US Presidential Election 2020

[leicsmac]

54 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Hopefully he drifts a bit more.

 

That could be important, I imagine, given his efforts to suppress the vote and delegitimize postal voting, pending a potential move to use his likely 6-3 Supreme Court majority to have any defeat declared invalid?

 

I assume that a narrow margin of defeat (IF he loses) would make it much easier for him to do that. Do you have any idea how likely the Supreme Court is to do his bidding under that scenario - or if Biden wins big?

I presume the chances of him getting away with it - either at the Supreme Court or before the court of public opinion - are much lower if everyone apart from his devoted following is clear that he lost badly....

 

Astonishing (and worrying) times when it seems distinctly possible that US democracy itself is in peril - not to mention potential bloodshed on the streets to dwarf anything that's already occurred....perhaps even the deployment of US troops in the USA? 

If the margin is small enough that Trump leads through in person voting on election night,I would say it is a high probability that he will try to use the courts up to the Supreme Court in order to delegitimise the postal ballots and win that way. A decisive defeat so thorough that it's clear he lost in election day too would make that much harder to do and I think that would probably be the end of the line, so I reckon you're on the money with your assumptions.

 

However, I still think that whatever the result, there is going to be serious unrest afterwards. A convincing win for Biden would simply be the path of least unrest, but there certainly still would be some. A narrow win for either party could result in some of the dire consequences you mention, I sadly concur.

 

26 minutes ago, iniesta said:

the debates are going to be a disaster for sleepy Joe - he is confused and barely coherent 

 

 

The debates aren't going to mean much IMO when this whole thing is a direct referendum on Trump and the vast majority of people have made up their minds already, and it's down to how much of the vote gets out and how much is suppressed, if any.

[Alf Bentley]

32 minutes ago, iniesta said:

the debates are going to be a disaster for sleepy Joe - he is confused and barely coherent 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing, Don. Do you reckon he should take a drug test? 

[Jon the Hat]

On 25/09/2020 at 08:35, That_Dude said:

The orange blob already set the stage for memorable violence after the elections, should he unlikely lose.

 

He sabotaged the USPS, constantly cried foul on the postal ballots, relentlessly questioned the integrity of the electoral process and his die-hard supporters thoroughly lapped it up. Be certain that these nutjobs won't stay quiet if Biden wins. On the other side, I don't know if the Biden supporters will take a defeat kindly.

 

The latter ain't exactly a great opponent either and I can't believe that the Democrats couldn't find a more suitable candidate. The bar is set so low, yet there's a real chance that Trump will be re-elected, even after his disastrous Presidency.

 

Any other President would've been politically dead and buried and removed from the office, if they did just the 100th of what Trump does or says, yet nothing seems to stick to him. His brain-dead base is exactly like him, completely fanatical and nothing will convince them otherwise, to the contrary.

 

He can't do any wrong. Any criticism fake news from the main-stream media who are allied to the child-molesting, satanist/communist/veganist evil forces who unleashed a fake virus upon to impose their new world order and destroy Murica's values.

 

The only question is how much of these retards are left and my guess is many.

Wow.  I mean Trump has ruffled a lot of feathers, but if you think his only voters are brain dead retards you are going to be surprised again in November.

[Detroit Blues]

I think the more substantial news from that New York Times piece is that Trump is personally on the hook for 421M USD of debt, with most of it due back in the next 4 years. How could anyone trust him to have the country's best interest in mind, when he needs to come up with that much money over the next 4 years.

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Wow.  I mean Trump has ruffled a lot of feathers, but if you think his only voters are brain dead retards you are going to be surprised again in November.

Well, it's any of what was said in that post about Trump's deeds not true?

 

But it is right, his supporter base certainly isn't all dumb. Some of them are very smart indeed, and revel in exerting power over people they deem "lesser". And because they're smart, they're pretty good at it too.

[James.]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Well, it's any of what was said in that post about Trump's deeds not true?

 

But it is right, his supporter base certainly isn't all dumb. Some of them are very smart indeed, and revel in exerting power over people they deem "lesser". And because they're smart, they're pretty good at it too.

And between the dumb and very smart ones there are swathes of normal people too, an oversight which seemed very costly in 2016. I have 2 colleagues who work for me who are based in Florida. They are young, intelligent, family-oriented rational people. They both voted for Trump and I suspect will do so again this time.

[KFS]

Word on the street from a number of my colleagues up here on the east coast is that they did vote Trump but have changed their minds. East coast generally isn’t the battle ground though, so that’s not much to go by. Just hope enough have turned on him but worryingly it doesn’t look that way. Crazy how that’s even the case given all he’s done over the last year especially. The man is a moron.

[Leicester_Loyal]

5 minutes ago, James. said:

And between the dumb and very smart ones there are swathes of normal people too, an oversight which seemed very costly in 2016. I have 2 colleagues who work for me who are based in Florida. They are young, intelligent, family-oriented rational people. They both voted for Trump and I suspect will do so again this time.

