We’ll never sign a Mahrez or Vardy again.

[Nalis]

An interesting thread about a unique topic and some couldnt resist turning into an anti Rodgers thread.

 

Wish I was surprised.

[HighPeakFox]

3 minutes ago, lcfc old boy said:

unbelievable post

Which one, I found a few to gawp at in disbelief.

[ealingfox]

28 minutes ago, Nalis said:

An interesting thread about a unique topic and some couldnt resist turning into an anti Rodgers thread.

 

Wish I was surprised.

.

Edited 22 August 2020 by ealingfox

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, fleckneymike said:

This isn’t a doom mongering post more one of practicalities. People frequently refer to our amazing scouting and ability to sign and sell on stars and cite Mahrez, Kante and Vardy as examples of our success. However, with the exception of Kante who is the freakish of all outliers, we’ll never sign players like them again. Not because they don’t exist but because we can’t afford to look at them. 
 

Kante, as a signing, was a complete freak. We signed an elite level player at their peak who for some reason wasn’t at an elite level club. The player who joined was the finished article and the player we sold was too. He began playing at world class levels and left playing the same way. It was easy to slot him into a premier league side and have him contribute immediately. 
 

Mahrez and Vardy were completely different. They both took time to settle, grow and adapt. There is no way the Vardy and Mahrez’s we signed would get anywhere near this team not be given the time to grow and that’s why recruitment is suddenly so hard to do. If both players had been flops we’d have not really noticed, their fees were such that they reflected their low risk status. Subsequent moves into the transfer market have shown that we, like everyone else, are struggling to find players just below the level of Mahrez and Vardy who might one day improve. That’s why getting to and staying at this level is so hard. We’re no longer looking for those sort of players because we don’t have the time to nurture them. 

Good points but each era,each generation,for,Club squads,and leagues have their Player moments....

Though I could name more...I'll just name some LCFC game changers....Rowley,D.Gibson,G.Cross,Mclintock,Glover,Weller,Worthington,Parker,

and there has been others...Our title win just put that sealing stamp on Players careers.....If we had been a L'pool,Manutd,Arsenal those same players,would

have been marked then debated around Local Pub tables....Those Top clubs also have their own Vardy Mahrez stories....

Vardy,Mahrez,Huth,Morgan,Kante...are just our very own special story....It went for us,we became exceptions because we were "nobodies" at 5000/1 right up to the very last games..

Edited 22 August 2020 by fuchsntf

[justfoxes]

2 hours ago, fleckneymike said:

This isn’t a doom mongering post more one of practicalities. People frequently refer to our amazing scouting and ability to sign and sell on stars and cite Mahrez, Kante and Vardy as examples of our success. However, with the exception of Kante who is the freakish of all outliers, we’ll never sign players like them again. Not because they don’t exist but because we can’t afford to look at them. 
 

Kante, as a signing, was a complete freak. We signed an elite level player at their peak who for some reason wasn’t at an elite level club. The player who joined was the finished article and the player we sold was too. He began playing at world class levels and left playing the same way. It was easy to slot him into a premier league side and have him contribute immediately. 
 

Mahrez and Vardy were completely different. They both took time to settle, grow and adapt. There is no way the Vardy and Mahrez’s we signed would get anywhere near this team not be given the time to grow and that’s why recruitment is suddenly so hard to do. If both players had been flops we’d have not really noticed, their fees were such that they reflected their low risk status. Subsequent moves into the transfer market have shown that we, like everyone else, are struggling to find players just below the level of Mahrez and Vardy who might one day improve. That’s why getting to and staying at this level is so hard. We’re no longer looking for those sort of players because we don’t have the time to nurture them. 

Never Say Never !!

[Fox92]

59 minutes ago, Nalis said:

An interesting thread about a unique topic and some couldnt resist turning into an anti Rodgers thread.

 

Wish I was surprised.

I think worrying about signings is valid given this topic is about signing players.

[Guest SO1]

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

That's my worry. I've seen Congerton in interviews say before "we [I guess, him and Rodgers] look for players who have something to prove" and that worry's me. His signings at Liverpool were shocking given the size of the club and who he could potentially attract.

