Coronavirus Thread

[foxile5]

1 hour ago, Fktf said:

A child's social interactions with their peers are fundamental in learning cultural/societal norms - at least in western countries (I don't know the data for other cultures).

Children learn about right and wrong through their families. They learn about sharing through their families. They learn about the social standing and observe this modeled through their families. 

 

Teachers lament that hard work done in class is UNDONE through home life. 

 

You may be right that some of the work comes into place in an education setting but to suggest that families being responsible for the cultural placement of their children as being 'far from the truth' is misguided at best. 

 

From my, not insignificant, classroom experience I can tell you that students are a form of mirror to the home life - if the norms of the culture are supported at home they'll track through to the classroom. I have yet to experience an instance of a child coming into the education system without a rudimentary, but more often pronounced, understanding of societal expectations. 

 

You allude to data (though something quite as qualitative and nebulous as cultural capital and expectation doesn't seem to lend itself to conclusive data) and I'd be interested to see it. I'm currently working on a capacity that examines the relationship between attainment and reading. It's the view, shared far and wide, that habits in reading are formed at home and to try and bend or break this is a tough task. In short - the home life dictates the school life of the child. This will track through to things like 'sharing' and 'independence'. 

 

In short, and in long, this idea that somehow the students are missing out on a shared experience of unspoken education is flimsy. They will learn to share. They will learn to be independent. They will learn this outside of education because of the communal nature of human kind. They'll observe and follow what goes on at home. 

 

They WILL miss out on academic development, however, and that isn't to be understated. 

[foxile5]

If children learn all their cultural identity and societal queues at school why aren't we in a homogenous society? 

 

Because its so obviously home taught. 

[foxile5]

And went the **** aren't sharing and independence being taught at home. They're not explicit on the curriculum. 

 

Remote learning is the zenith of independence - students having to access learning on their own terms. 

 

Sharing - which seems, again an odd qualifier for school return in a risky arena - doesn't seem like a likely result of classroom based education and 2 meter separation from one another. The sharing of objects and property is explicitly banned in the schools I've been in during covid era. You're MORE likely to share at home right now. 

 

In 'play' you MIGHT have some credence for development being generated but you don't send children back to school in a pandemic just to play. 

 

[StanSP]

5 hours ago, foxile5 said:

If children learn all their cultural identity and societal queues at school why aren't we in a homogenous society? 

 

Because its so obviously home taught. 

It's a bit of both. A child learns a hell of a lot through school. And at home. It's not just one or the other. 

[The Quick Brown Fox]

10 hours ago, Md9 said:

If they are opening schools may as well just leave it to after the Easter holidays while they are already closed. Kids are doing online work so not massively missing out on to much at the minute. Or at least let you have the choice to remote learn your children if it’s possible 

My daughter cries herself to sleep most nights because she wants to see her friends (she's 6). It's horrible to see, I understand what your saying about online learning but trying to get a child to learn from the internet or online is impossible. 

The best way of getting them in school would be to vaccinate the kids and the teachers (if it is proven this reduces transmission). 

Edited 15 February 2021 by browniefox
.

[Nick]

Teachers need to be vaccinated prior to schools returning for me - inclusive of all child services related personnel. I'm rather dismayed at the news that U16's can't have a vaccine - that's a real problem. 

[dsr-burnley]

7 hours ago, foxile5 said:

Children learn about right and wrong through their families. They learn about sharing through their families. They learn about the social standing and observe this modeled through their families. 

 

Teachers lament that hard work done in class is UNDONE through home life. 

 

You may be right that some of the work comes into place in an education setting but to suggest that families being responsible for the cultural placement of their children as being 'far from the truth' is misguided at best. 

 

From my, not insignificant, classroom experience I can tell you that students are a form of mirror to the home life - if the norms of the culture are supported at home they'll track through to the classroom. I have yet to experience an instance of a child coming into the education system without a rudimentary, but more often pronounced, understanding of societal expectations. 

