How many 'top 4' performances did you witness this season from Leicester?

[HighPeakFox]

53 minutes ago, Matt said:

Probably not that many at all.

 

Even when we were playing 'well' early in the season I can't say I was exactly wowed but that's what this boring style brings I guess.

Much as I disagree, this at least addresses the question I posed.

[turkish14]

3 hours ago, StanSP said:

The wins over Arsenal and Spurs?

Southampton away obviously.

 

Beating Villa home and away.

 

Away at Palace?

Other than spurs home, and Newcastle home/away I’d agree with them 

[harpendenfox]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Probably not that many at all.

 

Even when we were playing 'well' early in the season I can't say I was exactly wowed but that's what this boring style brings I guess.

In many games we were sensational. If you weren’t wowed by us during the winning run I fear you will never be happy

[Trav Le Bleu]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Our record vs the better sides this season was mediocre/poor. Thst is something we have to improve upon. There were so many standout performances though this season, I just hope we can arrest this slump as Rodgers had us playing some of the best football I have ever seen at Leicester, we were scintillating. 

We matched Spurs blow for blow, maybe even shaded it, but they beat us 3-0. In many ways it was the best performance after the restart. But in general, yes, I agree. People calling for Rodgers to go seem to forget that as you say, he had us playing scintillating football. My only fear is that years of managing Celtic have left him unfamiliar with motivating a team that has lost a few games.

Edited 29 July 2020 by Trav Le Bleu

[Foxaholic ME]

3 hours ago, Hollyfox said:

Soton away (obviously) 

Spurs and arsenal at home. 

Palace and Villa away 

 

Often wondered how we'd have got on if the Man City and Liverpool games hadn't have been back to back. 

 

Might have had time to get 3 points from an easier game, after City, and got our confidence back. 

 

We'll never know, but those 2 defeats shook us😒

I  didnt go but  surely Arsenal  away must have been reasonable considering our record there  I would suggest  together with possiblly Chelsea away allmatches fans expected to lose they did which was probablly  why a 5th place was no way celebrated as it should have been.

[foxinsocks]

The number of top four performances is not relevant while we are so inconsistent.  We lost to Norwich and Bournemouth and allowed Watford to draw - the three relegated clubs - in "must win" matches that a top club should walk.  (We got knocked out of the League cup by villa over two matches!!)

I will feel better when we are not making such slip-ups. It is not good being brilliant one week and then screwing up the next.

[Steve Earle]

13 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Our record vs the better sides this season was mediocre/poor. Thst is something we have to improve upon. There were so many standout performances though this season, I just hope we can arrest this slump as Rodgers had us playing some of the best football I have ever seen at Leicester, we were scintillating. 

2 points from the 8 games played against the top four isn't mediocre/poor, it's shocking. Our 9 points from 12 games against the big 6 put us lower than half way up a table of who-got-what against the big 6, level with Bournemouth.

In truth we never (second half at Chelsea aside) looked like laying a glove on the top four, and after Boxing Day, played them all with little hope and no expectation.

[Tom12345]

14 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

We played some fantastic stuff in the run before Christmas we were sweeping sides away ruthlessly. I would love us to start playing like that again, instead of the ponderous sideways piffle we have served up since Christmas.

 

I genuinely think when we played like that we are one of the best most entertaining sides to watch, like someone above said probably the best I have ever seen. The sad part is some of the recent games have been some of the worst too, Bournemouth in particular.

 

Rodgers also shows far too much respect for the bigger sides which I think was the start of our downfall. If you go head to head with these sides battle and get beat fair enough, but we rolled over and let them tickle our belly.

 

I hope we can bring in the players required to reinvigorate the side. As a minimum we need a defender, a creative midfielder, a least one winger, a Vardy replacement, and some squad players for the extra games. If we cant afford to bring in additional players we might need to revisit the likes of Silva. 

Just to add on top of what you have (and specifically to your first point), I think importantly it was not just because of a change of mindset or style of play, it was because we were found out by the opposition, starting with Norwich on 14 Dec, then Man City and Liverpool in the next two league games. I remember very vividly.  If I can break it down further:

 

- Prior to that point, we could play free flowing football because BR brilliantly used Vardy to stretch out the opposition. During that time, we were still “known” as being a counter attacking team because of “know nothing” pundits. So teams focussed more on neutralising Vardy’s runs by sitting deeper at times and were not minded to press us at our back. This worked well as BR was also trying to build up our possession football and attacks from our midfield players, so our players had more room and time to build up other ways of attacks, while us playing possession football including passing around at the back gave us the occasional space for Vardy to run onto when the opposition gets drawn upfield. We saw how lethal we can be back then.