But that the club was unwilling to pay for. Rodgers job was to dump wages and lower costs. Liverpool were skint after not being in the Champions League for a number of years. Have to admit though signing Sturridge and Coutinho in the first winter window was a master stroke.(for nothing practically)

Edited 22 August 2020 by SO1

[Guest SO1]

23 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I think worrying about signings is valid given this topic is about signing players.

That would be true if this was sitting in the Transfer Forum. Where poo is thrown to our hearts content.

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, fleckneymike said:

This isn’t a doom mongering post more one of practicalities. People frequently refer to our amazing scouting and ability to sign and sell on stars and cite Mahrez, Kante and Vardy as examples of our success. However, with the exception of Kante who is the freakish of all outliers, we’ll never sign players like them again. Not because they don’t exist but because we can’t afford to look at them. 
 

Kante, as a signing, was a complete freak. We signed an elite level player at their peak who for some reason wasn’t at an elite level club. The player who joined was the finished article and the player we sold was too. He began playing at world class levels and left playing the same way. It was easy to slot him into a premier league side and have him contribute immediately. 
 

Mahrez and Vardy were completely different. They both took time to settle, grow and adapt. There is no way the Vardy and Mahrez’s we signed would get anywhere near this team not be given the time to grow and that’s why recruitment is suddenly so hard to do. If both players had been flops we’d have not really noticed, their fees were such that they reflected their low risk status. Subsequent moves into the transfer market have shown that we, like everyone else, are struggling to find players just below the level of Mahrez and Vardy who might one day improve. That’s why getting to and staying at this level is so hard. We’re no longer looking for those sort of players because we don’t have the time to nurture them. 

Why and how do you come up with this statement.....We have Nacho,Justin,Soyu,  >Maybe Benkovic<, we tried with Kaputska & Kramaric

Add Chilwell,Thomas,Barnes,Hirst,Choudhury from within..  Not only Leicester but other clubs, are allowing time

for All of their Investments either  Budget & their own big buys.....Impact from some might take longer...Gray/Nacho...

where & when did we suddenly stop..??

[KingsX]

I think OHL will support our club’s ability to keep signing and developing talent that is not ready to perform consistently at the PL level.

 

Importantly, it will also help provide an avenue to get unproven foreign youngsters in the fold, in a post-Brexit world where they will not be easily brought into the UK.  They can remain under a coaching umbrella which meets LCFC standards and teaches a similar brand of football.

 

A balancing act for sure, to keep their interests as a Belgian first division club first, yet in a club as well resourced and managed as ours, it should work to the benefit of both clubs.

Edited 22 August 2020 by KingsX

[Stadt]

I think how (relatively) high profile we are means we can’t sign players for that price anymore. Diabate cost 4x what Mahrez did because any team in the world can have PL teams over a barrel because they’re cognisant of how wealthy they are.  If we scouted a 23 (or was he 24) year old Mahrez at Le Havre now, we’d still be interested and most likely sign him. The fee would be 10x higher though. 
 

As for giving him a chance - he’d have to break into the side but he’d get plenty of opportunity in cups and as a sub. Ultimately, he’d break through because the cream almost always rises to the top. 
 

You can still find value though and recruitment is arguably the most important factor in a club’s success (Guardiola has said similar in the past), Klopp is a superb coach but it’s their recruitment being spot on that’s turned them into a force. They signed probably the best LB in the world for £8m or something daft. They have one of the best, if not the best front 3 on the planet and their cumulative transfer cost was less than £100m, we spent the same amount on Slimani and Perez as they did on Firmino and Salah. 
 

Liverpool’s recruitment is good because their DoF came through their ranks as an analyst, they’ve got in doctors of physics and created research positions to create the most effective analytics department in football. The postive news for us is that Malden Sormaz is outstanding in this regard, the bad news is that we’ve got a manager and a head of recruitment that have, all things considered, a poor record in recruitment.

[KingsX]

25 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Liverpool’s recruitment is good because their DoF came through their ranks as an analyst, they’ve got in doctors of physics and created research positions to create the most effective analytics department in football. The postive news for us is that Malden Sormaz is outstanding in this regard, the bad news is that we’ve got a manager and a head of recruitment that have, all things considered, a poor record in recruitment.