 

You allude to data (though something quite as qualitative and nebulous as cultural capital and expectation doesn't seem to lend itself to conclusive data) and I'd be interested to see it. I'm currently working on a capacity that examines the relationship between attainment and reading. It's the view, shared far and wide, that habits in reading are formed at home and to try and bend or break this is a tough task. In short - the home life dictates the school life of the child. This will track through to things like 'sharing' and 'independence'. 

 

In short, and in long, this idea that somehow the students are missing out on a shared experience of unspoken education is flimsy. They will learn to share. They will learn to be independent. They will learn this outside of education because of the communal nature of human kind. They'll observe and follow what goes on at home. 

 

They WILL miss out on academic development, however, and that isn't to be understated. 

If you're trying to say that children learn NOTHING about life from being in a classroom with 30 other diverse people, and any lessons to be learned there can be equally well learned at home with two parents and no other children at all, I disagree.  Schools are about more than education; with the best will in the world, a child who is home schooled till age 18 and never sees another child will not be as well rounded as one that goes to school.

 

This isn't saying that teachers must teach how to get along in a crowd.  It's just that you can't learn how to get along in a crowd if there is no crowd - it isn't theoretical knowledge.

[Md9]

54 minutes ago, browniefox said:

My daughter cries herself to sleep most nights because she wants to see her friends (she's 6). It's horrible to see, I understand what your saying about online learning but trying to get a child to learn from the internet or online is impossible. 

The best way of getting them in school would be to vaccinate the kids and the teachers (if it is proven this reduces transmission). 

It’s sad that it’s has come to her crying her self to sleep ☹️ I get that they do miss their friends but if they go back to school for a week then have to isolate they are in the same position again which is shite. As for the online learning the kids have their lessons online and the teacher is there to help if needed I get it’s not easy for everyone for it to be this way  but they have done well to keep up the work they are doing and even have class mates they can say a quick hello to. 

[foxile5]

24 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

If you're trying to say that children learn NOTHING about life from being in a classroom with 30 other diverse people, and any lessons to be learned there can be equally well learned at home with two parents and no other children at all, I disagree.  Schools are about more than education; with the best will in the world, a child who is home schooled till age 18 and never sees another child will not be as well rounded as one that goes to school.

 

This isn't saying that teachers must teach how to get along in a crowd.  It's just that you can't learn how to get along in a crowd if there is no crowd - it isn't theoretical knowledge.

I don't think I said 'Nothing' is learnt at all. Infact I didn't. You've incorrectly projected that and followed it up with conjecture and disagreed with your own conjecture. 

 

What I HAVE said is that home and familial modelling leads the way in passing on societal expectations. These might well be compounded at school but school is not the primary driver, at least in terms of 'sharing' and 'independence' which the previous poster I was talking to places such a premium on. Schools aren't providing the function that the poster wants them open to provide. They will play some role but not that significant. 

 

Couched another way - education has only been compulsory for over a century and a bit.  That's millennia of familial modelling that has been the most impactful driver for child development in societal norms. 

 

[The Quick Brown Fox]

1 hour ago, Md9 said:

It’s sad that it’s has come to her crying her self to sleep ☹️ I get that they do miss their friends but if they go back to school for a week then have to isolate they are in the same position again which is shite. As for the online learning the kids have their lessons online and the teacher is there to help if needed I get it’s not easy for everyone for it to be this way  but they have done well to keep up the work they are doing and even have class mates they can say a quick hello to. 

The school work she gets is all online training, she gets 5 minutes face time in the morning and a story in the afternoon. It's just a horrible situation for all. 

What makes it even worse is my son (aged 4) still gets to go to Nursery as they haven't closed at all. Just makes no sense at all. 

We are all ready to go back to the new normal (as long as that means we can leave the house and see others). 

[Md9]

8 minutes ago, browniefox said:

The school work she gets is all online training, she gets 5 minutes face time in the morning and a story in the afternoon. It's just a horrible situation for all. 

