On Loan 2020/21

[Lesta2014]

2 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

He has been told he doesn't figure in the plans and if the right offer comes in he can leave.

 

leicester still retain a 1 year option for next season so if they don't get the right offer, he will presumably go out on loan again next season

If he doesn’t feature in our plans why would we retain him for another year when money is tight?

[Foxy-Lady]

2 hours ago, Lesta2014 said:

If he doesn’t feature in our plans why would we retain him for another year when money is tight?

Because he is 22 years old and has shown he is capable of playing at championship level so why would they let him leave on a free transfer?   

 

Its just a way of ensuring they don't have to let him go for nothing and if clubs want him for next season, they will have to pay for him.....or wait another year until he is available for free in June'22 

 

Its pretty standard practice in contract negotiations to add an extra year option in the clubs favour

 

(PS  if he goes out on loan next season, the loan club will presumably be paying most of his wages and a loan fee so it wont have much impact on LCFCs finances...)

[Aus Fox]

9 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

There were better players than him who didn't get selected at England age group levels for 'whatever reasons'......and i'd be interested to know how many of those goals were penalties....and how many were scored against Top class opposition?

 

Always a big fanfare around George Hirst which never seemed deserved IMHO.......decent lad who works hard with a decent turn of pace and good at holding the ball up......but i always wondered if he would have got where he wasn't as well connected as he is...?!?

To be fair to Hirst, he looked a great prospect in the Toulon Tournament a few years back where he played alongside this young lad called Harvey Barnes.

I think Hirst was top scorer in that tournament and was named in the team of the tournament. I only watched it to see how young Harvey and Moore got on and I came away thinking of that squad Hirst was most likely to make it as a top pro. Brooks was also very good as I recall.

[An Sionnach]

Players we have loaned out who have returned to be major parts of the team King, Chilwell and Barnes. Pretty poor results for ten years or more .Does it work? For god's sake don't do it to Thomas.

[Foxy-Lady]

1 hour ago, An Sionnach said:

Players we have loaned out who have returned to be major parts of the team King, Chilwell and Barnes. Pretty poor results for ten years or more .Does it work? For god's sake don't do it to Thomas.

fair point over the last 10 years but In fairness, the loan programme has definitely improved in recent years.

Seems to be a lot better thought out now in terms of suitability of opportunity and player development/experience which seems to be paying better dividends in recent years as is proven by Barnes & Chilwell....and more recently KDH (& Iversen?).

Sticking decent players in the U23s for 4 years just so we could win a trophy just stifled their potential and was never likely to work in terms of their development.....thankfully we appear to have realised that now!

 

If they have the potential, provide them with a suitable challenge and let them learn from it. 

[TJB-fox]

2 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

Players we have loaned out who have returned to be major parts of the team King, Chilwell and Barnes. Pretty poor results for ten years or more .Does it work? For god's sake don't do it to Thomas.

When you look at what our academy has actually produced it’s nowhere near as bad as people make out. Chilwell and schlupp alone yielded the club 65million (ish) and we have choudhury, Barnes, Thomas playing regularly in the current squad. Must be better than most prem academies 

[An Sionnach]

4 minutes ago, TJB-fox said:

When you look at what our academy has actually produced it’s nowhere near as bad as people make out. Chilwell and schlupp alone yielded the club 65million (ish) and we have choudhury, Barnes, Thomas playing regularly in the current squad. Must be better than most prem academies 

Its not so much the academy , its the loan system. Does it improve or damage players. Chilwell and Barnes got better by playing against top players in the premiership. Thomas will almost certainly do the same.

Edited 7 April 2021 by An Sionnach

[TJB-fox]

Just now, An Sionnach said:

Its not so much the academy , its the loan system. Does it improve or damage players. Chilwell and Barnes got better by playing against top players in the premiership.

I feel like they are exceptional examples though to be fair. Both are quality 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, TJB-fox said:

I feel like they are exceptional examples though to be fair. Both are quality 

Also, Barnes very obviously benefited from his three successful loan spells and Chilwell is on record saying his loan at Huddersfield was an important part of his development

[An Sionnach]

5 minutes ago, Guest said:

Also, Barnes very obviously benefited from his three successful loan spells and Chilwell is on record saying his loan at Huddersfield was an important part of his development

Harvey initially took a lot of stick on this forum when he returned from WBA . The sheer necessity to up his game in the premiership has made him the player we now see.

[Guest]

Just now, An Sionnach said:

Harvey initially took a lot of stick on this forum when he returned from WBA . The sheer necessity to up his game in the premiership has made him the player we now see.

Every player has at some point taken a lot of stick on this forum. I don't think you could reasonably argue that his loan spells didn't have a positive impact on his development

[moore_94]

25 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Its not so much the academy , its the loan system. Does it improve or damage players. Chilwell and Barnes got better by playing against top players in the premiership. Thomas will almost certainly do the same.

Dewsbury-Hall seems to have benefited massively from his loans to Blackpool and Luton, Sowah wouldn’t even have a chance of playing for us if he hadn’t been sent on loan to Leuven, Iversens loan path seems to have benefited him with how highly regarded he is by the club and also by teams that have tried to take him on loan/buy him

 

Out on loan getting regular first team experience is much better than being stuck in our under 23s getting the odd cup appearance if they are lucky

 

The club is in a position now where we can’t take as much risk trying youngsters in premier league games whilst trying to fight for top 4, getting them out on loan playing regularly is the best choice for them to develop and give themselves a chance of playing for us and getting a move elsewhere

Edited 7 April 2021 by moore_94

[The_Rorab]

2 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

Players we have loaned out who have returned to be major parts of the team King, Chilwell and Barnes. Pretty poor results for ten years or more .Does it work? For god's sake don't do it to Thomas.

