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5 hours ago, StanSP said:

What does everyone think will happen for Xmas then in terms of guidelines/rules? 

 

Rule of six to stay in place or be temporarily stopped? 

 

I think several people/families will break the rules regardless which in some ways shows how careless they can/will be. 

 

It'd be weird if they stopped the rules for a day or two as it is. As if coronavirus takes a break for the holidays too... 

I read somewhere that there are plans to lift restrictions for two days over Christmas.  The net effect will be minor if the restrictions go back on swiftly.  On a family level, some people WILL die before their time because they contracted it from a relative whilst having Christmas dinner. 

It's very much going to be up to the individual.  Personally I'm not sure it's worth it, if there is an elderly family member who can reasonably be expected to live for the next 5 years, then I'd rather pass this year in the hope of having 4 more with them.  That's the gamble.

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1 hour ago, reynard said:

Not sure how our situation is tracking that in the rest of Europe but there are some serious developments in some countries. I fear we are around 3-4 weeks behind France where it looks like there will be another full lockdown.

The reason we were 3-4 weeks behind countries like italy and france was because of the virus migrating through countries i.e. it had to get here and then spread and take hold and then we see the result. Since global restrictions on travel etc, i don't think that's the case anymore but think it's more to do with each countries attempts at internally controlling the virus. If we locked the whole country down tomorrow for a month and stopped any travel into the country, the virus must surely disappear, as everyone who currently has it will either pass it on to their immediate household and they'll all be ill but recover from it or need to go to hospital, It can't spread anymore than each individual household.

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21 minutes ago, nnfox said:

I read somewhere that there are plans to lift restrictions for two days over Christmas.  The net effect will be minor if the restrictions go back on swiftly.  On a family level, some people WILL die before their time because they contracted it from a relative whilst having Christmas dinner. 

It's very much going to be up to the individual.  Personally I'm not sure it's worth it, if there is an elderly family member who can reasonably be expected to live for the next 5 years, then I'd rather pass this year in the hope of having 4 more with them.  That's the gamble.

On a family level, there are always people who die before their time because they go and see family for Christmas dinner.  And catching a respiratory disease is the most common way of doing it.  This year the odds will be worse - as I said earlier, the March/April rapid spread of coronavirus has changed the likelihood that a person over dies this year from 10% to 11%.  If we have a second wave as bad as the first, that will make it 12%.  Which means that if there is a 20% chance that this is your last Christmas, the odds are perhaps in your favour.

 

Even if your elderly family member does have five more years of life, what quality will they be?  The last 4 years may see them unable to walk.  This may be the last year when they are compos mentis.  The year of purdah will almost certainly set them back if they have any tendency to dementia at all.  If death is certain or highly likely from coming to Christmas dinner, it would be different; but as one Christmas dinner increases their chance of death from 10% to perhaps 10.01% (and even that is based on the idea that 1 in 100 old folks' coronavirus deaths were caused by 1 family dinner) then it isn't worth sacrificing this year in hope fo 4 more.

 

What I'm saying, basically, is that if you tell your old relatives who have been shielding for months that they can come and have a normal family Christmas, that will be far better for them than telling them that they are stuck on their own for another 6 months, see you in April if we have a vaccine.  There's more to life than breathing.

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21 hours ago, Sampson said:

How bad were you when you had it in February?

 

I know you said the hospital beds are filling up again. How are they looking in comparison to March/April time?

 

There was an interesting article on the BBC website a couple of days ago about how people aren't being put into comes anymore they're mostly awake and talking. So ICU has a different feel to it.

 

Would be interested to get your take.

That article on the BBC was pretty ignorant to be honest. ICU populations are always less acute during the warmer months, the patients starting to come in now are as sick as before. All perfectly manageable in terms of beds at the moment, Wales and Manchester area getting hit pretty hard though.