What makes it even worse is my son (aged 4) still gets to go to Nursery as they haven't closed at all. Just makes no sense at all. 

We are all ready to go back to the new normal (as long as that means we can leave the house and see others). 

 my youngest is in reception he seems to have more to do than the other 2 do as well at the minute which he wouldn’t probably do at school as most of the time it’s play and a bit of learning for his year. The kids are waiting to be able to go see their cousin again in London so they are hoping it goes back to normal soon just don’t want them to rush the opening of schools if they don’t need to for an extra few weeks they could use to make sure we are at a level and it stays there instead of gojng down to then shoot back up 2 weeks after they open the schools 

[Guest Fktf]

9 hours ago, foxile5 said:

Children learn about right and wrong through their families. They learn about sharing through their families. They learn about the social standing and observe this modeled through their families. 

 

Teachers lament that hard work done in class is UNDONE through home life. 

 

You may be right that some of the work comes into place in an education setting but to suggest that families being responsible for the cultural placement of their children as being 'far from the truth' is misguided at best. 

 

From my, not insignificant, classroom experience I can tell you that students are a form of mirror to the home life - if the norms of the culture are supported at home they'll track through to the classroom. I have yet to experience an instance of a child coming into the education system without a rudimentary, but more often pronounced, understanding of societal expectations. 

 

You allude to data (though something quite as qualitative and nebulous as cultural capital and expectation doesn't seem to lend itself to conclusive data) and I'd be interested to see it. I'm currently working on a capacity that examines the relationship between attainment and reading. It's the view, shared far and wide, that habits in reading are formed at home and to try and bend or break this is a tough task. In short - the home life dictates the school life of the child. This will track through to things like 'sharing' and 'independence'. 

 

In short, and in long, this idea that somehow the students are missing out on a shared experience of unspoken education is flimsy. They will learn to share. They will learn to be independent. They will learn this outside of education because of the communal nature of human kind. They'll observe and follow what goes on at home. 

 

They WILL miss out on academic development, however, and that isn't to be understated. 

I'm not really sure we're talking about the same thing with cultural rules.

 

Interactions with peers help children learn how to make friends, understand emotions and be empathetic to others, their language skills don't just develop from mimicking adults, but through talking with each other. Both social and cognitive skills develop through play (I.e. don't have to be directly taught by the teacher).

 

I of course agree home and school are intertwined, and what is learned at home will carry over into school.

[Spudulike]

I'd be a bit concerned if I had to go down the Infirmary at the moment. This has to be sorted out as the staff will be putting patients at risk.

 

BBC News - Covid: Concern at vaccine disparity in BAME health staff
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-56069325

 

 

 

[Stivo]

I think that the best strategy would be to send primary schools back first and monitor cases to gauge the impact.   Then as the vaccination program proceeds send secondary back.  

 

It is easier and more effective  to teach to older kids online and primary parents are (on average at least) younger than secondary parents so the risks to parents are lessened as well. 
 

There is a case for not requiring teachers in the groups at risk of hospitalisation ie  > 50 years old to go in until they have been vaccinated.
 

 

[foxile5]

1 hour ago, Fktf said:

I'm not really sure we're talking about the same thing with cultural rules.

 

Interactions with peers help children learn how to make friends, understand emotions and be empathetic to others, their language skills don't just develop from mimicking adults, but through talking with each other. Both social and cognitive skills develop through play (I.e. don't have to be directly taught by the teacher).

 

I of course agree home and school are intertwined, and what is learned at home will carry over into school.

Yeah sorry I'm down the rabbit hole arguing with my own criticisms of something I think, projecting them onto you

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

On 10/02/2021 at 16:17, Nalis said:

They associate it with mistrust in the government - not condoning it but they've feel like they've fvcked over by the authorities in general so its difficult to judge on that aspect as I dont spend anytime in their shoes. Saying that, there needs to be more of a push from the influencial black and south asian role models to encourage vaccine uptake in those communities.