 

At the top level, pretty much all clubs have the data and analytic resources to succeed.  What is determining success and failure in recruitment today is  

   (a) how well the decision makers, scouting eyeballs and analytic brains are integrated, and

   (b) who makes the final decisions and who are they listening to?

 

Arsenal (under Edu), Man U (Woodward) and Barca (Bartomeu) are the poster kids for getting these basic things utterly wrong.  Arsenal are now so deep in the ditch, they just fired many of their scouts and analysts.  And lo and behold, these three are the most shocking underperformers in world football.  If Barca and Man U simply got (a) and (b) right, they would be on top again.

 

(Based purely on her track record) I don’t think Susan Whelan will hand the reins to a Congerton/Rodgers axis of incompetence.  I think/hope she will ensure coaching, scouting and data continually work together …  listen to every voice … and work with Rudkin to make the final decisions.

 

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, fleckneymike said:

This isn’t a doom mongering post more one of practicalities. People frequently refer to our amazing scouting and ability to sign and sell on stars and cite Mahrez, Kante and Vardy as examples of our success. However, with the exception of Kante who is the freakish of all outliers, we’ll never sign players like them again. Not because they don’t exist but because we can’t afford to look at them. 
 

Kante, as a signing, was a complete freak. We signed an elite level player at their peak who for some reason wasn’t at an elite level club. The player who joined was the finished article and the player we sold was too. He began playing at world class levels and left playing the same way. It was easy to slot him into a premier league side and have him contribute immediately. 
 

Mahrez and Vardy were completely different. They both took time to settle, grow and adapt. There is no way the Vardy and Mahrez’s we signed would get anywhere near this team not be given the time to grow and that’s why recruitment is suddenly so hard to do. If both players had been flops we’d have not really noticed, their fees were such that they reflected their low risk status. Subsequent moves into the transfer market have shown that we, like everyone else, are struggling to find players just below the level of Mahrez and Vardy who might one day improve. That’s why getting to and staying at this level is so hard. We’re no longer looking for those sort of players because we don’t have the time to nurture them. 

...why not, we have built an outstanding  training ground, all we have to do is use it!!!

  We picked up Mahrez from Ligue 2, prior to that he was honing is skills playing street football. Perhaps we need to take a closer look at what is going on in that environment in order for us to gain a potential advantage.

  When Wenger came to Arsenal, he scouted in Africa where gems were there to be collected and other teams had not caught on to this. Subsequently teams have caught up and scouting has become even more technical and competitive.

  There are exceptionally skillful players involved in street football and the exponents have a great deal of mental toughness as the art is to outdo your opponents with flair and to humiliate the opposing team.

  The fact that you do not believe we have the time to nurture talent is perhaps an indicator that people are not scouting in the right areas or we need to change our mindset in the way we seek to view or use young talent.

[ALC Fox]

Relative to where we are, we may well do.

 

Instead of nicking two players from the National League and Ligue 2, the equivalent could be signing a late developer from the Eredivisie or a promising young talent from Brazil, for example.

[murphy]

I don't really understand op's logic.  Perhaps I'm missing something but we sign players that were not the finished article all the time, most recently Justin, Benkovic, Soyuncu, Diabate...  Gray was signed as a prospect too, so why wouldn't we be buying scouted players from lower leagues with a view to the future?  It makes perfect sense.

 

 

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

I don't really understand op's logic.  Perhaps I'm missing something but we sign players that were not the finished article all the time, most recently Justin, Benkovic, Soyuncu, Diabate...  Gray was signed as a prospect too, so why wouldn't we be buying scouted players from lower leagues with a view to the future?  It makes perfect sense.

 

 

Let me explain - it's panic, dressed up as a point of view.