Sorry what?

 

Which players have progressed to the level required to play regular first team football without having at least one loan spell to play consistent league football and show they have something about them?

 

Harvey progressed from MK Dons to Barnsley to West Brom to our first team progressing through each loan spell, Hamza had 2 spells at Burton, Chilwell went to Huddersfield and proved himself to be a capable player, even Schlupp at Brentford and Liam Moore at Bradford a while back.

 

Sure, not every loan is the correct move, but I'd bet money that loaning out Thomas to spend a season in the Championship would do a lot for his development. Albeit as possibly our 2nd best left back maybe we need him more than we can afford to loan him out at present and he does seem to be competent already enough to play second choice, but I can't understand why you would deride the loan system when it has clearly shown to be very useful in developing our younger players whereas I can't even name a player to come through our academy and play regularly for us who hasn't had some sort of loan spell. 

[An Sionnach]

Most of our loanees seem to be in their twenties , do they really need to be playing in struggling championship teams. From what I have seen of Dewsbury- Hall he is plenty good enough to play premiership football and with Praets injury and Tielemans  heavy workload ,we could have used him this season . 

[Raw Dykes]

17 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Most of our loanees seem to be in their twenties , do they really need to be playing in struggling championship teams. From what I have seen of Dewsbury- Hall he is plenty good enough to play premiership football and with Praets injury and Tielemans  heavy workload ,we could have used him this season . 

Would Brendan have trusted KDH enough to put him in the first team without seeing how well he's done in the Championship, though?

[The_Rorab]

24 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Most of our loanees seem to be in their twenties , do they really need to be playing in struggling championship teams. From what I have seen of Dewsbury- Hall he is plenty good enough to play premiership football and with Praets injury and Tielemans  heavy workload ,we could have used him this season . 

And how would you know KDH is plenty good enough to play in the Prem without his stellar loan spell for Luton?

[An Sionnach]

Well you have to take a chance sometimes , an experienced manager like Rodgers would know a players capabilities by the time he reaches 22. I would suggest that giving Dewsbury - Hall his support could save the club a lot of money.

[Jimmy]

4 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

Players we have loaned out who have returned to be major parts of the team King, Chilwell and Barnes. Pretty poor results for ten years or more .Does it work? For god's sake don't do it to Thomas.

Andy King was never loaned out, he got into the squad at 17 and stayed their until he could get into the team then had a couple of loan moves

Edited 7 April 2021 by Jimmy

[Lambert09]

41 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Well you have to take a chance sometimes , an experienced manager like Rodgers would know a players capabilities by the time he reaches 22. I would suggest that giving Dewsbury - Hall his support could save the club a lot of money.

Football is more than just ‘capabilities’ though.

 

how do they react to pressure. How do they react to someone trying to get under their skin in a game. The premier league is another world to under 23s. Using a loan to get a player accustomed to first team football has always been a success. All of the examples you have given would have bombed if they had gone straight into the first team. It prepares you mentally and allows you to make your mistakes somewhere else 

 

[Lichfieldfox.]

I remember us having two loanees who looked a bit lightweight and didn't impress........turned out to be decent players did Harry Kate and Jessie Lingard.

[An Sionnach]

Alexander- Arnold was never loaned and playing in the C.L. at 19 . Liverpool are one club that takes a chance on youth even in important matches. 

[Corky]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

Andy King was never loaned out, he got into the squad at 17 and stayed their until he could get into the team then had a couple of loan moves

Yeah, I thought he stayed with us throughout his early career, should've played more before League One then was involved in the first team for the next decade.

[moore_94]

1 hour ago, An Sionnach said:

Alexander- Arnold was never loaned and playing in the C.L. at 19 . Liverpool are one club that takes a chance on youth even in important matches. 

Pretty much only got a good chance with Liverpool because Clyne got a long term injury, otherwise he would have been back up to him and wouldn’t have got the chances and been in the position he is today

 

A few younger players have made quite a few appearances for them this season but yet again only due to their injury issues

Edited 7 April 2021 by moore_94

[An Sionnach]

Did throwing A.A. in at the deep end benefit him more than twelve months at Preston though. Luke Thomas has had a similar experience and is quite likely to play ten plus matches next season against high class players and with high class players. Surely that will steepen his learning curve.

[moore_94]

16 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Did throwing A.A. in at the deep end benefit him more than twelve months at Preston though. Luke Thomas has had a similar experience and is quite likely to play ten plus matches next season against high class players and with high class players. Surely that will steepen his learning curve.

Luke Thomas only got his chance last season because we had injury issues and he was basically fast tracked into the first team, probably wouldn’t have played as many games as he has this season without the injury issues we have had

 

You can’t rely on that scenario occurring every season to allow youth players a chance otherwise they would just be stuck hanging around the under 23s, better for them to go out on loan playing first team football week in week out rather than hoping someone gets injured so they can play a couple of games

Edited 7 April 2021 by moore_94