Not The Politics Thread.

[Jon the Hat]

16 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

The current government are achieving the unthinkable, in so much as they are largely feckless but when they go, they inflict almost no damage on the Conservative party due to the personally polarising rage about the actors in power, a trick I dare say Johnson was selected to perform.

He was selected to guarantee Brexit, which he did, but then along came Covid which proved him incompetent, and now Ukraine where at least he has been able to apply the skills he does have to some effect.

[Lionator]

5 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

I can understand that view point.  But presently Liz Truss is the most likely to replace Boris.  Liz Truss PM.

A sickening thought. 
 

also it’s best for Labour long term that Johnson is in charge as he is for all intents and purposes a busted flush now. I think they know he’s not going to resign.

[Dahnsouff]

43 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

He was selected to guarantee Brexit, which he did, but then along came Covid which proved him incompetent, and now Ukraine where at least he has been able to apply the skills he does have to some effect.

Don't disagree, its clear, but he was always going to be a disposable leader from the Conservative standpoint.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

Johnson isn't some one man band leading the fight though, he has advisors and ministers that help make decisions. As I said in an earlier post, there will always be a crisis with him in charge you can't just keep kicking the can down the road. I think you massively overstate the wars influence on all this. Ironically as someone who voted brexit to remove European influences on our politics you seem quire haply with events in Europe dictating what we do over here.

 

Part of me would be happy if he stayed, the longer it goes on, the more he destroys the party, but his position is totally untenable. Also let's not forget, its not a matter if he should be booted out, he lied at the dispatch box, that is meant to lead to resignation and it would for anyone else but this shameless, spineless, corrupt clown we have in charge right now.

 

If your football team is fighting relegation you sometimes have to change manager mid-season, regardless of what else is going on. We need someone to come in at least stabilise things, get us to 17th in the table before we look to next season with a long term manager in charge.

A comment on this; i don't actually think this is all that hypocritical as those who voted for Brexit tend to have some overlap with those that think that war, sorry, "defence", is a totally special area of policy more immune from the usual critique anyway.

[Innovindil]

If he doesn't walk he's got to be pushed. 

 

He's broke the laws he came up with ffs. It's a complete joke to everyone who suffered through all this lock down bullshit. 

[Zear0]

Not sure why there's some fear that if Boris goes, Ukraine falls. Our "war effort" is supplying materiel and pretending to take in refugees. Ben Wallace is doing a fine job on the former and if Boris goes then the latter might actually improve. A leadership change would, in my view, make FA difference to the support we're providing Ukraine as this is likely being managed by far more competent people in the FO. 

 

If he's done wrong, and those who can remove him think so, then get him in the bin. It's politics and there's always something important going on. During his term he's had Brexit, COVID-19, Ukraine and a cost of living crisis. Every single one of those would have been used as a justification to not be held to account.

 

Alternatively, acknowledge the situation and say you won't stand at the next election. The irony of keeping him in post to fight Putin when his party is funded by the man is repulsive. He sodding appointed Lebedev, son of a KGB agent against the advice of intelligence services. Putin wants Boris, like he wants Trump, in charge and its beyond the pale forgetting the litany of other actions of his premiership. #Wenger/BorisOut

[Innovindil]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

I can understand that view point.  But presently Liz Truss is the most likely to replace Boris.  Liz Truss PM.

Tories have some 350 odd mps right now. If they can't come up with someone viable out of that to do better than someone literally breaking his own laws then maybe they shouldn't be in power anymore. 

 

Ukraine will carry on with or without Boris, unfortunately. 

[fox_up_north]

The Ukraine situation isn't going away any time soon and could be around for years. The fact is that the PM and Chancellor broke a law that they put in place, during an unprecedented situation. It boils down this: 

 

Do you expect the Prime Minister to be held to higher standards than the average person?

 

Do you think that it is right that the leader of the country continues in his job, after he has lied about his actions to parliament and the public?

 

Are you comfortable with this person representing the interests of 66 million people?

[Daggers]

Johnson does not hand deliver weapons to Ukraine. Johnson is not coordinating Ukraine’s counterattack. What Johnson does is constantly cock up, u-turn, or vacillate. There is nothing about his premiership that couldn’t be improved with a gun, knife, bomb or large rock with Acme stamped on the side.

 

The idea that ‘there’s bigger stuff going on atm’ is risible, it infers there will be quiet times ahead, when the messy business of change can be managed. Absolute cock. He could be replaced by a leftover stag night inflatable sheep and the world would notice benefits within a few hours. You could parachute in any Love Island contestant and the average IQ of the whole cabinet would rise by 50%.

 

For the life of me, I despair at the weakness of the arguments to keep him in place. It’s kind of like some people just aren’t paying attention.

[Dahnsouff]

10 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

The Ukraine situation isn't going away any time soon and could be around for years. The fact is that the PM and Chancellor broke a law that they put in place, during an unprecedented situation. It boils down this: 

 

Do you expect the Prime Minister to be held to higher standards than the average person?

 

Do you think that it is right that the leader of the country continues in his job, after he has lied about his actions to parliament and the public?

 

Are you comfortable with this person representing the interests of 66 million people?

