Corona Virus

[Leicester_Loyal]

17 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Funny isn't it, in my 11/12 years at school we had about 3 days off in total due to snow. 10 years later the little rascals get 3 months off

[ithuriel]

45 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I’ve read that it can drag on for weeks ..... I guess it’s down to how much damage has been done in the lungs ...... I’m still coughing a bit nearly four weeks on ... I never used to have a cough ......

 

Do not know if I've had it but my cough is still here if ever so slightly decreasing a minor fraction day by day, not constant but have little fits every now and again plus last night was quite uncomfortable with shortness of breath at times, got the cough a week after feeling ill and that was the day after the Villa home match.

[Guest Markyblue]

Quite surprised/ well not really to see the fact our government didn't attend some eu meetings as a really negative point according to some. Well i assume italy france and Spain attended and they are doing no better than us and Belgium the heart of eu land has nearly 4000 deaths,  that is more than a 1/3 of ours with a1/6 of the population. This isn't football and it's not about tables but lets not use sticks to beat the government with when the evidence is flawed. 

[Heathrow fox]

3 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

Quite surprised/ well not really to see the fact our government didn't attend some eu meetings as a really negative point according to some. Well i assume italy france and Spain attended and they are doing no better than us and Belgium the heart of eu land has nearly 4000 deaths,  that is more than a 1/3 of ours with a1/6 of the population. This isn't football and it's not about tables but lets not use sticks to beat the government with when the evidence is flawed. 

Didn’t realise Belgiums been clobbered so hard.Watched a documentary about the Black Death a few months ago.Bizzarely it more or less bypassed that region.

[Guest Markyblue]

Truth hurts finnaldo doesn't it.

[worth_the_wait]

A few people have implied that we should've been better prepared for this pandemic, because others had predicted it years ago.

 

The trouble is ... without any detail of exactly when, where it will come from, and what it will look like ... it's hard to do anything specific.

 

It's a bit like me saying,  in future this country will be involved in a major war.

 

I can't tell you when (next year, in 15 years, or 50 years).  

I can't tell you who it will be against (China, Russia, USA, Germany, or whoever).

I can't tell you what form it will be (conventional, nuclear, chemical, cyber, or whatever).

 

But i absolutely guarantee you, there will be another war at some point in the future.

 

So ... plan for it.  And have everything in place, in case we need it.

[SpacedX]

2 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

A few people have implied that we should've been better prepared for this pandemic, because others had predicted it years ago.

 

The trouble is ... without any detail of exactly when, where it will come from, and what it will look like ... it's hard to do anything specific.

 

It's a bit like me saying,  in future this country will be involved in a major war.

 

I can't tell you when (next year, in 15 years, or 50 years).  

I can't tell you who it will be against (China, Russia, USA, Germany, or whoever).

I can't tell you what form it will be (conventional, nuclear, chemical, cyber, or whatever).

 

But i absolutely guarantee you, there will be another war at some point in the future.

 

So ... plan for it.  And have everything in place, in case we need it.

 Asteroid impact extinction event anyone? 

[StanSP]

5 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

A few people have implied that we should've been better prepared for this pandemic, because others had predicted it years ago.

 

The trouble is ... without any detail of exactly when, where it will come from, and what it will look like ... it's hard to do anything specific.

 

It's a bit like me saying,  in future this country will be involved in a major war.

 

I can't tell you when (next year, in 15 years, or 50 years).  

I can't tell you who it will be against (China, Russia, USA, Germany, or whoever).

I can't tell you what form it will be (conventional, nuclear, chemical, cyber, or whatever).

 

But i absolutely guarantee you, there will be another war at some point in the future.

 

So ... plan for it.  And have everything in place, in case we need it.

I'd like to think funding the NHS in a better way over the past 10 or so years would have been a good way of preparing for any crisis, let alone something like this..

