Emphasis on Carabao Cup is costing us

[Manini]

No it isn’t. 
 

Forgetting how to play football completely and setting up with the same tactical plan as Ibstock Welfare is costing us. 

Edited 28 December 2019 by Manini

[Deeg67]

I've only ever cared about this cup when we needed it to get to Europe.  I'd put in a bit of effort in the FA Cup but this one, the cardinal rule should be to do nothing that could potentially jeopardize us in a league match.  If you can win it while resting players for games that matter, fine.

 

Of course the reality is, without having European matches to worry about - like most of our rivals for 4th - we can cautiously go after both domestic cups without hurting ourselves much in real matches.

 

Edited 28 December 2019 by Deeg67

[shailen]

It's definitely not fatigue. Vardy still looks fresh as anyone and he's played pretty much every minute of every game.

 

We have been tactically naive in the last two games. It is brave to try and outplay the best two club teams in the world - we didn't even try to shut off their obvious threats in de bruyne and TAA. 

 

I like Rodgers and he has done amazingly well for us but I'm a little worried about his tactics in the big games. We are not yet the finished article and so approaching these games in the way we have recently is literally like we are a lamb ready for slaughter. 

[Heathrow fox]

8 hours ago, tickler28 said:

We've gone all out to get to the Semi Final of the Carabao Cup and personally I think it's cost us in recent games with fatigue setting in. Many of you may disagree but I'd personally swap the Semi of the League Cup for 2 more points v Norwich and 1 against City and Liverpool but we've made it clear that our objective is to go for a cup. We simply don't have the squad depth to expect to play our strongest team week in week out and still get results.

 

I can never get anywhere near as excited about the League Cup v Premier League....the Premier League means so much more. If we were mid table I'd understand going for a cup but with top 4 a realistic possibility surely that's far more important than the League Cup which merely gets you a place in the Europa League.

 

If we were to win the League Cup and finish the season 6th getting into the Europa League we'd all be desperately disappointed yet we seem hell bent on winning a cup we've won 3 times before and has little to no prestige.

 

Top 4 is priority for me.....by a million miles.

 

Discuss.

 

You would think the squad would  be able to cope with a potential 3 extra games.Whilst not throwing away our high league position🤞I do agree that a top 4 finish trumps a L/C win.

 

[womp]

2 hours ago, shailen said:

It's definitely not fatigue. Vardy still looks fresh as anyone and he's played pretty much every minute of every game.

 

We have been tactically naive in the last two games. It is brave to try and outplay the best two club teams in the world - we didn't even try to shut off their obvious threats in de bruyne and TAA. 

 

I like Rodgers and he has done amazingly well for us but I'm a little worried about his tactics in the big games. We are not yet the finished article and so approaching these games in the way we have recently is literally like we are a lamb ready for slaughter. 

And what tactics would have prefered?

[jayfox26]

10 minutes ago, womp said:

And what tactics would have prefered?

Maybe not making the same mistakes as the Man City game would be a start. Mixing it up a bit rather than playing tippy tappy in our own box when we have Salah and mane running at us would be another. Playing Maddison in his actual position rather than out wide would be another. Resting players who look tired and haven't performed well recently like Barnes and Tielemans would be another. Playing Hamza alongside Ndidi for a bit more defensive cover would be another. Playing Albrighton on the left so Chilwell isn't left completely exposed would be another. I could go on and on but I'm no expert. I love Brendan but he got it horribly wrong in the games against Man City and Liverpool. No issue with losing these games but our performances and the same mistakes being made was really poor! 

[womp]

So playing 2 DM's is the only change then.the rest isnt tactical.

IMO,

Maddison is learning to be flexible and play anywhere basically, albrighton just gets it and crosses it most times which is not what they want attacking.

Chillwell is going to be exposed more so is going have to learn to cope.

They probably leant more about themselves and where they are at than the rest of the time.

 

[shailen]

5 hours ago, womp said:

And what tactics would have prefered?

Doing more to stop de bruyne and TAA in both games. Whether that meant bringing in Hamza alongside Ndidi or a defensive winger like Albrighton on the left, I'm not sure, but that would have helped us to become more solid defensively. 

 

I'm not saying that would have changed the end result but it was too easy for both teams to get space and time in our defensive third. 

 

Think MOTD exposed our press as well against Liverpool which was half hearted. It seemed as though the players were unsure whether to press or to stand off and ended up doing neither.

As much as I love Rodgers, it is his job to ensure he puts confidence in the players to go with whatever tactical plan he has come up with for the game.

[tickler28]

The point that I was making was that anything other than points and performances in the league this season is unconsequential when you are chasing a champions League spot.

 

At the end of the season if it comes down to a choice of needing 1 point to finish top 4 or having our name on the Carabao Cup there really is only one answer to this question.