 

We had a lot of sickness at work over those couple weeks in feb. I had been feeling off for a few days, was on a night shift and started feeling worse and worse, dry cough and fever. Went home and got in bed, my mrs was away working. I had hallucinations for about a day after that so must have had a stonking fever, constantly feeling ice cold and very nasty cough. Just thought it was the flu! After my fever came down my chest got worse, but I also remember being incredibly hungry. I ordered 2 dominoes and I usually hate shit pizza like that. Definitely the weirdest illness I ever had. What was weird was I always felt worse after taking ibuprofen.

 

 

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1 hour ago, z-layrex said:

That article on the BBC was pretty ignorant to be honest. ICU populations are always less acute during the warmer months, the patients starting to come in now are as sick as before. All perfectly manageable in terms of beds at the moment, Wales and Manchester area getting hit pretty hard though.

 

We had a lot of sickness at work over those couple weeks in feb. I had been feeling off for a few days, was on a night shift and started feeling worse and worse, dry cough and fever. Went home and got in bed, my mrs was away working. I had hallucinations for about a day after that so must have had a stonking fever, constantly feeling ice cold and very nasty cough. Just thought it was the flu! After my fever came down my chest got worse, but I also remember being incredibly hungry. I ordered 2 dominoes and I usually hate shit pizza like that. Definitely the weirdest illness I ever had. What was weird was I always felt worse after taking ibuprofen.

 

 

had something similar myself in feb caught it off this bloke from work by the time i got home i felt awful same things as you got.

 

I do wonder but does adverse effects of a panic attack or anxiety cause people to require ventilators? 

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So Germany and France announce "lockdowns" when they're aren't really from what I can see? Just additional restrictions. And now people are complaining we aren't doing the same when there isn't much different to a tier 3 here, just restaurants closed as well. 

 

Inevitably most areas will be tier 3 in sure. 

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5 hours ago, nnfox said:

I read somewhere that there are plans to lift restrictions for two days over Christmas.  The net effect will be minor if the restrictions go back on swiftly.  On a family level, some people WILL die before their time because they contracted it from a relative whilst having Christmas dinner. 

It's very much going to be up to the individual.  Personally I'm not sure it's worth it, if there is an elderly family member who can reasonably be expected to live for the next 5 years, then I'd rather pass this year in the hope of having 4 more with them.  That's the gamble.

Just be sensible in the week or 10 days leading up to Christmas, that's what I'd suggest, but obviously like you say it's up to the individual.

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14 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

So Germany and France announce "lockdowns" when they're aren't really from what I can see? Just additional restrictions. And now people are complaining we aren't doing the same when there isn't much different to a tier 3 here, just restaurants closed as well. 

 

Inevitably most areas will be tier 3 in sure. 

 

The only difference from March in France is that schools remain open. Not allowed to leave home but to go to work, school, food shop or exercise once again and have to fill in and carry a form to leave home.

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Whilst City fans may be happy that Forest haven't been in the top flight for 20 years, they shouldn't be happy that Nottingham itself is soon going to be in Tier 3. The second wave could be deadlier than the first, and the areas moving into that tier could soon include Leicester. November, December and January could see the country as a whole losing 500+ people per day. That's like having a 9/11 catastrophe every week until well into next year, but hidden from the public's view.

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12 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Whilst City fans may be happy that Forest haven't been in the top flight for 20 years, they shouldn't be happy that Nottingham itself is soon going to be in Tier 3. The second wave could be deadlier than the first, and the areas moving into that tier could soon include Leicester. November, December and January could see the country as a whole losing 500+ people per day. That's like having a 9/11 catastrophe every week until well into next year, but hidden from the public's view.

Other than an innocent joke, so you really think people are happy that Nottingham is having restrictions imposed?

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8 minutes ago, Stevosevic said:

Not really worth risking have Xmas dinner with your 85 year old granny this year. People need to make sensible decisions themselves regardless of the official measures.

 

 

You say sensible and I understand but think of it from the 85 year old grans point of view. She will realistically only have a handful of Christmas’s left.

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5 minutes ago, Stevosevic said:

Not really worth risking have Xmas dinner with your 85 year old granny this year. People need to make sensible decisions themselves regardless of the official measures.

 

 

I agree. I just don't know why people are so hung up on rules of what they can and can't do at home. 