[FoxesDeb]

2 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I'd like to think funding the NHS in a better way over the past 10 or so years would have been a good way of preparing for any crisis, let alone something like this..

It's not sustainable though surely to have everything paid for, consistently, for years on end for a once in a generation type event? 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, FoxesDeb said:

It's not sustainable though surely to have everything paid for, consistently, for years on end for a once in a generation type event? 

Alas I would agree. You don’t see those nuclear bunkers being maintained any more either. Maybe risk assessment/ insurance actually is a hard job after all (if you or any readers work in these fields I apologise in advance  )

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, FoxesDeb said:

It's not sustainable though surely to have everything paid for, consistently, for years on end for a once in a generation type event? 

It's glaringly obvious they were under-funded for several years. Some hospitals were at breaking point. I don't mean just preparing for this kind of 'once in a generation' event either, just would have been good for them not to suffer so long...

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I'd like to think funding the NHS in a better way over the past 10 or so years would have been a good way of preparing for any crisis, let alone something like this..

I don't ever remember anyone calling for more ICU or ventilators?

 

What this might end up proving is that if people actually look after their health and don't run to A&E for anything and everything we actually have more than enough funding for the service without throwing endless cash at it.

[worth_the_wait]

7 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I'd like to think funding the NHS in a better way over the past 10 or so years would have been a good way of preparing for any crisis, let alone something like this..

The annual budget for the uk-wide NHS is in the order of £ 150,000,000,000

 

You could double that to £300 billion per year, and i suspect it would've been allocated and used up on worthwhile causes... and would have made little difference to this pandemic.

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

The annual budget for the uk-wide NHS is in the order of £ 150,000,000,000

 

You could double that to £300 billion per year, and i suspect it would've been allocated and used up on worthwhile causes... and would have made little difference to this pandemic.

How?

[StanSP]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

I don't ever remember anyone calling for more ICU or ventilators?

 

What this might end up proving is that if people actually look after their health and don't run to A&E for anything and everything we actually have more than enough funding for the service without throwing endless cash at it.

I whole-heartedly agree with the last point. I've seen some people go to A&E for some bizarre unnecessary reasons. 

 

But it's not just about the ICUs or ventilators? What about the shortage in PPE? How about easing the burden on nurses/doctors etc so that they're not overworked and underpaid?

[st albans fox]

Just now, StanSP said:

I whole-heartedly agree with the last point. I've seen some people go to A&E for some bizarre unnecessary reasons. 

 

But it's not just about the ICUs or ventilators? What about the shortage in PPE? How about easing the burden on nurses/doctors etc so that they're not overworked and underpaid?

The PPE required for this virus is unprecedented........ and the simultaneous global demand similarly.....

[Strokes]

Just now, StanSP said:

I whole-heartedly agree with the last point. I've seen some people go to A&E for some bizarre unnecessary reasons. 

 

But it's not just about the ICUs or ventilators? What about the shortage in PPE? How about easing the burden on nurses/doctors etc so that they're not overworked and underpaid?

Surely if we had so much PPE you’d all go mad about stockpiling aagh 

Like you did during the brexit debate, when we ordered a bit more than normal.

[FoxesDeb]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

I whole-heartedly agree with the last point. I've seen some people go to A&E for some bizarre unnecessary reasons. 

 

But it's not just about the ICUs or ventilators? What about the shortage in PPE? How about easing the burden on nurses/doctors etc so that they're not overworked and underpaid?

So you would have had us maintaining and testing unused ventilators, running and staffing unused ICU's, and stockpiling unused PPE, which probably goes out of date after a certain time, for goodness knows how many years, just in case. What else might we need? Who's paying for it? 

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I whole-heartedly agree with the last point. I've seen some people go to A&E for some bizarre unnecessary reasons. 

 

But it's not just about the ICUs or ventilators? What about the shortage in PPE? How about easing the burden on nurses/doctors etc so that they're not overworked and underpaid?

