English managers

[ClaphamFox]

The last three Champions League finals have been won by three different German managers. The last English manager to win the top European prize was Joe Fagan in 1984. Why don’t we produce top class managers?

[Matt]

[SemperEadem]

Interestingly there is a lot of talk in German football about a lack of quality younger coaches coming through. 

[Facecloth]

Also if you look at the league, the highest placed English manager (ignoring Ryan Mason as he's only interim and hasn't been in charge long) is down in 11th. There were 8 English manager last season plus Lampard who was sacked, and including Wilder, who was replaced by an Englishman. Not including Lampard as he was sacked quite early, they all finished in the bottom half, and all three relegated teams were managed by Englishmen.

[Koke]

There isn't a simple answer. But it would help if English managers went abroad to gain more knowledge and experience. . That's why I respect Graham Potter and his rise. Can you imagine Dean Smith going to Torino and doing well, then taking a step up to Villarreal and doing sell again etc. No me neither. 

 

Edited 30 May 2021 by Koke

[BenTheFox]

I think we still have a bit of an attitude problem to how we we see football in this country. When you listen to the a lot of English managers, it's all about 'gut' and 'passion' and 'manning up'. This mentality can only get you so far. Football has moved on and you need to be more technically and tactically astute. I would also add that this is not the right way to get the best out of modern footballers who are millionaires in their 20s. In countries like France, Germany and Spain, players are given clear instructions and know what's expected in terms of skill level and football intelligence. 

 

I think we are seeing more modern and progressive English managers, but they have to achieve something significant to be given a top job. 

[SemperEadem]

22 minutes ago, Koke said:

There isn't a simple answer. But it would help if English managers went abroad to gain more knowledge and experience. . That's why I respect Graham Potter and his rise. Can you imagine Dean Smith going to Torino and doing well, then taking a step up to Villarreal and doing sell again etc. No me neither. 

 

Will Brexit make these opportunities harder?

[Raj]

Theres always World Class Arry Redknapp!!!

[Fox92]

Unbelievable to think that prior to Fagan winning it is was won by consecutively by Paisley, Clough and Barton. 

 

Great little period for English managers there. 

[Fox92]

33 minutes ago, Koke said:

There isn't a simple answer. But it would help if English managers went abroad to gain more knowledge and experience. . That's why I respect Graham Potter and his rise. Can you imagine Dean Smith going to Torino and doing well, then taking a step up to Villarreal and doing sell again etc. No me neither. 

 

Dean Smith has done good jobs at Walsall and Brentford, and then Villa of course.

 

It's not as if he's just got the Villa job out of nowhere.

[BenTheFox]

17 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Dean Smith has done good jobs at Walsall and Brentford, and then Villa of course.

 

It's not as if he's just got the Villa job out of nowhere.

I'll give Smith credit. He's worked his way up, got Villa promoted and now has them as a respectable Premier league side. He's generally conducted himself well too. 

Edited 30 May 2021 by BenTheFox

[Fox92]

4 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

I'll give Smith credit. He's worked his way, got Villa promoted and now has them as a respectable Premier league side. He's generally conducted well too. 

Yeah, exactly.

 

People take the piss they spent so much, when they come up, but something needed to happen. He inherited a squad that was aging (players like Alan Hutton and Glen Whelan etc) who needed to go and had players on loan (like Tammy Abraham) that they were never going to keep. They needed players quickly. I think people forget his first season in the PL with Villa was his first full season with them.

 

I don't mind him, he does seem to conduct himself well as you say, and it's great to see a fan managing the club he loves.

Edited 30 May 2021 by Fox92

[RowlattsFox]

People will claim lack of opportunities which to an extent is true, annoys me for example how many championship clubs would rather go down an international manager route. It's difficult to get top jobs in the English game, Only way you do is if you're a club legend but then you don't get time. What has someone like Potter got to do to even be considered? If Klopp, Tuchel and the Leipzig guy get the opportunities they've had if they were trying to breakthrough the English pyramid. I don't think they would have. 

 

Rodgers (British I know) is the nearest thing to one of the European managers. And I think if any future English or British managers have desire to be at the top then they have to file a similar route, learning languages help manage international dressing rooms. Gerrard will probably take over at Liverpool but I can't see where the next potential big manager is coming from. I reckon Lampard will have eyes on England job if Southgate fails. 

