Coronavirus Thread

[z-layrex]

10 minutes ago, Fox in the North said:

How are @Parafoxand @z-layrexfinding things at the moment? Always valued their opinion as medical professionals. Are things as chaotic for you as they were around March/April? 

Really quiet at my big Central London hospital, as it normally is in October. A few covid in icu beds but not many and rarely very sick.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I think that's the wrong way round for burden of proof.  

 

If an individual decides that visiting mother is on balance the right thing to do, then the Government should not be stopping him or her doing that unless they can prove that allowing it will cause serious harm to the general public.  They shouldn't be placing the burden of proof on the individual to prove that visiting Mother will not harm anyone else.

Well, right now the null hypothesis seems to be that doing things like that *does* bring harm, based on both local and global data - which is why I consider the burden of proof to be in that particular direction.

 

In any case, I'm referring to the argument that "normal" business should resume rather than just the family visits talked about here, so it's a more general than individual argument. And to be specific, I'm asking for scientific proof that the government should change tack and (more importantly) that so doing would be either less or as damaging economically and socially than what is going on right now.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Early reports say another 19 people have died due to coronavirus in the last 24 hours, this is from the daily mirror though 🙈

Edited 

19, according to the only website that you can make any sense out of, mainly because it's all there in black and white. And it also appears we're having a beginning of July sequence, hopefully.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths

[StanSP]

Not a fan of it being called a 'computer glitch'. Makes it sound like it wasn't human error because someone didn't know how to use Excel properly... 

[yorkie1999]

11 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Not a fan of it being called a 'computer glitch'. Makes it sound like it wasn't human error because someone didn't know how to use Excel properly... 

I think the human error part comes from no-one knowing that you can't use more than 16000 columns, as if anyone would actually think to check that in the first place.

[StanSP]

Just now, yorkie1999 said:

I think the human error part comes from no-one knowing that you can't use more than 16000 columns, as if anyone would actually think to check that in the first place.

Where did they think the data was going... 

[yorkie1999]

Just now, StanSP said:

Where did they think the data was going... 

well, once it's pointed out, it seem a bit obvious. What i can't get my head round is for all the time, money and effort that goes into recording this sort of data, why didn't the government get in some oracle whizkids to come up with a proper database.

[Kopfkino]

I realise I haven't seen the spreadsheet and I've not actually dug into what the problem was, just read a couple of tweets, but I just can't work out why you'd format it that way round in the first place. Why wouldn't you put the unique values in rows instead of columns? Or is the talk of columns bollocks?

Edited 5 October 2020 by Kopfkino

[Parafox]

2 hours ago, Fox in the North said:

How are @Parafoxand @z-layrexfinding things at the moment? Always valued their opinion as medical professionals. Are things as chaotic for you as they were around March/April? 

For me as a paramedic, no not really. The rise in potential Covid calls has risen but not beyond manageable levels which was the case in the early days when anyone with a mild cough called 999 because thought they where at death's door and would be on a ventilator partly due to the Gov scaremongering that the NHS collapse and would need the nightingale hospitals as it would never cope otherwise. Probably because the Gov had no real idea of what was happening and needed a contingency but it really scared people into not going to hospital when they really should have. People seem to have a greater understanding now and are actually using 111/119 and online NHS information more appropriately. The number of elderly people we go to with potential symptoms is not as high as it was and the number of people we are taking to hospital with underlying conditions that Covid could be threat to has also decreased. Back in April we were pre-alerting A&E resus several times a day and they were on the edge of declaring a major incident as they were at capacity, mainly due to the already full ICU's. Now those have space it seems resus can manage a lot better.

In case you didn't know, if you feel you need a Covid test, call 119. Saves going through the 111 process and it will put you in contact with the right call-handler to get you a kit sent out to you or book an appointment at a test centre.

Anyway, after all that, things for us are probably quieter than the were before Covid because people seem to have taken more responsibility for their own care in the less serious conditions instead of using 999 and A&E as a crutch or a way of getting treated more quickly than waiting for a GP appt.

Edited 5 October 2020 by Parafox

[BKLFox]

5 hours ago, ealingfox said:

 

So Tories can blame young people for the virus again a month down the line presumably.

 

The only thing I wanted to see at the cinema at the moment was the James Bond film anyway

 

Well I guess if people don’t start using the cinemas again this might be the last ever 007 u might see

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

11 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Well I guess if people don’t start using the cinemas again this might be the last ever 007 u might see

Oddly enough on the day Cineworld closed their doors.

[Legend_in_blue]

4 hours ago, joachim1965 said:

spot on, but I do believe the virus is still here, it will always be here, we can't get rid of it just like you can't get rid of influenza or the common cold (coronavirus), it just isn't as prevailent as the government and media are making us believe,  pcr testing is driving this.

The deaths will increase as we go into winter but that happens every year and we don't normally bat an eyelid.

The death rate due to respiratory conditions is at the moment comparable to the previous five years.

 

According to the data, it is much lower in comparison to the previous 5 years if you take COVID out of the numbers.  When COVID is added in, numbers are indeed comparable to the previous five years.

