Getting brexit done!

[Voll Blau]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Empathy and relatability are not his forte - anyway, she probably just told him he needs a bloody haircut and he took offence

She'd be right. Guy's a proper scruff in that ill-fitting suit too. Always had Tories down as snappy dressers, but it just seems to be Portillo upholding that rep these days.

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

She'd be right. Guy's a proper scruff in that ill-fitting suit too. Always had Tories down as snappy dressers, but it just seems to be Portillo upholding that rep these days.

Mid level Tory toffs wear suits, elite level tory toffs wear bin bags. 

[yorkie1999]

6 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Empathy and relatability are not his forte - anyway, she probably just told him he needs a bloody haircut and he took offence

He's also talking about fixing the price of handbags. Why can't he just come out and say, the deal on the table is the EU won't apply tariffs on UK goods if we promise not to undercut the EU and blow french fishing boats out of the North Sea which makes it a pointless deal.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

He's also talking about fixing the price of handbags. Why can't he just come out and say, the deal on the table is the EU won't apply tariffs on UK goods if we promise not to undercut the EU and blow french fishing boats out of the North Sea which makes it a pointless deal.

Never going to be a deal if blowing up french fishing boats is a condition, we aren’t monsters, even if they are French

[Buce]

 

Time for a reminder about who said what:

 

Paul Nuttal: "It will be so easy to negotiate a trade deal"

Gerard Batten "A trade deal with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee"

Douglas Carswell: "I think free trade would be relatively straightforward between the UK and America"

David Davis: "You can be sure there will be a deal"

Boris Johnson: "There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal"

Liam Fox: "The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"

Michael Gove said that 'we'd hold all the cards' after leaving the European Union

John Redwood: "Getting out the EU can be quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation"

David Davis: "We can do deals with our trading partners, and we can do them quickly. I would expect the Prime Minister to immediately trigger a large round of trade deals..."

David Davis (again): "Within minutes of a vote for Brexit, CEOs would be knocking down Chancellor Merkell's door demanding access to the British market"

Douglass Carswell: "I think we could very easily get a trade deal better than the one we have at the moment"

Boris Johnson: No Deal would be a "failure of diplomacy..."

 

Well, that all aged well.

Edited 10 December 2020 by Buce

[Buce]

.

Edited 10 December 2020 by Buce

[Manwell Pablo]

20 hours ago, leicsmac said:

I actually don't believe the bolded, but not for the most obvious reason.

 

I have little reason to doubt the analysts opinion that the UK could take on either China or Russia conventionally and, given good selection of time and place, win. However, in such a situation I would also posit that either nation involved would consider the penalty for losing such a conflict unacceptable, and as any potential party are armed with nuclear weapons, escalation to that stage by the party that looked like it was going to lose conventionally would be not only a possibility, but an extreme probability.

 

As such, I think the UK's ability to defeat either China or Russia conventionally is certainly possible, but also irrelevant.

Oh I totally agree.

 

Hence why I say I say the amount we've over invested in our armed forces is not something I agree with. And also why a conventional EU army serves little purpose, I don’t think a lot of people quite grasp how overly kitted out we are especially the RAF. We have enough to bully nearly any country in the world without anyone else getting involved in it, and as you say, should any full scale war ever occur with another large nation, which it surely wouldn’t but anyway, the outcome would eventually end up in nuclear war. Which we will always lose due to the size of our country.

 

So what’s the point having as much as we have, never mind an EU army.

 

 

[Mike Oxlong]

[Spudulike]

3 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Time for a reminder about who said what:

 

Paul Nuttal: "It will be so easy to negotiate a trade deal"

Gerard Batten "A trade deal with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee"

Douglas Carswell: "I think free trade would be relatively straightforward between the UK and America"

David Davis: "You can be sure there will be a deal"

Boris Johnson: "There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal"

Liam Fox: "The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"

Michael Gove said that 'we'd hold all the cards' after leaving the European Union

John Redwood: "Getting out the EU can be quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation"

David Davis: "We can do deals with our trading partners, and we can do them quickly. I would expect the Prime Minister to immediately trigger a large round of trade deals..."

David Davis (again): "Within minutes of a vote for Brexit, CEOs would be knocking down Chancellor Merkell's door demanding access to the British market"

Douglass Carswell: "I think we could very easily get a trade deal better than the one we have at the moment"

Boris Johnson: No Deal would be a "failure of diplomacy..."

 

Well, that all aged well.

Probably not a good idea to include the Liam Fox quote (should). Its says just as much about EU negotiators as ours. 

[Corky]

Carole Malone being very disparaging on Sky News, saying anyone who believed the comments about the oven ready deal were being stupid.

 

Why on earth they have her on spouting her nonsense is beyond me. Fortunately her connection cut out at one point but sadly it came back.

[bovril]

14 minutes ago, Corky said:

Carole Malone being very disparaging on Sky News, saying anyone who believed the comments about the oven ready deal were being stupid.

 

Why on earth they have her on spouting her nonsense is beyond me. Fortunately her connection cut out at one point but sadly it came back.

Great to see we have some of the finest political minds debating one of the important moments in this country's recent history. 

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, Mike Oxlong said:

I'm no Tory apologist but to keep on quoting this oven ready deal stuff is beyond ridiculous given that it was clearly referring to the Withdrawal agreement as stated in the Conservative manifesto. Even the opposition party leader now understands this eventhough some of his MP's (Rachel Reeves) don't (they do actually but like to play on voters lack of knowledge). Sorry, not a dig at you Mike, but it's so tedious. 

