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UniFox21

2020/21 Under 23's, U19's, Development ... thread

By UniFox21, in Leicester City Forum

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jeffschlupp

jeffschlupp

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Yeah I imagine thst will be the likely reason but even prior to the pandemic I've not been happy with the way we run it. Our recruitment in the 16-19 age category is lacking. We pick up released players from clubs worse than us or on a par with us and the odd lower league player but we also retain players until they are 22-23 and I think the whole system needs an overhaul and quickening up.

 

We never seem to purchase some of the best academy players from around the world and then look to develop them, this is where I think there's a gap in our model. We happily buy the best young players aged 19 - 24 and look to turn profits as well as progress the first team immediately but there's also an opportunity to buy 16 - 18 year old for several hundred thousand or a few million and then do something equally as beneficial to the club. 

 

I cannot think of a single " academy " player we have signed in their late teens that has gone on to be a success either in our first team or where we have made a significant amount on. Hopefully Kamal Sowah, George Hirst and Daniel Iversen will break this mould but we can do much better. Stop retaining players with no chance of making it here until their early to mid twenties and recruit better quality to fill the gaps and improve the whole system. I like what Brighton are doing with their academy and something similar here would strengthen our entire footballing operation.

 

The current set up just seems way out of sync with the new training ground and how our first team model works. Time to consider if loyalty to the old guard who run the academy is actually holding us back. Dave Rennie has been cast aside after 20+ years of service to this club and I wonder if Rodgers is setting his sights on an academy overhaul. I know he doesn't run the whole show and rightly so but I hope the club listen to his ideas in this regard, Rodgers is just as experienced as Jon Rudkin when it comes to academies.

I don't think the issue of 16-18 year old recruitment is something exclusive to us. You look at the other top clubs and most of their academy successes have been in the academy a long time (Alexander-Arnold, Foden etc.), it's quite rare you see players recruited late into academies who then make it.

 

I think the club have clearly changed plans this summer, whether that is a conscious plan or COVID-enforced I don't know. But it is a very thin U23 squad this year in terms of age and depth - you would expect the more experienced bunch of Clark, Hughes, Ndukwu, Muskwe etc. to generate loan interest just as Johnson, Eppiah and Hirst have, and you might throw Leshabela, Tavares etc. in there too.

 

If a fair few of that bunch sort EFL loans, you probably only have 12-15 recognised U23 players, in which case you are regularly calling upon the next group from the U18s like Pennant, Arlott-John, McAteer, Nelson as we saw last night.

 

Every so often when the U23s play crap we have this same discussion in these threads about the standard of coaching, but I do not believe it is that bad. Good players will shine in any system - yes, you can help them on the way with better coaching, but there's only so much you can teach an already talented player. Academy football is, and always has been a shit standard - there is too much turnover of players from week-to-week and season-to-season, inexperience etc. to generate any sort of obvious playing style or consistent moments of quality.

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, jeffschlupp said:

I don't think the issue of 16-18 year old recruitment is something exclusive to us. You look at the other top clubs and most of their academy successes have been in the academy a long time (Alexander-Arnold, Foden etc.), it's quite rare you see players recruited late into academies who then make it.

 

I think the club have clearly changed plans this summer, whether that is a conscious plan or COVID-enforced I don't know. But it is a very thin U23 squad this year in terms of age and depth - you would expect the more experienced bunch of Clark, Hughes, Ndukwu, Muskwe etc. to generate loan interest just as Johnson, Eppiah and Hirst have, and you might throw Leshabela, Tavares etc. in there too.

 

If a fair few of that bunch sort EFL loans, you probably only have 12-15 recognised U23 players, in which case you are regularly calling upon the next group from the U18s like Pennant, Arlott-John, McAteer, Nelson as we saw last night.

 

Every so often when the U23s play crap we have this same discussion in these threads about the standard of coaching, but I do not believe it is that bad. Good players will shine in any system - yes, you can help them on the way with better coaching, but there's only so much you can teach an already talented player. Academy football is, and always has been a shit standard - there is too much turnover of players from week-to-week and season-to-season, inexperience etc. to generate any sort of obvious playing style or consistent moments of quality.

Dortmund and a few of the best European clubs for academies will recruite regularly of the best academy players from around the world. Some of them might cost a few million but the return in value or benefit to the first team can be vast. I know its not easy, teams are reluctant to let their academy stars go as they get less than they would when they have brought them through themselves in to the first team but I'm talking about youngsters from countries like Scandinavia, Eastern Europe and even further afield where we can use Leuven as a pathway to obtaining a work permit.

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sacreblueits442

sacreblueits442

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Collymore said:

I think it's a dream for many for your son to play for Leicester but I'd probably have to think twice about  entering mine on to Leicester City's conveyor belt. Think you'd have a better chance at a smaller club and working up the league on merit. 

