Coronavirus Thread

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

I think the point is that having your basic human rights taken away from you for choosing not to put something foreign into your body is just completely wrong. Especially in an age of pro-choice. I'm not anti-vax, but it should be of no concern to others what I do.

Issues concerning "human rights" are not "basic" but are a multi-disciplinary cognate approach inviting legal experts, philosophers, social scientists and in this case, medical ethics. Clearly, in the current crisis and in terms of vaccination, beneficence outweighs any notion of non-maleficence but the normative ethical conflict between common good - rule utilitarianism, and the individual good or (even a deontological v teleological dichotomy if you like) is very complex. During a crisis such as a global pandemic, ethical dilemmas are inherent in many spheres of the response activity, including measures to mitigate infectious disease transmission such as lockdown or vaccination. But In situations that threaten the health and well-being of others, authorities may be required to mandate vaccination and intervene on behalf of minors against parental wishes. Refusing to vaccinate is not simply a question that can be reduced to your choice or civil liberty, but the implications for the welfare of other individuals and society as a whole. This has all been explained to you before on multiple occasions, by many different members on this forum.

 

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

Especially if they're saying it doesn't stop transmission anyway. 

Who are 'they' ffs? No one is "saying" anything of the sort, unless you listen to the scaremongering rhetoric of sensationalist journalism/MSM, which you claim not to. I rather suspect this owes to your social media drip feed instead which you appear to regard as "thinking out of the box". As yet, we don't know.

 

We've always known historically, most vaccines don't fully protect against infection or transmission, even if they can block symptoms from appearing. There is no evidence that any of the current Covid-19 vaccines can completely stop people from being infected so of course this has implications for our prospects of achieving herd immunity. As a result, vaccinated people can unknowingly carry and spread pathogens. Covid-19 vaccines were never at any stage assessed on their ability to prevent transmission, (although this is now being evaluated as a secondary endpoint for many of them) - rather, their efficacy and development was based upon by whether they could prevent symptoms from developing. Science is currently exploring whether they are having an impact on infection rates in places where they have already been widely distributed. Early days but provisional data are encouraging. 

 

What we do know that vaccinated people tend to carry less virus in their bodies than unvaccinated people. This, together with current research showing that vaccinated people who still get infected have less virus than unvaccinated people - the implications being that the current vaccines likely reduce the spread of coronavirus. However, although vaccinated people appear to be less likely to transmit the virus, it remains unclear just how much transmission could still happen. This is because people’s viral load can vary significantly. It is possible that the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine, which gives the immune response an extra boost might further reduce viral loads in vaccinated people. There isn't yet any conclusive evidence that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine can prevent people from being infected with the coronavirus and therefore halt its spread. But there are some very promising signs that it might. Take a look at the latest study to emerge from Israel from Macabi Healthcare, which found of 163,000 people given a full course of the vaccine, just 31 were infected, compared to 6,500 infections in an equivalent group of unvaccinated people.

 

In respect of Oxford/Astra Zeneca, researchers have found that the vaccine cut the number of cases with detectable virus by 67% after a single standard dose, concluding that this shows the potential for a substantial reduction in transmission. 

 

Again, the Moderna trial did not examine whether the vaccine can prevent transmission, participants were checked for Covid-19 infection before they received their first and second doses, but that did mean it was possible to compare the rates of infection in these groups suggesting that the vaccine might be able to prevent two-thirds of asymptomatic cases after one shot. The sample was unfortunately too small to be conclusive.

 

You could even argue a compelling case that the emphasis on preventing transmission is a complete red herring, because once enough people have been vaccinated, it doesn't matter if they are still able to spread the virus because everyone will have immunity. As I said, it's highly unlikely that the vaccines will completely eliminate transmission and this will effect the amount of people we need to vaccinate to truly cross those herd immunity thresholds worldwide and drive down cases to somewhere near zero. So being vaccinated is more important than ever. Where that threshold lies in the UK has yet to be established. Currently, the objective is to reduce its transmission as much as possible and there is strong evidence that global vaccination programmes are indeed contributing to this. The likely prospect of not being able to completely eliminate transmission is not a reason to refuse vaccination in the first instance. 

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

239,877 vaccinations announced today.

 

237,962 first doses.

1915 second doses.

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

 

Reckon this could be a slightly lower week, letters going out to the over 65s and they are preparing for the next step in the rollout. If you or your family member is over 70 and hasn't received anything yet, get in contact with your GP.

[Guest Fktf]

3 hours ago, Harrydc said:

I think the point is that having your basic human rights taken away from you for choosing not to put something foreign into your body is just completely wrong. Especially in an age of pro-choice. I'm not anti-vax, but it should be of no concern to others what I do.

 

Especially if they're saying it doesn't stop transmission anyway. 

Simply not the case when beating a virus requires herd immunity.

[String fellow]

If the virus is spread by breathing in tiny infected water droplets, why can't the vaccine be administered in the same way? It's probably a daft question, although I suspect that there might be an anti-Covid pill developed eventually, which would doubtless solve the logistical problems of injecting everyone. Btw, what I learnt today is that 'Oxford AstraZeneca' anagrams to 'O no, a sex-crazed fart'. 

[Guest Harrydc]

17 minutes ago, Fktf said:

Simply not the case when beating a virus requires herd immunity.

I disagree. Medical information and history is private information, and nothing to do with anyone else. It's just crazy. 

[Guest Harrydc]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

 

Who are 'they' ffs? 

'They' have literally just said on the pathetic daily briefing thag 'they're' unsure on wether it stops transmission because there is not enough data. 

[Guest Fktf]

5 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

I disagree. Medical information and history is private information, and nothing to do with anyone else. It's just crazy. 