When you add capital into a complex public funded system surely a sizeable chunk is swallowed by oversight?

[Kopfkino]

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

I don't ever remember anyone calling for more ICU or ventilators?

 

What this might end up proving is that if people actually look after their health and don't run to A&E for anything and everything we actually have more than enough funding for the service without throwing endless cash at it.

 

You'd also hope that the eulogising of Germany whenever it can be used as a stick to beat the government with might also raise questions about whether a centralised, monopoly, deific healthcare and public health system is as effective as a mixed/decentralised system which isn't a giant political football and national religion. But as the concept that institutions matter hasn't quite percolated into the debate about how governments react, I suspect the aftermath of this will be solely about money (which isn't to say I don't think that healthcare spending should be higher).

[murphy]

5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

How?

Because NHS capacity has not been breached and because there is no effective treatment.

 

As for PPE, I would like to know what the NHS uses in an ordinary year.  I do know that Hancock has said they are trying to supply over 50,000 places as opposed to 250+ usually and the problem is one of logistics rather than supply.  I also believe that we have to import it and the whole world wants it.

 

Nobody on the front line should face this without proper equipment but the upscale in meeting the surge has been a phenomenal effort.  Sometimes, if you are hit by a crisis, it's not actually a case of fault and blame.

[Dahnsouff]

Thought this seemed a good idea. Is anything similar occurring at Leicester Hospitals?

 

https://www.reading-school.co.uk/news/?pid=3&nid=1&storyid=1408

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

You'd also hope that the eulogising of Germany whenever it can be used as a stick to beat the government with might also raise questions about whether a centralised, monopoly, deific healthcare and public health system is as effective as a mixed/decentralised system which isn't a giant political football and national religion. But as the concept that institutions matter hasn't quite percolated into the debate about how governments react, I suspect the aftermath of this will be solely about money (which isn't to say I don't think that healthcare spending should be higher).

I’d love this to be the thing that makes people look into the way we fund the NHS, and look towards the more efficient models in Europe, to how they do it. Unfortunately there is absolutely no way the closed minded would let go of the NHS being anything but 100% state funded. Also I think many (narcissist) enjoy it being the political football they make it. 

[Kopfkino]

5 minutes ago, murphy said:

Because NHS capacity has not been breached and because there is no effective treatment.

Well it quite clearly has been. That it has just about been able to add extra capacity by relaxing standards doesn't indicate that extra resources prior to this would have made little difference.

 

3 hours ago, z-layrex said:

My hospital for example has gone from having 4 intensive care units to 10. Within each of those units we are putting 2 patients in bedspaces designed for 1, its cramped and having enough equipment has been an issue. Suddenly finding enough monitoring, ventilators, infusion pumps, dialysis machines etc, as well as fitting it all into small spaces wasn't easy but they managed it. Add to this the nightnare of drug procurement and the need to provide PPE for this many staff and you can see the logistical undertaking that this really has been.

We've staffed this by having the "experienced" ICU nurses (of which there was a shortage of before the pandemic) oversee the care of 2, 3 or 4 level 3 patients (sedated on a ventilator), with the support of "surge nurses", nurses who have zero critical care experience but are there to help in any way they can. I want to stress that some of these "experienced" ICU nurses are very young, hardly experienced themselves and you can imagine the constant pressure they are under. Weve also been joined by "upskilled" nurses, who will have some kind of previous critical care background, but they will often need nearly as much support as they will often have been out of the field for years to decades. As for the medical cover, they are on wartime rotas which you can imagine is super tough.

 

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’d love this to be the thing that makes people look into the way we fund the NHS, and look towards the more efficient models in Europe, to how they do it. Unfortunately there is absolutely no way the closed minded would let go of the NHS being anything but 100% state funded. Also I think many (narcissist) enjoy it being the political football they make it. 

Yes, I don't claim to know much about other European health services but I have often wondered why the NHS model. if it's so great, has never been copied.