 

- However, since Norwich (I distinctly remember at the time while watching that game feeling “oh sh*t” if other teams catch this we are in trouble) the opposition learnt that they could neutralise us by simply doing the following: (1) press us at the back especially our CBs and Ndidi and not worry about as much focussing on defending Vardy and our attacking midfield because then we found it very hard to get the ball upfield;  (2) focus on pressing us to force to ball to our left side with Chilwell because while he is good at running with the ball as we have discussed his final ball is often dismal and otherwise he just passes backwards (I am not having a go at Chilwell here - he has strengths and weaknesses and the opposition saw his weaknesses).  The end result is that we ended up passing backwards often. To the naked eyes and pundits who don’t actually watch the games before going on TV commentating, it looked like we have dropped off in form or changed style, but in reality we have not. We have just been found out but unfortunately BR did not see that and insisted on playing the same formation and same “possession” football with the same players. This was enormously difficult to watch this unfold - it was like watching a car crash in slow motion.

 

The pressing after Norwich worked because two key options for the CBs to pass up the ball - namely Ndidi and Chilwell - when pressed just knew how to pass backwards. I have to say, Ndidi, before he was injured in January, was improving significantly in this regard but his injury hampered progress. But that means whenever the ball got to the 4 players in that back zone (Evans, Soy, Ndidi and Chilwell) we do sideway or backward passing. Yes, maybe this is why BR asked Maddison to drop back to help out, but unfortunately Maddison had limited options as many of the options around him were those same 4 players, and he is unfortunately not at Messi or De Bruyne level (and his long passing were not quite accurate or long enough) such that BR can place so much reliance on him there to play that role. Also, Maddison is better near the top as we know. This tactic employed by BR also took Tielemans out of his game because he saw very little of the ball. We had the occasional excitement coming from the right as Ricardo was exceptional and with Tielemans often sitting around that side from time to time we saw exciting moves built up on the right. On the left, we rarely had that except when on the occasions Barnes got the ball as he is a pretty direct player (just like Albrighton).  So in summary, a big reason for our downfall was that BR did not know how to react and change his ways/playing personnel. He insisted on the same players in his favourite list and made some players played roles they were not good at (square pegs through round holes).

 

For next year, therefore, we need to:

- reconsider how we employ Chilwell (he can still be our first choice LB but he cannot be asked to be our creative spark on the left as he is not a winger or an attacker; he also must learn a reliable way to pass upfield). Chilwell gets a lot of stick because of this but it was not all his fault. If needed, Luke Thomas should be given a chance;

- reconsider how we employ Maddison;

- reconsider how we employ Ndidi (if he is a bit more like Kante passing-wise half our problems as mentioned above can be solved);

- reconsider formation like a back 3 which I thought didnt work so badly in the last few games to get around our deficiencies (because our CBs had more options to pass the ball up) and to suit players he likes to play;

- not be too defensively minded!!

 

Interested to hear others’ thoughts on the above.

 

Edited 30 July 2020 by Tom12345

[Koke]

14 hours ago, AKCJ said:

Chelsea A, Sheffield United A, Spurs H, Newcastle H, Southampton A, Palace A, Arsenal H, Brighton A, Villa A, Newcastle A, West Ham H, Man City H, Palace H, Sheffield United H

 

I agree with most of those but Chelsea away they battered us first half, they should have been out of sight. Second half we took over the game and dominated. In the end a draw was a fair result. 

 

Also, Man City at home was so underwhelming. Another big team we surrendered to so easily. 

[Koke]

Southampton away 9-0

Newcastle home 5-0

Newcastle away 3-0

West Ham home 4-1

West Ham away 2-1 (with our reserves)

Aston Villa away 4-1

Aston Villa home 4-0

Arsenal home 2-0

Palace home 3-0

Brighton away 2-0

 

All those performances were from a team of top 4 quality.

[Footballwipe]

19 minutes ago, Koke said:

 

I agree with most of those but Chelsea away they battered us first half, they should have been out of sight. Second half we took over the game and dominated. In the end a draw was a fair result. 

 

Also, Man City at home was so underwhelming. Another big team we surrendered to so easily. 

At the risk of looking like I'm taking an alternative view, I'd say that that's almost a top 4 performance in itself. The ability to soak up the battering (and they only scored due to a mistake from Ndidi) and then take a stranglehold on the game in the second half.

 

People (not you Koke) seem to think Top 4 performances is just a case of battering teams, or breezing through the more "simple" matches. My argument is that all "top 4" teams have days when they're up against it, especially when it's a team of a similar standard. For us to do what we did in that game set our stall out that we could take a rampant Chelsea, smarting from their 4-0 trouncing on their opening day, resist the pressure and then turn it on after the break, was very encouraging. 

[Countryfox]

Not that many tbh ..  our biggest problem was playing like a top 4 team in many games but also playing like a relegation battler in the same game.  

[HighPeakFox]

A lot of interesting points of view - amazing that some people get the premise of the thread and that it seems beyond others. That's life I guess.