 

 

 

...so, what you are saying is, we are too big!!!

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Ian Nacho

Ian Nacho

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It is odd with our youth side that you get the odd name that's been around for years; Muskwe, Ndukwu, Hughes etc, but never seem to go to the next level. Ndukwu for example, been in the U23's for a good few years now, gone out on loan and it didn't really work. What I don't understand why the club doesn't just release Ndukwu because he's never going to make it here, if he hasn't already and he hasn't done anything out on loan. Surely it's best for all parties for him to go to a League 2 club or something to learn his trade. 

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Lambert09

Lambert09

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Posted
29 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

It is odd with our youth side that you get the odd name that's been around for years; Muskwe, Ndukwu, Hughes etc, but never seem to go to the next level. Ndukwu for example, been in the U23's for a good few years now, gone out on loan and it didn't really work. What I don't understand why the club doesn't just release Ndukwu because he's never going to make it here, if he hasn't already and he hasn't done anything out on loan. Surely it's best for all parties for him to go to a League 2 club or something to learn his trade. 

Its a tough call tbh. You are probably correct, and using your example Ndukwu really doesnt seem like he will be good enough but some players just take a little longer to hit their potential. The club obviously see talent in there and just hope that he can hit his potential. 

 

A club that culls to quick also ends up missing out on a lot of late bloomers.  A under 23 players wage is nothing to a club like ours, so I can see why we'd be tempted to see how players like him progress. The balance is very fine. 

 

We have taken a big step this year and given younger guys the opportunity and consequently the performances will suffer. Which can often halt some of the player potential as getting walloped by teams each week isnt helpful. 

 

 

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davieG

davieG

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https://the72.co.uk/195526/wycombe-wanderers-set-to-move-for-leicester-city-defender/

 

WYCOMBE WANDERERS SET TO MOVE FOR LEICESTER CITY DEFENDER
ADAM ALLCROFT  @ADAMALLCROFT 1 HOUR AGO
Wycombe Wanderers are looking to sign Leicester City’s Josh Knight on loan according to a report from the Leicester Mercury.

The 23-year-old defender has been at Leicester since he was 8-years-old but he is yet to make his league debut for the Foxes. He did make his competitive debut for Leicester back in 2017 in a League Cup match against Sheffield United. In order to gain first team experience, he has been loaned out to Peterborough United on two different occasions.

After a successful stint with Peterborough at the end of last season, Leicester believe that Knight is ready for Sky Bet Championship football. He has been working with the first team during the close season and while he isn’t good enough yet to challenge for a spot in their first team, he should be a good addition for a Championship side.


And it is Wycombe who are likely to be the team to snap him up. The Chairboys have had a miserable start to life in the Championship after losing all four of their opening games without even scoring a goal. They desperately need something to give a spark to the team so they can pick up points and stay in this division. They will be hoping that Knight is that man.

What will be interesting will be the way Peterborough fans react. Wycombe overtook Peterborough in the league table to get a play-off place due to the way the EFL decided to end the season early due to Covid-19. Wycombe then went on to win promotion and there has been antagonism between the two clubs since. Peterborough fans may not like that a well-liked player is now at a team they believe cheated them out of promotion.

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moore_94

moore_94

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Defender Josh Knight has joined Sky Bet Championship side Wycombe Wanderers on loan until 3 January, subject to Football League approval.

 

The 23-year-old made 26 appearances on loan at Peterborough United last season, and will now continue his development in the second tier with the Chairboys. 

Knight joined City’s Academy at the age of eight and has progressed through the ranks, signing a new contract in January 2019 keeping him at the Club until at least 2021.

He made his debut for Leicester City’s first team in a 4-1 win over Sheffield United in the Carabao Cup in August 2017 and was part of the Foxes’ Under-21s group that won the Hong Kong Soccer Sevens tournament that same year.

Gareth Ainsworth’s outfit – who were promoted to the Championship via the play-offs in 2019/20 – are next in action at home to Millwall on Saturday.  

Edited by moore_94
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RobHawk

RobHawk

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I think it speaks volumes that nobody higher up in the championship appeared ready to give him a shot. 

 

I think it's very much a chance for him to show he's up to the challenge of the championship and see what offers come in during January. If he's not ready to step up to a better team on loan, he may well be gone.

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Foxxed

Foxxed

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Posted
2 hours ago, RobHawk said:

I think it speaks volumes that nobody higher up in the championship appeared ready to give him a shot. 

 

I think it's very much a chance for him to show he's up to the challenge of the championship and see what offers come in during January. If he's not ready to step up to a better team on loan, he may well be gone.

Josh has a contract here, and has since he was a in single digits, and he's trying to make it in the Championship, while changing positions on loan and suffering injuries. You make it sound like he's taking up two seats on noah's arc.