Sure, it doesn't need to be public. But your decision on whether or not to take the vaccine will have an impact on other people's lives. 

[Zear0]

10 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

'They' have literally just said on the pathetic daily briefing thag 'they're' unsure on wether it stops transmission because there is not enough data. 

Do you mean Boris?  My interpretation of what he just said was that there were signs that it was effective, but that not enough time has passed between people being vaccinated to a reduction in hospital admissions such that they can't make a quantitative assessment on the impact currently.

[Facecloth]

@Harrydc you spent the vast majority if this pandemic moaning about lockdown, and masks, and now you're bitching about the vaccine. If you think we should open everything up anyway, if you're not fussed about getting it, then why do you care if it works or not, because the only way the government are gonna end the lockdown you're so against is when most people are vaccinated, so get the jab, wait a few weeks and go for pint with your mates ffs.

[Countryfox]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

@Harrydc you spent the vast majority if this pandemic moaning about lockdown, and masks, and now you're bitching about the vaccine. If you think we should open everything up anyway, if you're not fussed about getting it, then why do you care if it works or not, because the only way the government are gonna end the lockdown you're so against is when most people are vaccinated, so get the jab, wait a few weeks and go for pint with your mates ffs.

A poem for Harry ...   along the lines of Baldricks excellent poem in Blackadder   ..   “Boom boom boom ! ...   Boom boom boom !” ....

 

 

Moan moan moan !!! ...    moan moan moan moan !,    MOAN MOAN FVCKIN MOAN !!!!! ...     

[Countryfox]

And yep ...   I’ve had a drink ...   

[Big Dave]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

239,877 vaccinations announced today.

 

237,962 first doses.

1915 second doses.

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

 

Reckon this could be a slightly lower week, letters going out to the over 65s and they are preparing for the next step in the rollout. If you or your family member is over 70 and hasn't received anything yet, get in contact with your GP.

They are usually lower on a Sunday.

[SpacedX]

25 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

'They' have literally just said on the pathetic daily briefing thag 'they're' unsure on wether it stops transmission because there is not enough data. 

 

Read my original reply to you for God's sake. That's precisely what I told you - which is completely different to this -

 

 

4 hours ago, Harrydc said:

Especially if they're saying it doesn't stop transmission anyway. 

Seriously, what's wrong with you?

[StanSP]

After smashing the 15m vaccination target (thank you NHS) has another target been set? 

 

I know they've said they'll target the 65+ and clinically vulnerable group, but that's it. 

 

What percentage of adult population has now been vaccinated? It was 1/5th the other day... 

[dsr-burnley]

35 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

'They' have literally just said on the pathetic daily briefing thag 'they're' unsure on wether it stops transmission because there is not enough data. 

If you rephrase it to "most vaccines reduce transmission and also mean that the transmitted virus causes less severe illness, and we have no evidence yet as to whether this vaccine follows the pattern of most others" you would be nearer the truth.

[Buce]

13 minutes ago, Line-X said:

 

Read my original reply to you for God's sake. That's precisely what I told you - which is completely different to this -

 

 

Seriously, what's wrong with you?

 

I think you need to dumb it down a bit lot if you expect that, mate.

[walkerleeds]

15 minutes ago, StanSP said:

After smashing the 15m vaccination target (thank you NHS) has another target been set? 

 

I know they've said they'll target the 65+ and clinically vulnerable group, but that's it. 

 

What percentage of adult population has now been vaccinated? It was 1/5th the other day... 

 

Depends which area you're in. I'm an immuniser in the North East and we're already onto the 60+ bracket.

[Parafox]

3 hours ago, Line-X said:

multi-disciplinary cognate , beneficence  non-maleficence (even a deontological v teleological dichotomy if you like)

Excellent counter-argument when you read your full post but I think these words in your opening paragraph will explode Harrydc's brain. 

[Facecloth]

2 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Excellent counter-argument when you read your full post but I think these words in your opening paragraph will explode Harrydc's brain. 

I think "a" might be too much for Harry.

[Super_horns]

15 million vaccinated- wonder if after their 3 week immunity kicks in how much of a drop in serious hospital admissions we will see ?

[FoxesDeb]

I'm going to be a bit 'mumsy' now, but can we all please try and remember that Harry may be fairly young (at least I think he is), and we already know he's been struggling a bit with all of this? 

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

6 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

I'm going to be a bit 'mumsy' now, but can we all please try and remember that Harry may be fairly young (at least I think he is), and we already know he's been struggling a bit with all of this? 

 

I've told him before to step away from this thread, social media and the news, with all the negativity it doesn't help you one bit.

 

Without trying to sound condescending, the best thing to do is to get a hobby and try to occupy your mind with other things (as hard as that may be), I know it certainly helps me when I'm having a bit of a shit time.

[Facecloth]

1 minute ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I've told him before to step away from this thread, social media and the news, with all the negativity it doesn't help you one bit.

 

Without trying to sound condescending, the best thing to do is to get a hobby and try to occupy your mind with other things (as hard as that may be), I know it certainly helps me when I'm having a bit of a shit time.

Also, if you're young and struggling to understand this stuff, listen to the people who do. Just seems like he's looking for things to complain about or worry about. I know its hard to be positive at times, but it almost seems he's trying hard to be negative.

[Bert]

Mad that people are saying they don’t want the vaccine as they fear it’s some sort of control as to knowing what everyone is up to and where they are all the time, as they type it out from their smartphone  

[Dr The Singh]

9 minutes ago, Bert said:

Mad that people are saying they don’t want the vaccine as they fear it’s some sort of control as to knowing what everyone is up to and where they are all the time, as they type it out from their smartphone  

The Mrs had it, no issues guys.  Totally agree with u