have the same risk of being dismantled.

 

(pssst! I'm sure no unpleasantness was intended but think "woofter" is seen as a homophobic term & might bring the mods down on your head. ) 

[The Horse's Mouth]

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

If he's trying to avoid a Neil interview, it will be precisely because he knows that he could be dismantled as Corbyn apparently was.

Neil is a brutally good interviewer capable of exposing anyone's weaknesses, inconsistency or dishonesty.

 

As for "why", why do teams take the ball into the corner flag late in a close match that they're winning?

To avoid unnecessary risk of the opposition getting a chance to change the result of the match.

 

Risking a public dismantling by Neil is like a team risking the opposition getting possession and scoring a winner/equaliser.

But it should be the job of the BBC to make sure there's a level playing-field - that all leaders have the same risk of being dismantled.

 

(pssst! I'm sure no unpleasantness was intended but think "woofter" is seen as a homophobic term & might bring the mods down on your head. ) 

For the base hes trying to win and the image hes trying to set, it seems like he'll do more damage not doing it than doing it. Only thing I can see working in his favour is theres still 2 weeks or so to go so a good chance its forgotten by then. 

[EnderbyFox]

 

[Facecloth]

*allegedly

[UniFox21]

 

[Lionator]

22 hours ago, MattP said:

If he were to turn it down they should actually do that.

 

It would be completely unacceptable for every leader to be scrutinised by Neil except the Prime Minister - I'll make a promise here, if he doesn't do it. I won't vote for him. A coward can't get my vote to lead the country. 

Fair play if you do stick to this, it's looking increasingly more likely that he wont agree to the interview.

 

 

[Lionator]

3 hours ago, davieG said:

Leicester East
(2017 Labour majority 22,428)

Tara Baldwin - Brexit Party
Bhupen Dave - Conservative
Nitesh Dave – Liberal Democrat
Sanjay Gogia - Independent
Melanie Wakley - Green
Claudia Webbe - Labour

 

 

There were actually several great local Labour candidates who would've been a great replacement for the dreadful Mr. Vaz however Claudia Webbe, a Corbyn ally got jettisoned into the position (she did grow up in Leicester but as far as I'm aware has very little link to the city in her adult life).