Coronavirus Thread

[Kopfkino]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

What are you doing coming in here with your nuance, Stan! Don't you see it isn't welcome? 

You do come across as only having a fetish for nuance when it’s suited to you, rarely when it’s unsuited which is to say it’s not really about nuance.

Not seen you begging so much nuance around the UK government’s performance. In fact, your later post is illuminating in that you don’t seem as interested in nuance in that case. The government has done well thus far on vaccines, as you note, yet the work started for that in February last year, the early decisions made helped the global push and put the UK in a better position today in that respect. ‘Up until they finally’ doesn’t sound like nuance, sounds more like grudging praise fighting the desire to criticise.

 

I don’t see the nuanced position of ‘the government has done a lot wrong and has driven bad outcomes’ but it did very well to ramp up testing to almost unparalleled levels after a slow start, or the success of genomic sequencing and the offer to help other with it, or done very well on clinical trials for both therapies and vaccines, or an actual representation of the vaccine picture from start to 

 

See I don’t think people that are genuinely interested in nuance would spray the term around so liberally at predictable moments and much less so at any other point.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

You do come across as only having a fetish for nuance when it’s suited to you, rarely when it’s unsuited which is to say it’s not really about nuance.

Not seen you begging so much nuance around the UK government’s performance. In fact, your later post is illuminating in that you don’t seem as interested in nuance in that case. The government has done well thus far on vaccines, as you note, yet the work started for that in February last year, the early decisions made helped the global push and put the UK in a better position today in that respect. ‘Up until they finally’ doesn’t sound like nuance, sounds more like grudging praise fighting the desire to criticise.

 

I don’t see the nuanced position of ‘the government has done a lot wrong and has driven bad outcomes’ but it did very well to ramp up testing to almost unparalleled levels after a slow start, or the success of genomic sequencing and the offer to help other with it, or done very well on clinical trials for both therapies and vaccines, or an actual representation of the vaccine picture from start to 

 

See I don’t think people that are genuinely interested in nuance would spray the term around so liberally at predictable moments and much less so at any other point.

Some positions don't require nuance in their examination, Kopf - ethnic supremacism and destruction of natural environments in a way that endanger human future being a couple of examples that spring to mind. If believing that is somehow applying nuance selectively when one feels it should be applied across the board, then so be it. Additionally, I never claimed to not be a hypocrite on the matter myself when I, like everyone else here, has their biases - but being a hypocrite doesn't mean I'm wrong about the remarkable lack of subtlety in discourse over the past couple of pages of this thread.

 

If you think I'm damning the UK government with faint praise, then so be it too - I stand by that they've gotten more wrong than they've gotten right on this one overall, but I'm not going to say nor infer that they have got nothing right, as is being inferred by some of the commentary on the EU here. 

 

There's times where picking a side is pretty damn obvious and others when it might be better to actually consider the merits and flaws of both sides and accept they have them. This one is the latter, IMO.

 

[Dunge]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Some positions don't require nuance in their examination, Kopf - ethnic supremacism and destruction of natural environments in a way that endanger human future being a couple of examples that spring to mind. If believing that is somehow applying nuance selectively when one feels it should be applied across the board, then so be it. Additionally, I never claimed to not be a hypocrite on the matter myself when I, like everyone else here, has their biases - but being a hypocrite doesn't mean I'm wrong about the remarkable lack of subtlety in discourse over the past couple of pages of this thread.

 

If you think I'm damning the UK government with faint praise, then so be it too - I stand by that they've gotten more wrong than they've gotten right on this one overall, but I'm not going to say nor infer that they have got nothing right, as is being inferred by some of the commentary on the EU here. 

 

There's times where picking a side is pretty damn obvious and others when it might be better to actually consider the merits and flaws of both sides and accept they have them. This one is the latter, IMO.

 

Over the last week, the EU and notable EU leaders and organisations have:

- Put the blame on another country for the EU’s own incompetence without that country having anything to do with it.
- Published a confidential contract with the aim of getting their interpretation of it out there first. (Despite, IMO, that the contents of that contract demonstrate the EU to be wrong in their assertions.)

- Abused and raided a company that is sending out their life-saving product for no profit.

- Made false and anti-scientific claims about the efficacy of that vaccine, including Germany rejecting the AZ vaccine in pensioners for blatantly political reasons to do with support for their own company.

- Passed draconian laws to deliberately prevent and slow down the transport of life-saving vaccines, claiming that they’re doing so to ensure the EU’s “fair share” despite the fact they already have more than their fair share worldwide.

- Proposed the breaking of an international treaty without even consulting the member state it most affected.

- Somehow managed to make Boris Johnson look like the grown-up in the room.

 

If there was ever a time they deserved the criticism they’re getting, it’s now.

[reynard]

18 hours ago, Corky said:

This really isn't the time for posturing or point scoring. People's lives need saving.