1. No
2. There is a precedent
3. Yes, as he was democractically elected

[ealingfox]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

And wouldn't Putin love us to tear ourselves apart right now.  We are on the edge of something serious kicking off, and while Boris is a **** surrounded by *****, we are not going to help Ukraine by turning inward at this point.  Lets punish him at the next election.

 

Cynically using the suffering of others during a humanitarian crisis as a deflective shield to escape accountability and avoid thinking critically about the team you support is desperately low.

[Dahnsouff]

29 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

Cynically using the suffering of others during a humanitarian crisis as a deflective shield to escape accountability and avoid thinking critically about the team you support is desperately low.

Irony   

[Strokes]

How anyone can continue support him being in power is beyond me.

He set a law that stripped away our freedoms and then broke it himself.

Then lied repeatedly about it. Complete and utter contempt for everything and anyone.

Edited 13 April 2022 by Strokes

[fazzyfox]

They just said on the breakfast news that following the fines issued to Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak they were "inexorably bound together" in this. Just what kind of party was it !

 

[danny.]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yes probably.  She has done a decent job in Ukraine so far.  The months of leadership contest are a worry though.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-cites-truss-error-evidence-west-doesnt-understand-ukraine-conflict-2022-02-11/
 

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19893997.ukraine-crisis-liz-truss-mocked-geography-gaffe-russia/

[LiberalFox]

1 hour ago, Zear0 said:

Not sure why there's some fear that if Boris goes, Ukraine falls. Our "war effort" is supplying materiel and pretending to take in refugees. Ben Wallace is doing a fine job on the former and if Boris goes then the latter might actually improve. A leadership change would, in my view, make FA difference to the support we're providing Ukraine as this is likely being managed by far more competent people in the FO. 

 

If he's done wrong, and those who can remove him think so, then get him in the bin. It's politics and there's always something important going on. During his term he's had Brexit, COVID-19, Ukraine and a cost of living crisis. Every single one of those would have been used as a justification to not be held to account.

 

Alternatively, acknowledge the situation and say you won't stand at the next election. The irony of keeping him in post to fight Putin when his party is funded by the man is repulsive. He sodding appointed Lebedev, son of a KGB agent against the advice of intelligence services. Putin wants Boris, like he wants Trump, in charge and its beyond the pale forgetting the litany of other actions of his premiership. #Wenger/BorisOut

A lot of our response to Ukraine feels like a reaction to what happened in Afghanistan, there are a fair number of ex-forces people in the Conservatives who were ashamed and/or frustrated at how little we were able to do when the US wanted to pull out. I don't think the likes of Johnson or Truss are really worth that much and besides there's no opposition to the work being done in supporting Ukraine. I agree with your post. I can't think of any current Tory I want as PM. I think Starmer would make a better Tory PM than any of them. 

[ealingfox]

10 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Irony   

 

It's not though is it.

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

It's not though is it.

Maybe not, will agree there sure seems to be "no good time" to take the current government to task, and as much as I do not think he should be ejected from office, primarily due to what would come next, I see no clear way to express displeasure against this government. Stuff like Change.Org and other internet lambasting forums are just modern day incarnations of "man shouts at clouds" (For political themes), the only way to illicit change is to actively pursue them via political means.

[Daggers]

 

[weller54]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

Johnson does not hand deliver weapons to Ukraine. Johnson is not coordinating Ukraine’s counterattack. What Johnson does is constantly cock up, u-turn, or vacillate. There is nothing about his premiership that couldn’t be improved with a gun, knife, bomb or large rock with Acme stamped on the side.

 

The idea that ‘there’s bigger stuff going on atm’ is risible, it infers there will be quiet times ahead, when the messy business of change can be managed. Absolute cock. He could be replaced by a leftover stag night inflatable sheep and the world would notice benefits within a few hours. You could parachute in any Love Island contestant and the average IQ of the whole cabinet would rise by 50%.

 

For the life of me, I despair at the weakness of the arguments to keep him in place. It’s kind of like some people just aren’t paying attention.

Ah yeah...but don't forget..

He 'got Brexit done'!!!!!!

😂😂😂😂🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

[Fox in the North]

They broke the ministerial code of conduct, they misled the house (certainly not inadvertently), if they had a shred of decency they would resign. End of.

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, weller54 said:

Ah yeah...but don't forget..

He 'got Brexit done'!!!!!!

😂😂😂😂🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, Fox in the North said:

They broke the ministerial code of conduct, they misled the house (certainly not inadvertently), if they had a shred of decency they would resign. End of.

Tony didn't and he commited the ultimate betrayal and started a war....so........ (Yes he did)

 

(But yeah Boris could if he had a shred of decency...)

[Fox in the North]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

Tony didn't and he commited the ultimate betrayal and started a war....so........ (Yes he did)

 

(But yeah Boris could if he had a shred of decency...)

I appreciate what you’re saying, but I’m not on about history. Just because we didn’t stop Blair doesn’t absolve the current prime minister.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Fox in the North said:

I appreciate what you’re saying, but I’m not on about history. Just because we didn’t stop Blair doesn’t absolve the current prime minister.

No, it absolutely does not and I am not trying to excuse this Government as thats not possible, but we should regard all Governments, past, present and future with an even hand.

 

If Blair had a statue I would tear it down   (Next to Johnsons)