Wow, shocking stuff. You would think surely only the minority of these communities would hold such silly preconceptions, same as the so called far right covid deniers, however thats not what the figures suggest. Very frustrating that this could set us back so much. Also, unfortunately when the death rates in black and south asian people stay higher than white, there will likely be more blame attached to racism and inequality, raising racial tensions even more.

 

Kamlesh Khunti Retweeted

 

 

 

Kamlesh Khunti

 

@kamleshkhunti

·

Feb 14

 

Our pre-print publication on #COVIDVaccine hesitancy in health care workers. Vaccination rates: White 70% South Asian 59% Black 37%

 

It seems the issue even extends to healthcare workers. A monumental effort is needed to tackle this.

[Guest Harrydc]

 

 

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

 

 

The thing that's baffling me is how one person can fit so many different logical fallacies in a 120 character Tweet. Actually rather impressive.

 

Viruses - as well as other events of nature - have something of an evolutionary advantage over us in that we get bored and tired with dealing with them, and they do not.

[Guest Harrydc]

16 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The thing that's baffling me is how one person can fit so many different logical fallacies in a 120 character Tweet. Actually rather impressive.

 

Viruses - as well as other events of nature - have something of an evolutionary advantage over us in that we get bored and tired with dealing with them, and they do not.

I think the point is that having your basic human rights taken away from you for choosing not to put something foreign into your body is just completely wrong. Especially in an age of pro-choice. I'm not anti-vax, but it should be of no concern to others what I do.

 

Especially if they're saying it doesn't stop transmission anyway. 

[Innovindil]

1 minute ago, Harrydc said:

I think the point is that having your basic human rights taken away from you for choosing not to put something foreign into your body is just completely wrong. Especially in an age of pro-choice. I'm not anti-vax, but it should be of no concern to others what I do.

 

Especially if they're saying it doesn't stop transmission anyway. 

Who's saying this? Latest study shows vaccines lower transmission. 

[fuchsntf]

On 10/02/2021 at 19:07, Line-X said:

No expertise. This isn't my background. Honestly - neither do I. 

On this topic

Your an enjoyed read, you dont throw BS assumptions around....Trying to bring some sense to the table...

 

Your football theme posts, like mine are emotive , and with wild perseptions, but thats our Fun time...innit..

 

 

[CosbehFox]

4 hours ago, Nick said:

Teachers need to be vaccinated prior to schools returning for me - inclusive of all child services related personnel. I'm rather dismayed at the news that U16's can't have a vaccine - that's a real problem. 

Under 16 testing has begun - so suspect by the time vaccination of all other age groups has been achieved, we won't be far off there either 

 

Schools which require contact with children are having their staff vaccinated 

[leicsmac]

21 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

I think the point is that having your basic human rights taken away from you for choosing not to put something foreign into your body is just completely wrong. Especially in an age of pro-choice. I'm not anti-vax, but it should be of no concern to others what I do.

 

Especially if they're saying it doesn't stop transmission anyway. 

At the risk of sounding rude, are you sure? As the remainder of that sentence - as well as other parts of the post in general - seem to contradict that sentiment.

 

Vaccinations against disease have always been a matter of public health as well as that of the individual.

[Legend_in_blue]

1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

I'd be a bit concerned if I had to go down the Infirmary at the moment. This has to be sorted out as the staff will be putting patients at risk.

 

BBC News - Covid: Concern at vaccine disparity in BAME health staff
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-56069325

 

 

 

This is exactly the problem I was eluding to yesterday.

 

At what point do we find resistance from the lower age groups when offered the vaccine?

 

And for this outcome to be taken from a sample of people who work in healthcare is even more concerning for the population at large.  

 

I don't see a huge uptake once you get through the first 9 or so groups or whatever it is.

 

 

[CosbehFox]

 

Fingers crossed the drop off is at Israeli scales and then we stop the debates