Spot on.

 

The notion that you're either very stupid or very smart to vote for Trump is quite frankly ridiculous. You win elections by appealing to the average man/woman, we all know that.

[leicsmac]

24 minutes ago, James. said:

And between the dumb and very smart ones there are swathes of normal people too, an oversight which seemed very costly in 2016. I have 2 colleagues who work for me who are based in Florida. They are young, intelligent, family-oriented rational people. They both voted for Trump and I suspect will do so again this time.

For fiscal and/or social self-interest, then?

 

Now that there has been 4 years of Trump governance, no one can be ignorant of the man or his policy decisions as perhaps some were in 2016 - I'm curious as to another reason why "young, intelligent family-oriented rational people" would want 4 more years of that than self-interest.

 

18 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Spot on.

 

The notion that you're either very stupid or very smart to vote for Trump is quite frankly ridiculous. You win elections by appealing to the average man/woman, we all know that.

In 2016 that was indeed the case as Trump was a less known quantity politically. Safe to say that's no longer the case, and the appeal among the average man/woman might be why his poll numbers aren't what they were at this point four years ago.

[Captain...]

I know of a few people who have always voted Dem but just couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hilary so voted Trump. 

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

I wonder what impact, if any, this will have on the campaign/debates/outcome: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54319948

 

"Donald Trump paid just $750 (£587) in federal income tax both in 2016, the year he ran for the US presidency, and in his first year in the White House, the New York Times says.

The newspaper - which says it obtained tax records for Mr Trump and his companies over two decades - also says that he paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years.

The records reveal "chronic losses and years of tax avoidance", it says.

Mr Trump called the report "fake news".

Non-paywalled version of the NYT article:

 

https://archive.is/2STEO

[urban.spaceman]

There's literally a tweet for everything.

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

51 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

In 2016 that was indeed the case as Trump was a less known quantity politically. Safe to say that's no longer the case, and the appeal among the average man/woman might be why his poll numbers aren't what they were at this point four years ago.

But that's because then the average man/woman has moved over to Biden? You don't win elections by only appealing to the 'dumb' or the 'very smart'. The average man or woman wins you elections.

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

But that's because then the average man/woman has moved over to Biden? You don't win elections by only appealing to the 'dumb' or the 'very smart'. The average man or woman wins you elections.

Yep, that's rather my point. The "average people" who thought he would be worth a go four years ago aren't nearly so great in number now as they were then. Of course Trump knows how to win as well as you do, but by and large the numbers are saying that they're not buying what he's selling - at least for now.

[Carl the Llama]

7 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

I wonder what impact, if any, this will have on the campaign/debates/outcome: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54319948

 

"Donald Trump paid just $750 (£587) in federal income tax both in 2016, the year he ran for the US presidency, and in his first year in the White House, the New York Times says.

The newspaper - which says it obtained tax records for Mr Trump and his companies over two decades - also says that he paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years.

The records reveal "chronic losses and years of tax avoidance", it says.

Mr Trump called the report "fake news".

Does it count as news if every observer with more than a pea in their skull had already concluded his taxes were dodgy from his antics over sharing his returns? I feel like anybody who this is 'news' to has likely already decided not to digest it.

[Alf Bentley]

1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

Does it count as news if every observer with more than a pea in their skull had already concluded his taxes were dodgy from his antics over sharing his returns? I feel like anybody who this is 'news' to has likely already decided not to digest it.

 

I'm sure most people had already decided what to think about his taxes one way or the other, but I presume there is a small minority of waverers who might be influenced.

It might also take attention away from campaign issues. 

 

Of course, it might have no impact whatsoever or might bolster the determination of Trump supporters to turn out and vote, if they see him as picked on by the "fake news mainstream media".

 

I've no idea and was just raising it for debate - or information from those better informed than me.

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, Alf Bentley said:

 

I'm sure most people had already decided what to think about his taxes one way or the other, but I presume there is a small minority of waverers who might be influenced.

It might also take attention away from campaign issues. 

 

Of course, it might have no impact whatsoever or might bolster the determination of Trump supporters to turn out and vote, if they see him as picked on by the "fake news mainstream media".

 

I've no idea and was just raising it for debate - or information from those better informed than me.

It's definitely good to have solid confirmation, I'm just nitpicking because I'm bored I guess  

[That_Dude]

10 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Wow.  I mean Trump has ruffled a lot of feathers, but if you think his only voters are brain dead retards you are going to be surprised again in November.

He's an abject, repulsive and pathetic excuse of a human being.