This really is the key point. The Eu have mucked things up re vaccines just like our Governement has mucked things up along the way too. The world really needs to act together on this though as the fewer people vacinated the more chance of varients emerge which are resistant to the current vaccines and then round and round we go again.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Dunge said:

Over the last week, the EU and notable EU leaders and organisations have:

- Put the blame on another country for the EU’s own incompetence without that country having anything to do with it.
- Published a confidential contract with the aim of getting their interpretation of it out there first. (Despite, IMO, that the contents of that contract demonstrate the EU to be wrong in their assertions.)

- Abused and raided a company that is sending out their life-saving product for no profit.

- Made false and anti-scientific claims about the efficacy of that vaccine, including Germany rejecting the AZ vaccine in pensioners for blatantly political reasons to do with support for their own company.

- Passed draconian laws to deliberately prevent and slow down the transport of life-saving vaccines, claiming that they’re doing so to ensure the EU’s “fair share” despite the fact they already have more than their fair share worldwide.

- Proposed the breaking of an international treaty without even consulting the member state it most affected.

- Somehow managed to make Boris Johnson look like the grown-up in the room.

 

If there was ever a time they deserved the criticism they’re getting, it’s now.

I thought I was pretty clear that I agreed that they deserved pelters for this one, but just in case it wasn't clear, I categorically think that they do.

[reynard]

5 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Over the last week, the EU and notable EU leaders and organisations have:

- Put the blame on another country for the EU’s own incompetence without that country having anything to do with it.
- Published a confidential contract with the aim of getting their interpretation of it out there first. (Despite, IMO, that the contents of that contract demonstrate the EU to be wrong in their assertions.)

- Abused and raided a company that is sending out their life-saving product for no profit.

- Made false and anti-scientific claims about the efficacy of that vaccine, including Germany rejecting the AZ vaccine in pensioners for blatantly political reasons to do with support for their own company.

- Passed draconian laws to deliberately prevent and slow down the transport of life-saving vaccines, claiming that they’re doing so to ensure the EU’s “fair share” despite the fact they already have more than their fair share worldwide.

- Proposed the breaking of an international treaty without even consulting the member state it most affected.

- Somehow managed to make Boris Johnson look like the grown-up in the room.

 

If there was ever a time they deserved the criticism they’re getting, it’s now.

Without doubt one of the hardest things to achieve over the last 10 months.

[reynard]

21 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Macron’s decided to play fast-and-loose with his comments, saying everything points to AZ being ineffective in over 65s. Doesn’t say there is insufficient data to prove its effectiveness, just that’s it ineffective. Assuming there’s not a mistranslation in this.

 

The EMA has now said it expects it to be effective in the older population. Macron, president of a vaccine-sceptical country, may now have to tell people to take something he’s just said is ineffective.

 

Abdolute idiot on this.

[Mike Oxlong]

Some of these footballers aren’t the brightest sparks are they ! 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-tyne-55870959

[Strokes]

I deliberately haven’t commented much on the EU vaccine shenanigans because I felt it would provoke a few unnecessarily. 
However I must put it down how shocked even I am, at their disgusting behaviour.

Seriously I do hope we all (countries of Europe) manage to find a way to vaccinate our populations promptly, without resorting to petty or inflammatory actions.

[StanSP]

487,756 first doses yesterday. 

2,178 second doses. 

 

8.85m total vaccinations done as of yesterday. 

[Facecloth]

12 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I deliberately haven’t commented much on the EU vaccine shenanigans because I felt it would provoke a few unnecessarily. 
However I must put it down how shocked even I am, at their disgusting behaviour.

Seriously I do hope we all (countries of Europe) manage to find a way to vaccinate our populations promptly, without resorting to petty or inflammatory actions.

I voted Remain, and still would, but the I've never said the EU is perfect. They haven't covered themselves in glory over the last few days, and using the terminology they used such as "demanding vaccinations" and "we can and will get them" doesn't paint them in a good light. We went early with the vaccine and fingers crossed its a good decision, they (or the members who chose to be in thr EU program, because they could opt out) were more pragmatic, and it seems it hasn't worked as well. For once we've seen Boris be proactive, so fair play to him, but it doesn't whitewash all dithering he's previously done, same as I don't think this by the EU wipesout all the benefits we've enjoyed and now lost over the years.

[Leicester_Loyal]

2 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Some of these footballers aren’t the brightest sparks are they ! 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-tyne-55870959

Boggles my mind how thick people can be

 

Excellent numbers again today StanleyP

[Mike Oxlong]

55 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I deliberately haven’t commented much on the EU vaccine shenanigans because I felt it would provoke a few unnecessarily. 
However I must put it down how shocked even I am, at their disgusting behaviour.

Seriously I do hope we all (countries of Europe) manage to find a way to vaccinate our populations promptly, without resorting to petty or inflammatory actions.

And i just thought you’d gone awol because you’d accepted the invite to MattP’s celebratory party 

Edited 30 January 2021 by Mike Oxlong

[UpTheLeagueFox]

30 minutes ago, StanSP said:

487,756 first doses yesterday. 

2,178 second doses. 

8.85m total vaccinations done as of yesterday. 

My mum and sister in that number.

Stayed over at my mum's last night to make sure she slept okay and didn't suffer any problems which happened when she had the flu jab in November,

[Costock_Fox]

58 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

My mum and sister in that number.

