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By Countryfox, in General Chat

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Manley Farrington-Brown

Manley Farrington-Brown

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

I'd like to know what's wrong with the Lords, feels like trying to fix something that isn't broken. 

What's wrong with it?

It's an unelected bunch of the mates and financial backers of various politicians down the ages, most of whom are in there with them. And, for some reason, some bishops.

It's one of the two parts of the UK political system that need ripping out and replacing (not that they'll touch the other one). And then we need proportional representation. And an equitable federal system for the UK, although that ship has probably sailed, as I can't see Scotland saying anything other than 'f**k you, we're out of here.'

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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

What's wrong with it?

It's an unelected bunch of the mates and financial backers of various politicians down the ages, most of whom are in there with them. And, for some reason, some bishops.

It's one of the two parts of the UK political system that need ripping out and replacing (not that they'll touch the other one). And then we need proportional representation. And an equitable federal system for the UK, although that ship has probably sailed, as I can't see Scotland saying anything other than 'f**k you, we're out of here.'

This is what it has become,  it is not a problem at its core, you need expertise at some levels, not misinformed masses, it should be academics, business leaders, religious thinkers, not cronyism, then it’s potentially beneficial. More elections, more bureaucracy for a reactionary and partisan public is not always the answer. Are surgeons elected? Are scientists elected? A meritocracy in the lords is perfectly valid, it has just been corrupted by successive governments, red and blue.

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Innovindil

Innovindil

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

They should not bin the Lords in my opinion, but fill it with the best from business, academia, religious backgrounds, etc,  not more cronyism appointments. Making it a meritocracy alongside the main democratic chamber is the way to go.

Great in theory, but the labour argument is currently the Lords cost too much. Not quite sure how you are going to convince the best from business, academia etc etc to give up their time for £300 a day.

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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Great in theory, but the labour argument is currently the Lords cost too much. Not quite sure how you are going to convince the best from business, academia etc etc to give up their time for £300 a day.

I live in a fairy tale where it would be the crowning glory of anyones life to represent the people as a arbiter, a point of knowledgable trust

A second house would be extremely expensive whichever way it existed, but people hide behind ignorance of a second house based on democracy rather than meritocracy as a plus, it’s naught but the proliferation of the ignorance. It must be a meritocracy or just abolish it entirely and trust 100% to our bunch of grasping, feckless politicians, the same politicians blue and red who bloated the Lords through cronyism.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
On 06/12/2022 at 03:08, Dahnsouff said:

They should not bin the Lords in my opinion, but fill it with the best from business, academia, religious backgrounds, etc,  not more cronyism appointments. Making it a meritocracy alongside the main democratic chamber is the way to go.

This is literally who is in the Lords, plus a few old hereditary peers who make up the numbers.  670 Life peers, 91 hereditary, plus 25 Bishops who should be abolished obviously.  Yes they are appointed by parties over time, but generally speaking they are people who have achieved a great deal.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, marbles said:

I know this will cheer up @leicsmac

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/manhattan-jury-finds-trump-org-guilty-of-tax-crimes

 

 

Until the man himself is a convicted felon (as he has done numerous things to at least be up in court with the possibility of it being so), I'm reserving my gratitude.

 

21 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

This is literally who is in the Lords, plus a few old hereditary peers who make up the numbers.  670 Life peers, 91 hereditary, plus 25 Bishops who should be abolished obviously.  Yes they are appointed by parties over time, but generally speaking they are people who have achieved a great deal.

The idea of an unelected second house of government bothers me, but then I look at direct democracy and a system where there is no checks and balances by such a house on elected officials and realise that's by no means a perfect system either.

 

Difficult issue.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Until the man himself is a convicted felon (as he has done numerous things to at least be up in court with the possibility of it being so), I'm reserving my gratitude.

 

The idea of an unelected second house of government bothers me, but then I look at direct democracy and a system where there is no checks and balances by such a house on elected officials and realise that's by no means a perfect system either.

 

Difficult issue.

I think the prevalence of the two house system suggest there is at least a reasonable case for having those checks and balances, and a system where the "upper" house is somehow put together in a different way feels like a better control to me.  What that way is the difficult bit.  I don think the huge numbers of life peers created by recent governments has been ridiculous though, as is the idea that Lizz Truss should get to appoint some ffs.

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LiberalFox

LiberalFox

Posted
Posted
On 05/12/2022 at 20:46, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

What's wrong with it?

It's an unelected bunch of the mates and financial backers of various politicians down the ages, most of whom are in there with them. And, for some reason, some bishops.

It's one of the two parts of the UK political system that need ripping out and replacing (not that they'll touch the other one). And then we need proportional representation. And an equitable federal system for the UK, although that ship has probably sailed, as I can't see Scotland saying anything other than 'f**k you, we're out of here.'

Yes that's fair enough. I just don't really want the Labour party making it worse. There are quite a lot of really good people in the Lords.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

Yes that's fair enough. I just don't really want the Labour party making it worse. There are quite a lot of really good people in the Lords.

80 odd Liberal Democrats too, which is waaay out of kilter with their present lower house numbers.  Probably a good thing from my perspective but I’m sure not all would agree.

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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

This is literally who is in the Lords, plus a few old hereditary peers who make up the numbers.  670 Life peers, 91 hereditary, plus 25 Bishops who should be abolished obviously.  Yes they are appointed by parties over time, but generally speaking they are people who have achieved a great deal.

Think you are being quite generous to some of the peers to state they fall into these categories 

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Think you are being quite generous to some of the peers to state they fall into these categories 

No doubt some are barely active, but there are without date some excellent people in there.  one example who springs to mind is Lady Tanni Grey-Thompson.

Edited by Jon the Hat
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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

Posted
Posted
Just now, Jon the Hat said:

No doubt some are barely active, but there are without date some excellent people in there.  one example who springs to mind is Lady Tanni Grey-Thompson.

Not down on the Lords, like many areas, it just needs prudence and some fat trimming

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63877555

 

Dems end up improving on their Senate position, albeit by just one seat. Not bad.

The fact that a candidate with such a questionable character, history and mental health as Walker was backed by Trump shows how desperate he is becoming. These ill judged populist nominations ratchets up pressure on Republican lawmakers to disavow him. Each turns off more moderate Republicans and independent voters. Georgia is a state in transformation. Since 2000, its population has burgeoned, particularly among young people and people of colour. Atlanta has become a hub of youthful innovation and knowledge exchange, including upwardly mobile black professionals. If Georgia is a barometer for American politics, I think it has been pointing in a direction opposite to Trump and may well be a microcosm for the future of the nation. Across America the urban and educated districts have become wealthier – and Democratic – while their blue collar white rural hinterlands remain economically stagnant, and rusting Trump Republican. A complete democratic and geographical sea change from the old divisions through which the Democrats were traditionally the champion of the manual labourer. The Trump base is no longer large enough to swing elections in Georgia or other key states but it does still signify the rising tide of populism and have sufficient momentum to continue to destabilise America because of its continued appeal to conspiracy theories and the supposed “big lie”

 

Georgia has never had two black nominees compete for the Senate but Walker’s entire candidacy was a Trump creation and a staggering miscalculation. In the same week he can now add tax fraud to his 'accomplishments' after his company was convicted of a 15-year criminal scheme.

 

 

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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I'm all for reforming the HoL we do need a second chamber, but this one is not fit for purpose. 

Fine, just not another elected bunch of the ignorant please

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