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

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Posted

Tavares away with Portugal U20's so won't feature in the EFL trophy tonight, not that he would have done anyway. Hope the Pennant brothers get a chance, we've been pure doggo with the usual suspects in the PL2 the last 3 games, mix it up a bit.

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Foxxed

Foxxed

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Tavares away with Portugal U20's so won't feature in the EFL trophy tonight, not that he would have done anyway. Hope the Pennant brothers get a chance, we've been pure doggo with the usual suspects in the PL2 the last 3 games, mix it up a bit.

Isn’t this one of the reasons we should keep around the older players who probably won’t make it in the prem? To give the youngsters a decent team to play in?

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RobHawk

RobHawk

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Posted
1 hour ago, Foxxed said:

Josh has a contract here, and has since he was a in single digits, and he's trying to make it in the Championship, while changing positions on loan and suffering injuries. You make it sound like he's taking up two seats on noah's arc.

Nah you got that all wrong, I was aiming my comment at those trying to work out what would happen in January. 

 

My point was we need to see progression and the championship is the next step. Unfortunately, regardless of how good he was at posh, the only championship team ready to take the chance on him was Wycombe, who lets face it, are doggo. 

 

If he does well and the progression is there, the next step in January would be a higher championship team with a view to another contract, given he is progressing. 

 

If the progression isn't there, they may cut their losses and sell in Jan to a team like posh who were desperate for him. 

 

I don't think that's out there thinking to be honest

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moore_94

moore_94

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Tavares away with Portugal U20's so won't feature in the EFL trophy tonight, not that he would have done anyway. Hope the Pennant brothers get a chance, we've been pure doggo with the usual suspects in the PL2 the last 3 games, mix it up a bit.

Even our u18s have been doggo so far this season and have lost all 3 games they have played

 

Really needs to be a shake up, hopefully it happens when we move training grounds

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

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3 hours ago, Foxxed said:

Isn’t this one of the reasons we should keep around the older players who probably won’t make it in the prem? To give the youngsters a decent team to play in?

I think its a balance of that. Right now the conveyor belt of players moving from U16's, to U18's to U23's is too slow, as is the desire to retain many academy players well in to their 20's. I don't dismiss the use of some and to simply bin them all off or refuse to play them now will potentially leave us ill equipped to compete at these levels but the end goal in mind has got to be to improve the transition amongst the age groups, to expose these players to a better standard of football earlier. 

 

This has to be part of an academy overhaul, better coaches and better recruitment too. We need serious investment, it should be as much of a priority as the key first team objectives.

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Lambert09

Lambert09

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Posted (edited)

I wonder if the international break means we will bring in Thomas and Dewsbury-Hall for this one. Gives them a chance to play and quarantine if necessary before the squad returns. 

 

I hope we do, I’m worried about their development with the lack of minutes. 

Edited by Lambert09
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davieG

davieG

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Posted

From the Club Media Guide - https://resources.lcfc.com/leicesterfc/document/2020/03/11/42923ebd-1095-45ae-b14c-c34938214ea4/Media-Guide-11-March-2020.pdf

 

Academy Manager Ian Cawley
Head of Technical Coaching Dmitri Halajko
Academy Administrator Debbie Collins
Assistant Academy Administrator Evie Grewcock
Senior Professional Development Coach (U23) Steve Beaglehole
Assistant Senior Professional Development Coach (U23) Ben Petty
Physiotherapist (U23) Dan Dagia
Sports Scientist (U23) Perry Nosek
Player Liaison (U18-U23) Leon McSweeney
Loans Manager Guy Branston
Academy Head Physiotherapist Ben Harwood
Academy Physiotherapist Jordan Ward
Academy Physiotherapist (Part-Time) James Stupples
Academy Physiotherapist (U18) Tom Gibson
Head of Academy Sports Science Kevin Paxton
Academy Lead Strength and Conditioning Coach Matt Cheverton
Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach Chris Organ
Lead Academy Sports Scientist Gary Capes
Assistant Sports Scientist Alieen Campbell
Academy Goalkeeping Coach Glyn Thompson
Goalkeeping Coach (Part-Time) Justin Bowley
Goalkeeping Coach (9-16) Adam Skinner
Head of Coach Development Paul Cheney
CAIS Coach Education Sean Rooney
Kit Co-ordinator Sean Rooney
Kit Co-ordinator Henry Crook
Lead Foundation Coach Richard Keeling
Assistant Lead Foundation Coach (5-11) Stuart McClarty
Pre-Academy Lead Coach and Co-ordinator Mark Lyons
Lead Youth Development Coach Matt Goodwin
Assistant Lead Youth Development Coach (12-16) Rodney Ballantine
Youth Development Phase Coach (12-16) Adam Barradell
Youth Development Phase Coach (12-16) Matt Rains
Lead Professional Phase Coach (U18) Trevor Peake
Assistant Professional Development Coach Steve Kirby
Lead Performance Analyst Ryan DeFreitas
Performance Analyst (U23) Paul Mitchell