 

Watch this and you'll understand:

 

 

 

Take from this what you will but I did have to shake my head in disbelief at this graph:

 

 

Crazy at the time to suggest these numbers and even more so now imo.  Why scare the public?  Crazy.

 

[Filbert_Ross]

[yorkie1999]

7 minutes ago, Filbert_Ross said:

Well that’s it then, catch covid and knock 20 years off. Looks so much better for it as well!!

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

10 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Well that’s it then, catch covid and knock 20 years off. Looks so much better for it as well!!

He’s an idiot, a very successful wealthy idiot but an idiot all the same 😝

[Arkie Bennett]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Where did they think the data was going... 

Matt Hancock. He wants everyone's data.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/22/minister-forced-to-change-his-own-app-after-data-mining-complaints

[joachim1965]

52 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

According to the data, it is much lower in comparison to the previous 5 years if you take COVID out of the numbers.  When COVID is added in, numbers are indeed comparable to the previous five years.

 

Watch this and you'll understand:

 

 

 

Take from this what you will but I did have to shake my head in disbelief at this graph:

 

 

Crazy at the time to suggest these numbers and even more so now imo.  Why scare the public?  Crazy.

 

I posted that video earlier today.

[CosbehFox]

4 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

The Swedes, most importantly, seemed to have had a clear plan with a very straightforward set of rules causing no more economic damage than it had to. I appreciate the U.K. government could never have kept deaths anywhere near as low as Sweden (due to the physical and societal differences have been pointed out)

Still Sweden had their biggest death toll in 150 years. Their own government has admitted their recklessness on care homes was a very, very poor judgement. 
 

In recent weeks they have considered a more freedom squeezing lockdown of Stockholm. 
 

We’ve been here before and you are in agreement with me, their working culture is far less inverted to the employer and more equal. Hence working from home in a country where they’ve trialled six day weeks isn’t some tension filled moment of trust as it’s billed here 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Legend_in_blue said:

According to the data, it is much lower in comparison to the previous 5 years if you take COVID out of the numbers.  When COVID is added in, numbers are indeed comparable to the previous five years.

Any data comparison is simply false. 
 

Simply due to the restrictions imposed this year. If people aren’t at risk outside, sharing contact and increasing the likelyhood of disease/accident/infection. 

[joachim1965]

3 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Any data comparison is simply false. 
 

Simply due to the restrictions imposed this year. If people aren’t at risk outside, sharing contact and increasing the likelyhood of disease/accident/infection. 

so basically what you are saying is if the data doesn't hype up cases and fear, it's false.

As I asked earlier,  please show me the deaths, where are they if cases are so high.

[Legend_in_blue]

7 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Any data comparison is simply false. 
 

Simply due to the restrictions imposed this year. If people aren’t at risk outside, sharing contact and increasing the likelyhood of disease/accident/infection. 

What?  False?  How?

 

The evidence presented would indicate that all measures taken since June have had minimal impact.  The longer this goes on, the more obvious this becomes.

 

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, joachim1965 said:

so basically what you are saying is if the data doesn't hype up cases and fear, it's false.

As I asked earlier,  please show me the deaths, where are they if cases are so high.

It’s quite simple. 
 

Let’s say there’s a ban on the use of cars in 2021. 

So if you compare the deaths caused in car accidents of 2020 to the year of 2021, then there will be less deaths. 
 

So if you compare 2019 where people could roam freely to 2020 where people couldn’t then of course deaths will be reduced. 
 

There’s an easy answer why there is less deaths - the infection rate is significantly lower now than it was in March but we didn’t have the testing capacity to understand how wide the infection spread. Alongside this is a significant improvement in how treat patients plus more availability of capacity to treat. 

[joachim1965]

2 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

What?  False?  How?

 

The evidence presented would indicate that all measures taken since June have had minimal impact.  The longer this goes on, the more obvious this becomes.

 

spot on, I can't believe people are still blind to it. We are in no worse position than we were last year. Top doctors,  scientists are all saying the same.

[CosbehFox]

3 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

What?  False?  How?

 

The evidence presented would indicate that all measures taken since June have had minimal impact.  The longer this goes on, the more obvious this becomes.

 

Because you are comparing an apple to a pear. It’s that simple. 
 

On your point about measures, there’s a few quite obvious pointers on that regards people actually complying with the measurements and equally the relation of vitamin D, outdoor activities etc. 

[joachim1965]

1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

It’s quite simple. 
 

Let’s say there’s a ban on the use of cars in 2021. 

So if you compare the deaths caused in car accidents of 2020 to the year of 2021, then there will be less deaths. 
 

So if you compare 2019 where people could roam freely to 2020 where people couldn’t then of course deaths will be reduced. 
 

There’s an easy answer why there is less deaths - the infection rate is significantly lower now than it was in March but we didn’t have the testing capacity to understand how wide the infection spread. Alongside this is a significant improvement in how treat patients plus more availability of capacity to treat. 

I get your point but I don't think it's relevant here, what about the seaside towns in summer, they were packed, BLM protests brought tens of thousands of people together but there was no spike in hospital admissions or deaths, all the evidence points to the pandemic being over,  it's only governments and msm keeping it going, as I have been banging on about for a while now,  the pcr test cannot diagnose Covid-19, it wasn't made for diagnosis, the false positives are huge.