 

Listen to guidance sure, but work it out for yourself. If your 85 year old Grandma would rather risk it, then risk it. If she doesn't, don't. 

 

How hard can it be?

 

My mate and his mrs have had it..as his his sister and her partner. So they have (rightly, imo) worked out that they don't count in any 'rule of six' family get together. Simple logic.

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

You say sensible and I understand but think of it from the 85 year old grans point of view. She will realistically only have a handful of Christmas’s left.

Then if everyone involved is agreed to take that risk then I say do it. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I agree. I just don't know why people are so hung up on rules of what they can and can't do at home. 

 

Listen to guidance sure, but work it out for yourself. If your 85 year old Grandma would rather risk it, then risk it. If she doesn't, don't. 

 

How hard can it be?

 

My mate and his mrs have had it..as his his sister and her partner. So they have (rightly, imo) worked out that they don't count in any 'rule of six' family get together. Simple logic.

 

Does it work like that ? 
 

how long ago did they have it ?

 

how badly were they affected ?

 

these are things that apparently affect how long they can stay with immunity .....and once they lose that, they can become infected again .....or maybe not .......

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14 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Does it work like that ? 
 

how long ago did they have it ?

 

how badly were they affected ?

 

these are things that apparently affect how long they can stay with immunity .....and once they lose that, they can become infected again .....or maybe not .......

Dunno, as you say - maybe, maybe not. 

 

The point is, they are using logic based on reasonable assumptions rather than expecting/wanting the govt to make a ruling for every micro action a person makes

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5 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

On a family level, there are always people who die before their time because they go and see family for Christmas dinner.  And catching a respiratory disease is the most common way of doing it.  This year the odds will be worse - as I said earlier, the March/April rapid spread of coronavirus has changed the likelihood that a person over dies this year from 10% to 11%.  If we have a second wave as bad as the first, that will make it 12%.  Which means that if there is a 20% chance that this is your last Christmas, the odds are perhaps in your favour.

 

Even if your elderly family member does have five more years of life, what quality will they be?  The last 4 years may see them unable to walk.  This may be the last year when they are compos mentis.  The year of purdah will almost certainly set them back if they have any tendency to dementia at all.  If death is certain or highly likely from coming to Christmas dinner, it would be different; but as one Christmas dinner increases their chance of death from 10% to perhaps 10.01% (and even that is based on the idea that 1 in 100 old folks' coronavirus deaths were caused by 1 family dinner) then it isn't worth sacrificing this year in hope fo 4 more.

 

What I'm saying, basically, is that if you tell your old relatives who have been shielding for months that they can come and have a normal family Christmas, that will be far better for them than telling them that they are stuck on their own for another 6 months, see you in April if we have a vaccine.  There's more to life than breathing.

Wheyyyhey make way...wheres the Venison ,crispy Goose & stuffing...Ahh the colly & brussels look a treat...Some gud ol' Roasty tatties ,throw over a couple

of yorki-puds & lets pour over buckets of Tasty gravy.....Wake me up when the Vaccine has been dished out to 10Million people...Then I will be ready for my

Cognac-trifle & dollops of cream....Followed by irish-coffee,washed down with a nice port....

 

 

 

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Any lockdown won't be as effective with schools staying open. Plus factories will be classed as key services and we've seen huge outbreaks in those places.

 

If we lockdown we have to have minimal things open to make an impact and control it. Even then, I still think people will meet in houses. 

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33 minutes ago, Corky said:

Any lockdown won't be as effective with schools staying open. Plus factories will be classed as key services and we've seen huge outbreaks in those places.

 

If we lockdown we have to have minimal things open to make an impact and control it. Even then, I still think people will meet in houses. 

I’ve no idea what’s happening up there where you’ve been effective tier 2 for ages but down here I see people who are clearly not from the same household socialising in bars and restaurants......is anyone actually taking the restrictions seriously ?.

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Just now, st albans fox said:

I’ve no idea what’s happening up there where you’ve been effective tier 2 for ages but down here I see people who are clearly not from the same household socialising in bars and restaurants......is anyone actually taking the mixing restrictions seriously ?.

 

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