 

Id love to think we can achieve both objectives this season but the sheer importance and value of finishing in the top 4 far outweighs the cups

Edited 28 December 2019 by tickler28

[willie-bell-in-rothley]

19 hours ago, tickler28 said:

We've gone all out to get to the Semi Final of the Carabao Cup and personally I think it's cost us in recent games with fatigue setting in. Many of you may disagree but I'd personally swap the Semi of the League Cup for 2 more points v Norwich and 1 against City and Liverpool but we've made it clear that our objective is to go for a cup. We simply don't have the squad depth to expect to play our strongest team week in week out and still get results.

 

I can never get anywhere near as excited about the League Cup v Premier League....the Premier League means so much more. If we were mid table I'd understand going for a cup but with top 4 a realistic possibility surely that's far more important than the League Cup which merely gets you a place in the Europa League.

 

If we were to win the League Cup and finish the season 6th getting into the Europa League we'd all be desperately disappointed yet we seem hell bent on winning a cup we've won 3 times before and has little to no prestige.

 

Top 4 is priority for me.....by a million miles.

 

Discuss.

 

Costing us what ?.... we're in the top 4

[coolhandfox]

Look at Spurs, consist top four but criticised for lack of Trophies.

 

To back in to the top 4/6 consistently we need to win things, winning things boost the club profile. 

 

Chelsea and Man City have built over the years on League cups and FA cups, not just top four.

[Chrysalis]

21 hours ago, tickler28 said:

We've gone all out to get to the Semi Final of the Carabao Cup and personally I think it's cost us in recent games with fatigue setting in. Many of you may disagree but I'd personally swap the Semi of the League Cup for 2 more points v Norwich and 1 against City and Liverpool but we've made it clear that our objective is to go for a cup. We simply don't have the squad depth to expect to play our strongest team week in week out and still get results.

 

I can never get anywhere near as excited about the League Cup v Premier League....the Premier League means so much more. If we were mid table I'd understand going for a cup but with top 4 a realistic possibility surely that's far more important than the League Cup which merely gets you a place in the Europa League.

 

If we were to win the League Cup and finish the season 6th getting into the Europa League we'd all be desperately disappointed yet we seem hell bent on winning a cup we've won 3 times before and has little to no prestige.

 

Top 4 is priority for me.....by a million miles.

 

Discuss.

 

Its not like we fielded a weakened team in those league games.

 

Also realistically we were never in a title race, so taking that into account would I trade 3-6 points to lose a cup win, absolutely not.  2nd vs 3rd,4th place is nothing, all qualify for CL.  A cup win is a cup win, remembered in all history.

Edited 28 December 2019 by Chrysalis
way I worded was confusing

[Sol thewall Bamba]

What a horrendous take. OP should be banned imo. 

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Look at Spurs, consist top four but criticised for lack of Trophies.

 

To back in to the top 4/6 consistently we need to win things, winning things boost the club profile. 

 

Chelsea and Man City have built over the years on League cups and FA cups, not just top four.

 

If we're going to keep the best players in our squad and improve the team we really need to get CL football this season.

 

A Europa Cup place and the Carabao Cup winners won't be enough to fend off interest from the bigger clubs in the summer. Whilst the Carabao Cup is great for the fans and a great day for everyone at the club it will be of little worth when trying to attract and more importantly keep our best players. Top four is far more important for the club's profile and forward planning but we could still do both. 

[urban fox]

All this talk of fatigue is bllx. These are professional athletes. Tennis players play up to 4 hour matches every other day in grand slams and don’t complain. Absolutely no reason why we should not go for cup and league position. If making changes for cup games this is more to do with giving game time to fringe players 5han resting regular starters. There is just no pleasing some people. Moaned when we “didn’t take cup seriously and it’s disrespectful of the manager” now we put out a strong side get to the semis and it’s poor management risking fatigue when we have league games coming up.

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, urban fox said:

All this talk of fatigue is bllx. These are professional athletes. Tennis players play up to 4 hour matches every other day in grand slams and don’t complain. Absolutely no reason why we should not go for cup and league position. If making changes for cup games this is more to do with giving game time to fringe players 5han resting regular starters. There is just no pleasing some people. Moaned when we “didn’t take cup seriously and it’s disrespectful of the manager” now we put out a strong side get to the semis and it’s poor management risking fatigue when we have league games coming up.

An egg is not an apple .....

[Anglodanglo]

Nail on head.

It's astonishing the best we can hope for this disappointing season is Champions League qualification & a Cup Final.

 

To make matters worse, we go and put out a 2nd team against West Ham that only yielded 3 points.

 

What on earth has happened to us.

[TJB-fox]

Honestly if you genuinely think like this OP and are one of the fans that has moaned massively over the past week or so about our young players, or about Rodgers, or about getting beat by Liverpool and Man City then honestly fvck off and support Barcelona because I’m bored of hearing utter shite from our ungrateful, undeserving and spoilt fan base.