 

He's intellectually deficient and morally corrupt. He's a racist and a fascist. He's a narcissist, a liar, a sociopath, a coward and a con. He never takes responsibility for any mistake. He doesn't care about his country or his voters, he despises them and doesn't even pretend not to. He never tolerates divergent opinions and thrives on fear, hate and division. He's a degenerate old bag of shite on a power trip, pushing the US constitution to its limits, further dividing the country, making it the world's laughing stock and dragging it down to an abyss of shame and the consequences will be felt long after he's food for worms. He has all the attributes of a dictator in the making, even speaking of a third mandate, and if it weren't for the numerous safeguards in the constitution, he would've already achieved it.

 

All of for everyone to see.

 

But you're right in a way. He's not an anomaly but a symptom of something fundamentally rotten in the US society and its politics. He didn't come to power by accident, the foundations were already laid for his Presidency and the fact that a good chunk of Americans would still vote for him again, despite everything that happened in the last four years, tells me everything I need to know.

Edited 28 September 2020 by That_Dude

[Mark_w]

10 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Wow.  I mean Trump has ruffled a lot of feathers, but if you think his only voters are brain dead retards you are going to be surprised again in November.

I think you may be overestimating the faith your fellow posters have in the intelligence of the US electorate. It's perfectly possible that his only voters are brain dead retards and he'll be re-elected.

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, That_Dude said:

He's an abject, repulsive and pathetic excuse of a human being.

 

He's intellectually deficient and morally corrupt. He's a racist and a fascist. He's a narcissist, a liar, a sociopath, a coward and a con. He never takes responsibility for any mistake. He doesn't care about his country or his voters, he despises them and doesn't even pretend not to. He never tolerates divergent opinions and thrives on fear, hate and division. He's a degenerate old bag of shite on a power trip, pushing the US constitution to its limits, further dividing the country, making it the world's laughing stock and dragging it down to an abyss of shame and the consequences will be felt long after he's food for worms. He has all the attributes of a dictator in the making, even speaking of a third mandate, and if it weren't for the numerous safeguards in the constitution, he would've already achieved it.

 

All of for everyone to see.

 

But you're right in a way. He's not an anomaly but a symptom of something fundamentally rotten in the US society and its politics. He didn't come to power by accident, the foundations were already laid for his Presidency and the fact that a good chunk of Americans would still vote for him again, despite everything that happened in the last four years, tells me everything I need to know.

Get off the fence and tell us how you really feel, man!

[Jattdogg]

12 hours ago, Detroit Blues said:

I think the more substantial news from that New York Times piece is that Trump is personally on the hook for 421M USD of debt, with most of it due back in the next 4 years. How could anyone trust him to have the country's best interest in mind, when he needs to come up with that much money over the next 4 years.

..Putin is his best friend, he wont have to worry about 421 mill...

[leicsmac]

First debate tonight then:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/election-us-2020-54311223

 

However, I stand by what I say in that unless there's a massive, massive gaffe or a massive revelation from either party, the debates themselves won't change the overall picture that much because thanks to social media pretty much everyone knows everything there is to know about the two candidates and their platforms anyway.

[twoleftfeet]

On 28/09/2020 at 12:33, Detroit Blues said:

I think the more substantial news from that New York Times piece is that Trump is personally on the hook for 421M USD of debt, with most of it due back in the next 4 years. How could anyone trust him to have the country's best interest in mind, when he needs to come up with that much money over the next 4 years.

A couple of website suggest that he has a net worth of north of 2.5 billion but who knows. Didn't our own owners not borrow money rather than use their own cash, which may suggest this is the way rich people do business rather than use assets they have they borrow against future earnings to finance capital investments. 

[Detroit Blues]

59 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

A couple of website suggest that he has a net worth of north of 2.5 billion but who knows. Didn't our own owners not borrow money rather than use their own cash, which may suggest this is the way rich people do business rather than use assets they have they borrow against future earnings to finance capital investments. 

Here's a few problematic things about that premise -

 

This money is guaranteed, personally, by Donald Trump. That implies he needs to have a tremendous amount of cash flow to meet those liabilities. Most of his cash flow, as a real estate and hotel magnate, is through commercial office space and travel. Two industries significantly impacted by COV-19. 

 

So the questions all this brings up is this 

Who does he owe the money to? Does he owe them to foreign nations? Do they have leverage on him politically? How would they collect on him, as acting President? 

Is he performing functions, as President, to further his own financial interest because he is under so much pressure to repay. 

 

These are all fair questions to ask, and the American people deserved to know these answers BEFORE he became president. By not releasing his tax returns, he was lying to the American people by omission. He didn't want us to know that he is either, heavily in debt and compromised by the people he owes money to, or that he has plenty of cash flow and he is downplaying his personal tax liability.

 

[KFS]

Worth a read if you’re looking for a new book is ‘The Fifth Risk’. Details the lack of preparedness the Trump administration came into office with and with hindsight reading through it, you see exactly how he’s fvcked so many things up.