Ginger_Filbert Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 Alarming news to wake up to this morning with Iran firing 22 missiles at a US air base. It seems that up until now there are no casualties, so what are people’s thoughts on this? Im not sure what Trump expected to happen and am very nervous about how he will reply, will his ego get the better of him? I have seen things on Twitter (not very reliable I know) saying that if America responds with force, then the next wave of missiles from Iran will take out both Dubai and Haifa. I’d love to hear other people’s opinions on this.
StanSP Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 5 minutes ago, Ginger_Filbert said: It seems that up until now there are no casualties, so what are people’s thoughts on this? 20 troops have died apparently as a result of this. My thoughts? War is never the answer and only serves to cause more trouble, not peace. It causes more devastation, destruction and does far more harm than good in the long run. Trump is not one to back down either. In his mind he sees it as some kind of game that only he can win. And that's dangerous.
Lionator Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 I know nearly all war is pointless, but this truly would be the ultimate pointless war, what are they even fighting over? What is the end game? Maybe Trump is pushing it to the brink like he did with NK so that then he can pull back and look like a miracle ‘peace broker’.
Ginger_Filbert Posted 8 January 2020 Author Posted 8 January 2020 5 minutes ago, StanSP said: 20 troops have died apparently as a result of this. My thoughts? War is never the answer and only serves to cause more trouble, not peace. It causes more devastation, destruction and does far more harm than good in the long run. Trump is not one to back down either. In his mind he sees it as some kind of game that only he can win. And that's dangerous. I hadn’t seen the reports of 20 deaths, are the American troops? Agree with the other poster that this could lead to the most pointless ego prompted war.
stripeyfox Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 2 minutes ago, StanSP said: 20 troops have died apparently as a result of this. My thoughts? War is never the answer and only serves to cause more trouble, not peace. It causes more devastation, destruction and does far more harm than good in the long run. Trump is not one to back down either. In his mind he sees it as some kind of game that only he can win. And that's dangerous. BBC reporting either "no casualties" or "unclear if there are any casualties" Even the Donald has tweeted "all is well" This is just posturing. Neither country wants a war. This just allows Iran to say "we hit them back" and everyone can go back to normal..... Hopefully...
The Syrup Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 We also have the Ukrainian airlines crash in Iran as well. Could well be a coincidence but it suffered a catastrophic incident at 8000 ft. Plane was on fire long before hitting the ground and no mayday call. Rogue missile, trigger happy air defences like with MH17 over Ukraine. 170+ people dead either way
VLC86 Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 25 minutes ago, The Syrup said: We also have the Ukrainian airlines crash in Iran as well. Could well be a coincidence but it suffered a catastrophic incident at 8000 ft. Plane was on fire long before hitting the ground and no mayday call. Rogue missile, trigger happy air defences like with MH17 over Ukraine. 170+ people dead either way Sounds very suspicious to me.
The Syrup Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 Various reports saying the air crash had 73 Canadian nationals on board. Possibly Iranian Canadian dual nationality students heading to Toronto via Kiev.
Sol thewall Bamba Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 45 minutes ago, The Syrup said: We also have the Ukrainian airlines crash in Iran as well. Could well be a coincidence but it suffered a catastrophic incident at 8000 ft. Plane was on fire long before hitting the ground and no mayday call. Rogue missile, trigger happy air defences like with MH17 over Ukraine. 170+ people dead either way Yeah I can't see that being a con-incidence. Just outside Tehran as well?
Aus Fox Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 57 minutes ago, StanSP said: 20 troops have died apparently as a result of this. My thoughts? War is never the answer and only serves to cause more trouble, not peace. It causes more devastation, destruction and does far more harm than good in the long run. Trump is not one to back down either. In his mind he sees it as some kind of game that only he can win. And that's dangerous. Can you send me a link to the report of 20 dead, everything on the radio I listened to today said either no casualties or unclear. I was hoping (maybe dreaming) that both governments could walk away having flexed their muscles with kids further casualties. If 20 troops have been killed, you can be certain Trump will respond.
