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Koke

Championship - 2020/2021

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5 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

This is the problem though. It’s not really a player-led thing is it? The Premier League implemented it as an instruction/guidance and the rest followed suit.

 

A few weeks back a couple of Championship teams didn’t do it and got widely criticised. They came out and essentially said: “we hadn’t been told we had to do it - if the guidance was there then of course we would have done it”.

 

Now I’m sure if a player really didn’t want to do it then could probably stay standing. In the same way that if a player didn’t want to join in the applause for a deceased club legend they could not clap. But the problem is that by doing either of those things they would be lambasted so the herd mentality takes over rather than the authenticity of their action.

 

Let’s not pretend this is something the vast majority of players do for any reason other than it’s the thing they’re meant to do right now. When they’re on that knee I’m sure the black players may feel they’re doing something to support a cause but I’m sure plenty of others are thinking about who they’re marking at set pieces, where they’ll make a run from kick-off and whether it’s cold enough that they should have worn gloves.

The Premier League response was coordinated by the Captains of the 20 Premier League clubs, with Wes Morgan and Troy Deeney being key to the shaping of this. How much more player led do you want it to be? 
 

There are also plenty of teams not kneeling, one of Derby’s black players stood a part of his own tribute int his very match, but there is a big difference between not taking part or having your own show of solidarity with the cause and actively booing people taking an action to show their support for anti-racism.
 

Read Mahlon Romeo’s thoughts after the match, how he was made to feel by his own ‘supporters’. He articulates it better than any of us could. 

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5 hours ago, Spudulike said:

How do you know that? Do you know the motive for the players (or anyone) that's does this gesture? Do you think there may be better ways of showing solidarity with those facing racism than adopting a pose associated with the mob you refer to? 

 

4 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

As I’ve posted Millwall and it’s players literally released a statement saying their intentions and beliefs the day before the game. 

https://www.millwallfc.co.uk/news/2020/december/first-team-squad-release-statement/

‘’We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout.’’ 

“We will continue to do this until the start of the New Year when a new and comprehensive anti-discrimination strategy will be announced by the club.”

I've met a lot of footballers over the years, mainly through my job, and by and large they're not political animals in the slightest.

I just don't get why Millwall fans, or anyone for that matter, get so vocally aggravated by players quietly dropping to their knee for a couple of seconds in a show of solidarity against discrimination.

The excuses people have been hiding behind really saddens me.

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7 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

I've met a lot of footballers over the years, mainly through my job, and by and large they're not political animals in the slightest.

I just don't get why Millwall fans, or anyone for that matter, get so vocally aggravated by players quietly dropping to their knee for a couple of seconds in a show of solidarity against discrimination.

The excuses people have been hiding behind really saddens me.

They’ve been showing support against discrimination for years, say no to racism etc are football led anti discrimination movements, BLM is not, it is a political movement that also has black supremacy and black power as part of its manifesto, read what the co founder of the movement has said on these issues if you don’t believe me. By taking the knee, sports people have decided to become part of that movement whether they like it or not, and now that there is an voice against their actions i.e. fans returning and making known their feelings on the matter, players and clubs are putting out statements to protect their popularity.

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16 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

I've met a lot of footballers over the years, mainly through my job, and by and large they're not political animals in the slightest.

I just don't get why Millwall fans, or anyone for that matter, get so vocally aggravated by players quietly dropping to their knee for a couple of seconds in a show of solidarity against discrimination.

The excuses people have been hiding behind really saddens me.

I can answer that easily for you. Taking the knee is associated with the BLM movement which is what people are against. BLM is a political movement which is unpalatable for many.

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9 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

I agree that the political side of the BLM organisation may have some questions attached to it but the Black Lives Matter message is incredibly important for me as is the overall narrative of ending discrimination of all types.

 

As I said before, I genuinely don't think footballers when they take the knee have the defund-the-police or statue-defacing stuff in their minds at that moment or at any moment.

I think it's an excuse for those with (IMHO) 'questionable views' on race (consciously or unconsciously) to hide behind.

So what was wrong with the say no to racism campaign that football was involved with, apart from the fact it did appear to be working.

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15 hours ago, David Hankey said:

It is an Americanism. Started over there by American footballers, fair enough. We're all entitled to an opinion and just because I don't agree with this particular action doesn't mean I'm a racist and I take exception to everyone including Dublin & Richards who reckons otherwise.

Regardless of where it came from the reason it has taken such a prominent role in pre-games up and down England is because there is a group who feel discriminated against. They’ve chosen this symbol after years of such discrimination to get the point across. What I am asking is after years of “kick racism out” campaigns, surely booing the stand is not the way forward. It’s to appreciate the sentiment. Some are feeling discriminated against more then others. Despite years of campaigning, It’s still not made a vast difference to that position. This applies to everyday life, not just sport. 
 