[Corky]

1 hour ago, Koke said:

There isn't a simple answer. But it would help if English managers went abroad to gain more knowledge and experience. . That's why I respect Graham Potter and his rise. Can you imagine Dean Smith going to Torino and doing well, then taking a step up to Villarreal and doing sell again etc. No me neither. 

 

Roy Hodgson may not be to everyone's liking but he also went abroad to coach and learn and did well enough from it. As you say, Potter deserves credit for challenging himself in other environments. Even Steve McClaren went abroad and had success.

 

Football is a global game and I'm plenty of clubs would like an English manager and their methods in European countries.

[Koke]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

Dean Smith has done good jobs at Walsall and Brentford, and then Villa of course.

 

It's not as if he's just got the Villa job out of nowhere.

 

I agree. But it would help him if he got a job abroad. Lower end German and Spanish coaches go abroad to enhance their skills. Poch couldn't speak a word of English but went from Espanyol to Southampton. 

 

I can't find any other reasonable explanation as to why English coaches are doing worse than their counterparts in Europe. 

[Fox92]

2 hours ago, Koke said:

 

I agree. But it would help him if he got a job abroad. Lower end German and Spanish coaches go abroad to enhance their skills. Poch couldn't speak a word of English but went from Espanyol to Southampton. 

 

I can't find any other reasonable explanation as to why English coaches are doing worse than their counterparts in Europe. 

I do get where you're coming from. Maybe it's an English thing; so many of us in general just happy to go on holiday and expect locals to speak English. It used to annoy me when people would use Puel's language to criticise him, or take the piss, because at least he bothered to try and speak English. 

 

The English Premier League is so global too, without doubt the most known/watched league in the World, which will be a pull for a lot of foreign managers to come here too.

[SystonFox]

Dyche next CL winner with us in 3 years time. Beating Brendan Rodgers Barcelona in the final 1-0 through a Danny Drinkwater own goal in the 96th minute

[Leicesterpool]

I think the problem is English coaches these days at the top level aren't given a chance, doesn't help now the lot of owners in that so called top six are foreign owned and don't seem to rate the English manager. One interesting debate I could throw in, is that in the womens game is there any english female coach better than any male english coach.

[Scotch]

12 hours ago, Koke said:

There isn't a simple answer. But it would help if English managers went abroad to gain more knowledge and experience. . That's why I respect Graham Potter and his rise. Can you imagine Dean Smith going to Torino and doing well, then taking a step up to Villarreal and doing sell again etc. No me neither. 

 

What Potter done was amazing. Something right out of Football manager. Taking a team in the bottom tier of Swedish football to the europa league and mid table finishes in the top tier. 

[shailen]

The premier league looks to success from other countries as a quick fix, rather than giving time to any of our own, which means they have to work through the leagues to get to the top. It's difficult to get back in from the bottom up and it'll always be seen as taking a chance on coaches like Potter or Howe whereas the top German clubs, for example, would take chances on managers of the equivalent sort of clubs in their leagues. The big 6 want instant success. 

[Dan]

I do have a lot of respect for Graham Potter and think although he's done nothing too amazing with Brighton yet (arguably unlucky but I think next year will be where you can really tell) I've always given him a bit more leeway because he's taken the genuinely difficult route and worked his way up. I think it'd be beneficial for more English coaches and players to at least have a stint or two abroad but I feel that it doesn't happen because there's just no proper incentive. In England you get paid the most money for the least achievement under the least pressure, add to that, it's your country anyway so you'll be more inclined to stick in it. English managers do have a bad record though. Bit of a chicken and egg situation regarding opportunities.

[Ric Flair]

Could have been Lampard but they binned him

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

English clubs and chairman still have this idea that managers need to have been top players - and it simply isn’t the case for lots of reasons.

[RobHawk]

If Brendan left tomorrow, I'd want us to be looking at Steve cooper at Swansea. 

 

Good pedigree with youth, gets the max from his players and did better with an average Swansea side than what potter did on a tight budget too. 

 

I'd be really surprised if he's not in the premier League next season