 

Performance Analyst (U18) Ben Waters
Academy Performance Analyst Luke Dickson
Head of Academy Recruitment Bill Wall
Assistant Recruitment Steve Kinson
Recruitment Analyst Adam Fox
Safeguarding and Welfare Officer Dale Bradshaw
Head of Academy Education Matt Clarke
Academy Tutor (Part-Time) Mark Walker
Academy Minibus Swaran Singh
External Contracts
Psychology Karl Steptoe (Mind to Perform)
Nutrition Matt Westmoreland
FITM Mentor Katrina Bakewell
Club Accommodation Paul and Tracy Connors
House Parents x3

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lambert09 said:

I wonder if the international break means we will bring in Thomas and Dewsbury-Hall for this one. Gives them a chance to play and quarantine if necessary before the squad returns. 

 

I hope we do, I’m worried about their development with the lack of minutes. 

Thomas is away with England U20's

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

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Posted
7 minutes ago, davieG said:

From the Club Media Guide - https://resources.lcfc.com/leicesterfc/document/2020/03/11/42923ebd-1095-45ae-b14c-c34938214ea4/Media-Guide-11-March-2020.pdf

 

Academy Manager Ian Cawley
Head of Technical Coaching Dmitri Halajko
Academy Administrator Debbie Collins
Assistant Academy Administrator Evie Grewcock
Senior Professional Development Coach (U23) Steve Beaglehole
Assistant Senior Professional Development Coach (U23) Ben Petty
Physiotherapist (U23) Dan Dagia
Sports Scientist (U23) Perry Nosek
Player Liaison (U18-U23) Leon McSweeney
Loans Manager Guy Branston
Academy Head Physiotherapist Ben Harwood
Academy Physiotherapist Jordan Ward
Academy Physiotherapist (Part-Time) James Stupples
Academy Physiotherapist (U18) Tom Gibson
Head of Academy Sports Science Kevin Paxton
Academy Lead Strength and Conditioning Coach Matt Cheverton
Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach Chris Organ
Lead Academy Sports Scientist Gary Capes
Assistant Sports Scientist Alieen Campbell
Academy Goalkeeping Coach Glyn Thompson
Goalkeeping Coach (Part-Time) Justin Bowley
Goalkeeping Coach (9-16) Adam Skinner
Head of Coach Development Paul Cheney
CAIS Coach Education Sean Rooney
Kit Co-ordinator Sean Rooney
Kit Co-ordinator Henry Crook
Lead Foundation Coach Richard Keeling
Assistant Lead Foundation Coach (5-11) Stuart McClarty
Pre-Academy Lead Coach and Co-ordinator Mark Lyons
Lead Youth Development Coach Matt Goodwin
Assistant Lead Youth Development Coach (12-16) Rodney Ballantine
Youth Development Phase Coach (12-16) Adam Barradell
Youth Development Phase Coach (12-16) Matt Rains
Lead Professional Phase Coach (U18) Trevor Peake
Assistant Professional Development Coach Steve Kirby
Lead Performance Analyst Ryan DeFreitas
Performance Analyst (U23) Paul Mitchell

 

Performance Analyst (U18) Ben Waters
Academy Performance Analyst Luke Dickson
Head of Academy Recruitment Bill Wall
Assistant Recruitment Steve Kinson
Recruitment Analyst Adam Fox
Safeguarding and Welfare Officer Dale Bradshaw
Head of Academy Education Matt Clarke
Academy Tutor (Part-Time) Mark Walker
Academy Minibus Swaran Singh
External Contracts
Psychology Karl Steptoe (Mind to Perform)
Nutrition Matt Westmoreland
FITM Mentor Katrina Bakewell
Club Accommodation Paul and Tracy Connors
House Parents x3

This has some historical info such as:

 

Head of Technical Coaching Dmitri Halajko

 

Dmitri left to go to West Ham about a year ago.

 

Likewise Trevor Peake has retired as U18's manager and we have promoted from within i believe?

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davieG

davieG

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

This has some historical info such as:

 

Head of Technical Coaching Dmitri Halajko

 

Dmitri left to go to West Ham about a year ago.

 

Likewise Trevor Peake has retired as U18's manager and we have promoted from within i believe?

Yeah it's weird because it says it's date March 2020.

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davieG

davieG

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

If I was a millionaire, I wouldn't pay a tenner to watch that match on TV and I'm guessing not many others will either. 2 or 3 quid maybe.

Aye you'd have thought they could probably push towards a 1000 LCFC fans .paying £2 = £2000 but I'd be surprised if the got more than 25 paying £10 = £250

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