StanSP Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 Sorry that 20 people killed is just from a tweet from a verified account I saw. Ignore.
Crinklyfox Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 US military capability is greater than Iran's. The danger is that the hawks in the US military and government convince Trump to use this situation to their advantage and attack Iran. That could quickly escalate into a regional conflict. I'm hoping that Trumps allies can convince him that war is not the only option.
SpacedX Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 1 hour ago, Ginger_Filbert said: Alarming news to wake up to this morning with Iran firing 22 missiles at a US air base. It seems that up until now there are no casualties, so what are people’s thoughts on this? Im not sure what Trump expected to happen and am very nervous about how he will reply, will his ego get the better of him? I have seen things on Twitter (not very reliable I know) saying that if America responds with force, then the next wave of missiles from Iran will take out both Dubai and Haifa. I’d love to hear other people’s opinions on this. Posted this on the 'In the News' thread. Following the bellicose inflammatory tweets of the weekend, I say this tentatively, but his reaction seems quite circumspect. There is no doubt that the response from Tehran was designed to appease public outrage which is why the Iranian press are immediately reporting casualties whereas there is no confirmation of this, The decision to assassinate Soleimani wasn't some rash impulsive act of arbitrary recklessness on behalf of Donald Trump, this goes much deeper and is far more calculated than that. This was a planned objective on behalf of the Pentagon, key military officials and years of intelligence. The fact he gave the order for the air strike conveniently appeals to our view of his impetuous nature, which is most convenient to the senior advisers and strategists pulling the strings and dangling the Trump puppet on the world's stage, having orchestrated this in the long-term. Is the world a safer place without Soleimani? Undoubtedly. Was he a major destabilising influence in the Middle East? Definitely. Does the Iranian government want to go to war with America? Of course not. Will there be further 'officially' sanctioned attacks on US airbases? Probably not. The concern lies with the imminent response from global state sponsored militia, the threat of international terrorism and once again the innocent bloodshed associated with American hegemony - flexing its muscles as a self-appointed international 'security' force.
Jon the Hat Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 Looks like a deliberate miss from Iran, on a very large base or two chosen so they could hit some old kit and not escalate anything. Iran are a problem though, they fund terrorism all over the place; hard to deal with.
ozleicester Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 46 minutes ago, Aus Fox said: Can you send me a link to the report of 20 dead, everything on the radio I listened to today said either no casualties or unclear. I was hoping (maybe dreaming) that both governments could walk away having flexed their muscles with kids further casualties. If 20 troops have been killed, you can be certain Trump will respond. think its Iran media that are claiming deaths
Guest Kopfkino Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 We hope that Trump's tweet and the lack of news on casualties (plus news that Iraqi, Canadian and UK personnel are fine) means everything is OK on that front, it's what I'd expect but still need confirmation. If there turns out to be casualties then most of what I'm about to say will be wrong. It was quite incredible seeing twitter as it unfolded last night, the dissoluteness of people panicking them themselves into a frenzy, even from people that should know better, was the most alarming thing. Too many people thinking it was like the Blitz rather than Iran firing missiles at vast bits of desert, albeit symbolic bits. Moreover, they signalled their intentions in the last few days (maybe even sent a message through the back channels) and the US knew to be prepared. It's not ideal but didn't require the reactions that now sees plenty of people climbing back down the ladder after they worked themselves into a frenzy. But the fact still remains that Iran, whilst there may be a culture of martyrdom, knows that whilst it can hurt the US and its allies, it will not win a full blown war. Iran has spent years mugging off the US because the US let it but finally the US bit back in a significant way that might make Iran a bit more wary. This, and probably a few more subsequent indirect actions, is Iran saving face at home, pretending to be strong and mighty in facing up to the US for its domestic audience (Iran trumps anywhere in the west for nationalism and jingoism). There's still plenty of potential for accidental escalation and Donald is the great unknown, he is more than capable of doing something stupid in reacting to this. Hopefully, he'll bluster and talk the big man for a bit whilst taking Iran's implicit offer of letting the big stuff slide away again for a bit. Can't forget that many people will still suffer as a result of Iran's retaliation but unfortunately that's standard, swathes of people have to suffer at the hands of Iran all the time.