[Chocolate Teapot]

This is some thread.

[Chrysalis]

8 minutes ago, TJB-fox said:

Honestly if you genuinely think like this OP and are one of the fans that has moaned massively over the past week or so about our young players, or about Rodgers, or about getting beat by Liverpool and Man City then honestly fvck off and support Barcelona because I’m bored of hearing utter shite from our ungrateful, undeserving and spoilt fan base.

Are you one of those people who only thinks in black and white only seeing extremes.  As you seem to be implying that people have no right to lay any criticism, I haven't heard anyone not one single person who was mad we lost those games, but rather they were unhappy in about the "manner" we lost.  There is a very clear difference.

 

Also I see a touch of age bias in your post as you seem to be implying its ok to moan about old players but not young players.

 

By the way for reference I don't agree with the OP's opinion, but the OP has every right to have a vent. 

Edited 28 December 2019 by Chrysalis

[Goober]

4 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Are you one of those people who only thinks in black and white only seeing extremes.  As you seem to be implying that people have no right to lay any criticism, I haven't heard anyone not one single person who was mad we lost those games, but rather they were unhappy in about the "manner" we lost.  There is a very clear difference.

 

Also I see a touch of age bias in your post as you seem to be implying its ok to moan about old players but not young players.

 

By the way for reference I don't agree with the OP's opinion, but the OP has every right to have a vent. 

Think it's more the fact that people were genuinely questioning Brendan and the players, crying that we were going to finish 7th and were being all round miserable, weird bastards despite the fact we're 2nd and in a semi-final tbf.

 

The last week was disappointing no doubt and there are definitely issues we need to iron out in terms of our set up against the bigger sides, but the meltdown on here has been pathetic.

[Chrysalis]

Yes people tend to overreact to results, it happens.  That's what a football forum has, its what people do.  

 

I did fear we may collapse over the season as it has happened in the past, but also think its more likely it will be business as usual and we end up been top 4 with 70+ points.

 

I have tried to stress its been an excellent season, 2nd place at Christmas and in a semi final.  But at the same time people have the right to debate, moan, whatever you want to call it about what happens in games and the personnel at the club.

[OntarioFox]

Pffft, speak for yourself, I would WAY rather win silverware than guarantee an extra 4-6 points in the league.

 

It's not like it's even really cost us. We're sat in second, 12 clear of 5th, but realistically Liverpool are uncatchable and were even before our recent poor results.

 

Win the cup and guarantee Europa before Spring, with a view to then bettering it with a Champions League finish? Absolute no-brainer.

[TJB-fox]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

Are you one of those people who only thinks in black and white only seeing extremes.  As you seem to be implying that people have no right to lay any criticism, I haven't heard anyone not one single person who was mad we lost those games, but rather they were unhappy in about the "manner" we lost.  There is a very clear difference.

 

Also I see a touch of age bias in your post as you seem to be implying its ok to moan about old players but not young players.

 

By the way for reference I don't agree with the OP's opinion, but the OP has every right to have a vent. 

Nope. Fans have every right to exercise their opinions and criticism (TO AN EXTENT) but a lot of the moaning I see from our fan base is ridiculous frankly. I’m in the agreement that the matter in which we played against Liverpool + Man City was incredibly disappointing. I was disappointed after both those games that we’d not done ourselves justice. What I won’t sit and listen to though is fans absolutely lambasting certain players or Rodgers for underperforming in a few games because they’ve got used to us turning up and steamrolling the opposition. 

 

In terms of age, not really that bias. I think that the younger lads get a lot of unwarranted abuse, aside from maybe our title winning club captain. I’ve seen countless posts slating Barnes, Chilwell and Gray, but in a really poor manner. 

 

In reference to the highlighted part, does he have every right to vent- really? I think you’re a spoilt brat and a bit of a moron if you’ve been moaning bigtime the past week or so because of a few slightly below par performances. It’s now gone christmas and were second in the league and in a league cup semi final. I’m not saying we should accept or allow any mediocrity to slip into our play but honestly what more do people want? It’s genuinely like some fans sit at home and think hmmm I’m bored who can I abuse today or what can I moan about. A large section of our fan base is fvucking shite and doesn’t deserve our owners, manager or players. 

Rant over. Great result tonight, onto Newcastle. Up the boys

[tickler28]

Just to be straight on this I want to clarify a few points.

 

Never have I once slagged off the players or Rodgers in this thread merely the impact of playing a full strength team in the cup.

 

Perhaps it would have made no difference in the tough matches v Man City and Liverpool I just felt a day off for the first team players at Goodison would have been my preferred choice.

 

Tonights match clearly showed that we have a reserve team that's half decent and I am still confused as to why some of these players weren't used at Goodison to give the other guys a rest.