Stayed over at my mum's last night to make sure she slept okay and didn't suffer any problems which happened when she had the flu jab in November,

Someone at work had theirs on Thursday and felt really rough.

[yorkie1999]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Yep.

 

What about a government who have handled this entire crisis with a seemingly singular lack of competence, up until they finally got the vaccine regimen right?

And what about a supra-governmental organisation that have handled this all incredibly poorly and egotistically in their efforts to appear tough and save face, while doing rather sterling work elsewhere?

 

This "two sides, pick one" bollocks is, well...bollocks.

That’s a whataboutory 

[Finnaldo]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

I voted Remain, and still would, but the I've never said the EU is perfect. They haven't covered themselves in glory over the last few days, and using the terminology they used such as "demanding vaccinations" and "we can and will get them" doesn't paint them in a good light. We went early with the vaccine and fingers crossed its a good decision, they (or the members who chose to be in thr EU program, because they could opt out) were more pragmatic, and it seems it hasn't worked as well. For once we've seen Boris be proactive, so fair play to him, but it doesn't whitewash all dithering he's previously done, same as I don't think this by the EU wipesout all the benefits we've enjoyed and now lost over the years.

I’m thrown in as a ‘Remainer’ but my actual position would be Pro-European Anti-Union. I’m all for closer economic and social co-operation, freedom of movement etc. but anti-the political framework (‘EU Bureaucracy’ to borrow a Brexiteer term) built above it. From his posts I assume @Kopfkino holds similar views and I feel even though he’s technically on the other side of the aisle I think @Strokes isn’t too far off either (with different beliefs in the solution that is). 

 

Since the New Year with the crisis at the border hurting many businesses and the EU absolutely shitting the bed after forcing vaccine procurement out the hands of National health ministers I feel that view is vindicated somewhat. On a very rare occurrence I have to applaud the government for being neither too aggressive or too submissive on the vaccine flashpoint. Our future relies on being co-operative but we have to stand up to EU hypocrisy (you don’t hear much re: Hungary or Catalonia) when needed.

 

On a more positive note, another day verging 500k vaccines is an excellent return, as long as we have our vaccine supply intact I remain pretty optimistic we’ll be seeing reduced restrictions sooner rather than later. 

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

I personally think it's great to have a political stance but still have a semblance of balance. I'm absolutely a remainer but the EU have handled this terribly, and anyone who says they haven't are just blinded by some weird 'my team' bias that goes way beyond a personal opinion. I can think Boris Johnson has done very well, commendably, with the vaccine programme but still think he looks and acts like a haunted custard tart and not like him or his government. I don't like kier starmer all that much, either, but would still be a remainer and a Labour voter. Madness. 

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

And i just thought you’d gone awol because you’d accepted the invite to MattP’s celebratory party 

Didn’t get an invitation, I’m heartbroken to be honest. 

[Nod.E]

58 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

I personally think it's great to have a political stance but still have a semblance of balance. I'm absolutely a remainer but the EU have handled this terribly, and anyone who says they haven't are just blinded by some weird 'my team' bias that goes way beyond a personal opinion. I can think Boris Johnson has done very well, commendably, with the vaccine programme but still think he looks and acts like a haunted custard tart and not like him or his government. I don't like kier starmer all that much, either, but would still be a remainer and a Labour voter. Madness. 

Maybe I'm biased, but you wouldn't get this kind of level headed response from those 'on the other side'. 

[Spudulike]

30 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Maybe I'm biased, but you wouldn't get this kind of level headed response from those 'on the other side'. 

What other 'side'? That is so last year. 

[Fox1970]

I had a vaccine yesterday - the Pfizer variant. A bit of soreness in the arm and a slight headache this afternoon have been the only reactions.

 

Useful tip for anyone looking to be vaccinated: I'm not in the current qualifying groups, but my wife is through her occupation. I accompanied her to her vaccination last night and she had deliberately asked for a late appointment as the vaccination centre are keen to ensure that all vaccines are used, and she had heard that partners etc will often be given spare vaccines late in the day not used by earlier no-shows. As happened with me! 

 

 

[Manini]

2 hours ago, Fox1970 said:

I had a vaccine yesterday - the Pfizer variant. A bit of soreness in the arm and a slight headache this afternoon have been the only reactions.

 

Useful tip for anyone looking to be vaccinated: I'm not in the current qualifying groups, but my wife is through her occupation. I accompanied her to her vaccination last night and she had deliberately asked for a late appointment as the vaccination centre are keen to ensure that all vaccines are used, and she had heard that partners etc will often be given spare vaccines late in the day not used by earlier no-shows. As happened with me! 

 

 

So a question regarding this then, considering you had yours without an appointment as such, did they take your details to follow up with you in however many weeks time for your second jab? 

[Fox1970]

Yes, it was entered on the NHS database and I'll be contacted by my own surgery for the second dose appointment.

[UniFox21]

Volunteering as a marshall at a covid vaccine site tomorrow, be interesting to see how well run the place is and how many turn up.