[l444ry]

8 hours ago, Fox92 said:

That's my worry. I've seen Congerton in interviews say before "we [I guess, him and Rodgers] look for players who have something to prove" and that worry's me. His signings at Liverpool were shocking given the size of the club and who he could potentially attract.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11651960/brendan-rodgers-on-time-at-liverpool-getting-the-best-from-jamie-vardy-and-celtic-exit

[Fox92]

10 minutes ago, l444ry said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11651960/brendan-rodgers-on-time-at-liverpool-getting-the-best-from-jamie-vardy-and-celtic-exit

?

 

Confirms what I knew. Losing Suarez was the issue because he's one of the best players in the World, one of the best of this era. Sturridge was a good signing because he scored loads alongside Suarez. Coutinho was a good signing who Klopp has obviously profited from. The difference is Klopp has bought quality with the Coutinho money where as Rodgers didn't with the Suarez money... Rickie Lambert, Lallana, Lovren, Can, Markovic, Origi, Moreno, Balotelli.

 

Which sorts of backs up my original point. Worrying about the level of player we'll bring in. That said, we haven't signed anyone this summer yet so I can't knock something that hasn't happend.

[Molson Canadian]

 

[l444ry]

19 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

?

 

Confirms what I knew. Losing Suarez was the issue because he's one of the best players in the World, one of the best of this era. Sturridge was a good signing because he scored loads alongside Suarez. Coutinho was a good signing who Klopp has obviously profited from. The difference is Klopp has bought quality with the Coutinho money where as Rodgers didn't with the Suarez money... Rickie Lambert, Lallana, Lovren, Can, Markovic, Origi, Moreno, Balotelli.

 

Which sorts of backs up my original point. Worrying about the level of player we'll bring in. That said, we haven't signed anyone this summer yet so I can't knock something that hasn't happend.

All about opinions but don't forget Milner, Gomez and Firmino were Rodgers signings and Origi is a Liverpool legend. Anyway, sod Liverpool.

[SilverFox]

We will.  It won’t be overnight.  The structure of the club is changing.  Elite facilities and a larger ground.  We are going to keep building a profile and fan base and with the support of our owners there is no reason why we can’t kick on.  I’m sure Man City’s fans never thought they would amount to much when Dickov was firing them out of league 1.

[Mickyblueeyes]

I get your post (to the OP) and in a way agree. However, I think because we have moved up, a “bargain” wonder signing is now seen as more costly then what it was back in the championship. Take Soy for example. Class player, good enough to move up to the next level and has everything you want in a modern day CB. I think he cost us £18m. In modern times for a premier league club, that’s relatively low. However, in the championship, an £18m would be our main man. Same with Ndidi, £15m, relatively low (For the prem)but has world class ability. 

 

We’ll find hidden gems - they just won’t cost £400k.

[shailen]

I agree with the OP. These are two world class players who imo were the main two reasons we won the league and whilst Kante was amazing, Mahrez and Vardy were the ones scoring goals and that's the hardest thing in football. 

 

I don't actually think it's a case of these players not being out there, I think they are but it's not a risk we would take anymore with our transfer policy and we're now going to spend on proven players given our profile. In fact if we were where we are now, 6 years ago I'd almost guarantee we don't take a risk on Vardy and Mahrez. It's not even a case of these players not being on our radar but the fact that they need to prove themselves more before we take the risk. 

[The whole world smiles]

It's all well and good calling the club out for a perceived lack of patience with signings but us the fans are even worse. 

 

People are going balistic over in the transfer forum because we are linked with jamal Lewis a 22 year old proven Premier league player and international. Imagine the fury if we were linked with a 25 year old from non league or a complete nobody from the French 2nd division who failed a trial at St Mirren. 

[fleckneymike]

23 minutes ago, shailen said:

I agree with the OP. These are two world class players who imo were the main two reasons we won the league and whilst Kante was amazing, Mahrez and Vardy were the ones scoring goals and that's the hardest thing in football. 

 

I don't actually think it's a case of these players not being out there, I think they are but it's not a risk we would take anymore with our transfer policy and we're now going to spend on proven players given our profile. In fact if we were where we are now, 6 years ago I'd almost guarantee we don't take a risk on Vardy and Mahrez. It's not even a case of these players not being on our radar but the fact that they need to prove themselves more before we take the risk. 

At least one person got it. Thanks.