So if they turned around and simply sat on the floor would that be acceptable or should they not make a stand at all and just accept it. 

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24 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

What is it about anti racism that makes so many white people so insecure? 
 

Never met any person of colour who finds it so uncomfortable to talk about as the average white bloke does  

It’s not insecurity, it’s the fact that white people don’t know what they can and cannot say without fear of being labelled racist. Whether people like it or not, this country was predominantly white and those people have had to come to terms with integration, and integration is going to create conflict but through the passage of time that conflict disappears, stick a bunch of Liverpool fans in the stretford end at old Trafford and see what happens, let them in every week for 30 years and you’d have a different story. I always thought that referring to someone as being black was offensive and that coloured was correct and that was what was taught in my school. Now I’m being told by my daughter, who has to attend racial awareness courses through her job that coloured is a big no no and if you have to describe someone by the colour of their skin then you use black, obviously if that person is black. And fundamentally, this is why some people are against the BLM movement because if you’re  not okay with it, you’re labelled a racist.

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18 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Well it clearly wasn't working well enough judging by some responses here and elsewhere to footballers taking a knee.

Well maybe players and their clubs should have taken a little more time in deciding whether or not they should be supporting a political movement.

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42 minutes ago, filbertway said:

If the players stop doing it will that make them racist? 

 

Stopping the gesture must be worse than booing the gesture.

My view that it is up to the players and staff. If they feel it's important enough, or visible enough, to carry on then they should. If they don't then fine.

 

QPR collectively decided to stop doing it- not a problem. If Millwall stop or carry on- entirely up to them.

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40 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Regardless of where it came from the reason it has taken such a prominent role in pre-games up and down England is because there is a group who feel discriminated against. They’ve chosen this symbol after years of such discrimination to get the point across. What I am asking is after years of “kick racism out” campaigns, surely booing the stand is not the way forward. It’s to appreciate the sentiment. Some are feeling discriminated against more then others. Despite years of campaigning, It’s still not made a vast difference to that position. This applies to everyday life, not just sport. 
 

So if they turned around and simply sat on the floor would that be acceptable or should they not make a stand at all and just accept it. 

The fact is this "act" wouldn't be a part of our lives if the American footballers hadn't started it. And it's not a question of 'BLM'  -  ALL LIVES MATTER!!

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2 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

It’s almost as though that no one actually told any of the players what taking the knee is in support off until in the dressing room after the game when someone asked why the fans were booing.

No cos the statement came from the players, not the staff. I think Millwall’s black right back full understands it. Particularly given the original origin of the knee 

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10 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

The fact is this "act" wouldn't be a part of our lives if the American footballers hadn't started it. And it's not a question of 'BLM'  -  ALL LIVES MATTER!!

I think you'll find that Black Lives Matter is not saying ONLY black lives matter.

They're well aware that all lives matter.

They're just trying to battle against discrimination.

Some of us want to help that. You clearly don't.

 

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3 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

I think you'll find that Black Lives Matter is not saying ONLY black lives matter.

They're well aware that all lives matter.

They're just trying to battle against discrimination.

Some of us want to help that. You clearly don't.

 

It's truly astonishing the amount of people who genuinely think they do.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

I think you'll find that Black Lives Matter is not saying ONLY black lives matter.

They're well aware that all lives matter.

They're just trying to battle against discrimination.

Some of us want to help that. You clearly don't.

 

There is discrimination across the world irrespective of colour. As I say 'ALL' lives matter.

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11 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

You're really not doing yourself any favours here.

Of course all lives matter.

And they all will matter when black lives are treated equally.

That's the point.

And you are not doing yourself any favours either. It's not a question of black and white.  Are you saying all non-black people are treated equally, I don't think so.

 

Now let's get on with the football and give this Americanism a rest.

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5 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

And you are not doing yourself any favours either. It's not a question of black and white.  Are you saying all non-black people are treated equally, I don't think so.

 

Now let's get on with the football and give this Americanism a rest.

Weird insecure little bloke 

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45 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

The fact is this "act" wouldn't be a part of our lives if the American footballers hadn't started it. And it's not a question of 'BLM'  -  ALL LIVES MATTER!!

I don’t care where it started. I’m asking you and anyone else that if there is a group in society who repeatedly feel injustice, which is the case here and despite repeated campaigns to reduce or even better eradicate such injustice, what do you suggest they do? Do they just accept it ? 
 

the knee is a way of saying enough - sort this. Don’t stick on a t-shirt pre-warm up and feel warm inside. There is a group of society that feels discriminated against. So, until there is a genuine attempt to understand and and fix that, you can’t then criticise the stand. This was a global campaign that had the attention to make it appealing to fight such campaign. 
 

and finally, of course “all lives matter”. The point is that all lives should matter and the discrimination doesn’t allow that to happen at this moment for whatever reason.

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