WigstonWanderer Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 Seems a pretty calibrated response from Iran, so hopefully it will go no further. The most unfortunate and tragic part is if the airliner turns out to have been accidentally struck by one of the missiles.
Rusko187 Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 41 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said: Seems a pretty calibrated response from Iran, so hopefully it will go no further. The most unfortunate and tragic part is if the airliner turns out to have been accidentally struck by one of the missiles. Sadly, and reading between the lines, there is more to this airliner story then what has been talked up but no doubt will come out in the wash. It was reported this morning that Ukraine International Airlines has suspended all flights to Tehran indefinitely, if it's true about the Engine then why do that?
WigstonWanderer Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 3 minutes ago, Rusko187 said: Sadly, and reading between the lines, there is more to this airliner story then what has been talked up but no doubt will come out in the wash. It was reported this morning that Ukraine International Airlines has suspended all flights to Tehran indefinitely, if it's true about the Engine then why do that? It could be just a sensible precaution. Obviously if there’s the possibility of missiles flying around it isn’t a safe space for airliners, even if the current incident does turn out to be a technical issue.
Ginger_Filbert Posted 8 January 2020 Author Posted 8 January 2020 I’ve seen that Iran are refusing to hand over the black box.
Rusko187 Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 19 minutes ago, Ginger_Filbert said: I’ve seen that Iran are refusing to hand over the black box. Oooh dear, not sounding good.
stripeyfox Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 42 minutes ago, Ginger_Filbert said: I’ve seen that Iran are refusing to hand over the black box. I'm not sure that they would "hand over" the black boxes in any case at this stage. According th AVHerald. Iraninan Aviation Safety board would investiagte the crash in the first instance, and it is also reported the flight recorders have not yet been located.
leicsmac Posted 8 January 2020 Posted 8 January 2020 2 hours ago, Kopfkino said: We hope that Trump's tweet and the lack of news on casualties (plus news that Iraqi, Canadian and UK personnel are fine) means everything is OK on that front, it's what I'd expect but still need confirmation. If there turns out to be casualties then most of what I'm about to say will be wrong. It was quite incredible seeing twitter as it unfolded last night, the dissoluteness of people panicking them themselves into a frenzy, even from people that should know better, was the most alarming thing. Too many people thinking it was like the Blitz rather than Iran firing missiles at vast bits of desert, albeit symbolic bits. Moreover, they signalled their intentions in the last few days (maybe even sent a message through the back channels) and the US knew to be prepared. It's not ideal but didn't require the reactions that now sees plenty of people climbing back down the ladder after they worked themselves into a frenzy. But the fact still remains that Iran, whilst there may be a culture of martyrdom, knows that whilst it can hurt the US and its allies, it will not win a full blown war. Iran has spent years mugging off the US because the US let it but finally the US bit back in a significant way that might make Iran a bit more wary. This, and probably a few more subsequent indirect actions, is Iran saving face at home, pretending to be strong and mighty in facing up to the US for its domestic audience (Iran trumps anywhere in the west for nationalism and jingoism). There's still plenty of potential for accidental escalation and Donald is the great unknown, he is more than capable of doing something stupid in reacting to this. Hopefully, he'll bluster and talk the big man for a bit whilst taking Iran's implicit offer of letting the big stuff slide away again for a bit. Can't forget that many people will still suffer as a result of Iran's retaliation but unfortunately that's standard, swathes of people have to suffer at the hands of Iran all the time. Wouldn't be 100% sure on the bolded part but the rest is absolutely spot on. Hopefully cooler heads prevail henceforth and this dick-size contest quickly ends here.
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