[StriderHiryu]

4 hours ago, Koke said:

Southampton away 9-0

Newcastle home 5-0

Newcastle away 3-0

West Ham home 4-1

West Ham away 2-1 (with our reserves)

Aston Villa away 4-1

Aston Villa home 4-0

Arsenal home 2-0

Palace home 3-0

Brighton away 2-0

 

All those performances were from a team of top 4 quality.

All these plus isolated parts of other games too.

 

- Chelsea second half in away and home matches. First half in the cup against them too where we we should have been two or three up.

- Bournemouth Home and also away the first half we dominated them before we sh*t the bed. 

- Sheffield United home.

- Palace away. We usually struggle there but looked really classy on the day.

[Leeds Fox]

21 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

That's interesting, because I thought the first half was absolutely fantastic. The less said about the 2nd half, the better!

We were in control for the entirety of the first half, but that isn’t enough to win a football game. The performance over 90mins was abysmal. We didn’t do enough in the first half to allow ourselves to collapse like that. 

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, Leeds Fox said:

We were in control for the entirety of the first half, but that isn’t enough to win a football game. The performance over 90mins was abysmal. We didn’t do enough in the first half to allow ourselves to collapse like that. 

Without question, but again, that's not the point of the question I posed.

[Leeds Fox]

7 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Without question, but again, that's not the point of the question I posed.

I wasn’t trying to disagree, just an observation regarding the performance on the whole.

 

Very true, I didn’t read the OP... lesson learned 

[Countryfox]

5 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

A lot of interesting points of view - amazing that some people get the premise of the thread and that it seems beyond others. That's life I guess.

Which ones are the fools who can’t see it Peaky ...   

[Hollyfox]

17 hours ago, Foxaholic ME said:

I  didnt go but  surely Arsenal  away must have been reasonable considering our record there  I would suggest  together with possiblly Chelsea away allmatches fans expected to lose they did which was probablly  why a 5th place was no way celebrated as it should have been.

Arsenal away was good in parts but Kasper kept us in it at times. 

What disappointed me was our lack of ruthlessness when we had 7 or so minutes of normal time and 8 minutes of extra time against 10 men that didn't show any attacking intent. 

 

Still a very good season for us but a shame at the end

[lanefox]

Apart from the obvious, 2nd half versus chelsea away we were sublime, and same with liverpool away 2nd half we deserved something from that game

Edited 30 July 2020 by lanefox

[Nicolo Barella]

All the times we won by significant margins. The Arsenal game. These just for starters.

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

Which ones are the fools who can’t see it Peaky ...   

You can read the thread and make your own mind up about that.

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

You can read the thread and make your own mind up about that.

Not sure if I’m clever enough mate as you mentioned it straight after my post ...   am I one ?

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Not sure if I’m clever enough mate as you mentioned it straight after my post ...   am I one ?

No, I think you make a very valid point. All I was trying to ascertain is how often did our performances look top 4, rather than the results. Some people have said some really excellent things, or gone off at interesting tangents, but missed the simple premise I was aiming for.

 

For my part, it dulls the pain of 'only' finishing 5th that although I loved the wins, there was something in the way we lost form just before Xmas that wasn't very 'Top 4'-esque. In retrospect, and with the benefit of hindsight, it seems clear to me that we weren't/aren't ready, and much as I wanted CL and a potential trip to Munich/Barcelona/Paris, the cloud of collapse perhaps (and I stress perhaps) has a silver lining. 

 

This isn't some attempt to justify the team imploding, or somehow say 'everything is ok' - I'm doing neither. I simply seek to understand where the club and team are right now.

[Countryfox]

12 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

No, I think you make a very valid point. All I was trying to ascertain is how often did our performances look top 4, rather than the results. Some people have said some really excellent things, or gone off at interesting tangents, but missed the simple premise I was aiming for.

 

For my part, it dulls the pain of 'only' finishing 5th that although I loved the wins, there was something in the way we lost form just before Xmas that wasn't very 'Top 4'-esque. In retrospect, and with the benefit of hindsight, it seems clear to me that we weren't/aren't ready, and much as I wanted CL and a potential trip to Munich/Barcelona/Paris, the cloud of collapse perhaps (and I stress perhaps) has a silver lining. 

 

This isn't some attempt to justify the team imploding, or somehow say 'everything is ok' - I'm doing neither. I simply seek to understand where the club and team are right now.

Know what you mean about the silver lining,  but we both know that if we had have finished  in the top 4 then the the positives  (attracting better players,  keeping better players ..   magical away days ...   the extra revenue ! )  would have made whether we deserved it or not irrelevant.  That and fooking up in the cups was just too much for me and pain dulling is going to take a good while longer ...   oh the sports news is on the tv now ! ..   all about the FA cup final !  ...  happy days ...