[Mike Oxlong]

6 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

I'm no Tory apologist but to keep on quoting this oven ready deal stuff is beyond ridiculous given that it was clearly referring to the Withdrawal agreement as stated in the Conservative manifesto. Even the opposition party leader now understands this eventhough some of his MP's (Rachel Reeves) don't (they do actually but like to play on voters lack of knowledge). Sorry, not a dig at you Mike, but it's so tedious. 

 No offence taken Spud

 

Boris is a twat

 

I’ve no shame in making even unmeritorious digs at him 

[Facecloth]

2 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

I'm no Tory apologist but to keep on quoting this oven ready deal stuff is beyond ridiculous given that it was clearly referring to the Withdrawal agreement as stated in the Conservative manifesto. Even the opposition party leader now understands this eventhough some of his MP's (Rachel Reeves) don't (they do actually but like to play on voters lack of knowledge). Sorry, not a dig at you Mike, but it's so tedious. 

This would be the same Withdrawal agreement Johnson now claims makes no sense, despite the fact he negotiated it, persuaded parliament to vote on it, signed it and won an election promising to implement it, that he's now threatening to renege on.

 

BTW, whilst it was in the manifesto, he knew full well the majority of people won't have read that. Now that's their fault for not doing so, but he wasn't clear when speaking about it. I don't think I ever heard him utter the words withdrawel agreement when talking about the oven ready deal.

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

Oh I totally agree.

 

Hence why I say I say the amount we've over invested in our armed forces is not something I agree with. And also why a conventional EU army serves little purpose, I don’t think a lot of people quite grasp how overly kitted out we are especially the RAF. We have enough to bully nearly any country in the world without anyone else getting involved in it, and as you say, should any full scale war ever occur with another large nation, which it surely wouldn’t but anyway, the outcome would eventually end up in nuclear war. Which we will always lose due to the size of our country.

 

So what’s the point having as much as we have, never mind an EU army.

 

 

Yep, entirely agreed.

 

And tbh a nuclear war is one everyone loses, regardless of participant.

[Spudulike]

5 hours ago, Facecloth said:

This would be the same Withdrawal agreement Johnson now claims makes no sense, despite the fact he negotiated it, persuaded parliament to vote on it, signed it and won an election promising to implement it, that he's now threatening to renege on.

 

BTW, whilst it was in the manifesto, he knew full well the majority of people won't have read that. Now that's their fault for not doing so, but he wasn't clear when speaking about it. I don't think I ever heard him utter the words withdrawel agreement when talking about the oven ready deal.

I don't believe or trust any politicians of whatever colour. I deliberately spoiled my paper at the last GE as a protest. Won't make any difference but at least it was recorded rather than not voting. 

[Facecloth]

53 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

I don't believe or trust any politicians of whatever colour. I deliberately spoiled my paper at the last GE as a protest. Won't make any difference but at least it was recorded rather than not voting. 

That's nice, but its not about you, it about the millions who did believe him.

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

That's nice, but its not about you, it about the millions who did believe him.

It is, but its not about Boris either (He is just the majority party elected leader, could be Starmer, could be Corbyn, etc), its about the public's disenfranchisement with politics on the whole. Brexit on the whole is pertinent, your guy/gal in the street is not detail orientated (Yes, it is a sweeping statement, but one I stand by) when it comes to politics. it is commonplace to not spot the difference between reality and assumption. 

So we either re-engage on a large scale or we find a better way for the information to be delivered.

[ozleicester]

Its laughable that the yanks were stupid but their issue will begin being resolved in January.

The UK will be suffering their stupidity for decades to come.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

Its laughable that the yanks were stupid but their issue will begin being resolved in January.

The UK will be suffering their stupidity for decades to come.

 

[Lionator]

Just to add they’re saying an ‘Australian deal’ instead of no deal because they know how damaging it’ll be. Australia has massive trade deals with its nearest neighbours in Asia. We won’t anything like the same.

 

We’re being lied to and gaslighted because Tories think the nation is stupid. 

[Voll Blau]

 

Arf. Cut and dry here for anyone still trying to play clever dick semantics around the WA/deal issue.

[ozleicester]

33 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Just to add they’re saying an ‘Australian deal’ instead of no deal because they know how damaging it’ll be. Australia has massive trade deals with its nearest neighbours in Asia. We won’t anything like the same.

 

We’re being lied to and gaslighted because Tories think the nation is stupid. 

Just out of interest, our biggest trading partner is China... which is currently playing a fantastic game of "screw the aussies" by putting tarrifs on everything to punish us.

Laughable

[WigstonWanderer]

9 hours ago, Spudulike said:

I'm no Tory apologist but to keep on quoting this oven ready deal stuff is beyond ridiculous given that it was clearly referring to the Withdrawal agreement as stated in the Conservative manifesto. Even the opposition party leader now understands this eventhough some of his MP's (Rachel Reeves) don't (they do actually but like to play on voters lack of knowledge). Sorry, not a dig at you Mike, but it's so tedious. 

And it was said with all the sincerity of a second hand car salesman. He’s now pointing out the details in the fine print that limit the warranty. I’m quite sure it was anything but clear to a great many of the people who voted for Bozo. An obvious (and successful) attempt to hoodwink the electorate.

Edited 11 December 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[WigstonWanderer]

49 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Just to add they’re saying an ‘Australian deal’ instead of no deal because they know how damaging it’ll be. Australia has massive trade deals with its nearest neighbours in Asia. We won’t anything like the same.

 

We’re being lied to and gaslighted because Tories think the nation is stupid. 

Just to add, Australia’s exports to the EU amount to about 8% of the total. Nothing like a comparable situation to the UK.