Learning Other Languages

[shen]

1 minute ago, SecretPro said:

Lots of great stuff on here - thanks!

 

So, for those that do learn other languages, which is the easiest? I must admit I hated French at school because most of it was reading/writing base and the gramatical difference fecking killed it. Maybe I'll cycle around a country with an easier language

English is a great language as you have a foot in both the Germanic and Latin languages. I'd assume German or Dutch would be the easiest to learn for an Englishman. Possibly Swedish or Norwegian due to there being so many Nordic-derived words in your language. You should have a head start here anyway.

[Captain...]

1 minute ago, SecretPro said:

Lots of great stuff on here - thanks!

 

So, for those that do learn other languages, which is the easiest? I must admit I hated French at school because most of it was reading/writing base and the gramatical difference fecking killed it. Maybe I'll cycle around a country with an easier language

I find Spanish to be easy because you say it exactly as you read it, you just need to learn a few pronunciation rules at the start, but every Spanish word is spoken exactly as it is written makes it so much easier to learn and use new words. I feel so sorry for anyone learning English, with read, read, red, reed, any word with ough in it, so many irregulars that you just have to learn the pronunciation of every word. The grammar is more comprehensive but it's largely consistent.

[Sampson]

12 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Lots of great stuff on here - thanks!

 

So, for those that do learn other languages, which is the easiest? I must admit I hated French at school because most of it was reading/writing based and built around words/conversation nobody would actually ever have and the grammatical differences fecking killed it. Maybe I'll cycle around a country with an easier language

The easiest language for English speakers to learn is usually said to be Dutch, closely followed by the Scandinavian trio of Danish, Norwegian and Swedish (which are all about 75% the same as each other and if you learn one, you can suppisedly understand the other 2 as they're so similar). As they're in the same "Germanic" language group as English and the grammar is about 80% the same, a lot of times it's just replacing words and switching the word order a bit. Problem is those are pretty niche languages really.

 

German is obviously also a Germanic language but the grammar is very different so it's a lot more difficult than the other Germanic languages coming from an English speaker.

 

Next easiest will be the romance languages, so French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese. And they obviously have a lot more practical use than Dutch or the Scandinavian languages do.

Edited 16 July 2021 by Sampson

[Captain...]

French is a stupid language:

 

https://youtu.be/S1oa9yYWo9s

[Alf Bentley]

25 minutes ago, Captain... said:

My view on languages is, it is not difficult to learn a language we are all capable of it having learned one. It is just time consuming.

 

Latin languages like French and Spanish are very grammar heavy and if you get the grammar wrong things can make no sense to a native speaker. As a fellow English speaker the concept of verb conjugation is pretty alien. One thing you can do on your own is just buy a grammar book and work through it. It will do bugger all for your fluency and verbal communication but it will give you a good grounding.

 

There are 4 real disciplines in languages, reading, writing, speaking and listening. You need to practice all 4. I've met Spanish people that can read English perfectly but can't speak for shit. Split your focus between all 4. Writing is probably the least useful but it all builds on your language skills.

 

Know your limits, I read somewhere you can only remember 7 new words a day, so don't waste your time trying to remember long lists of words it's not going to work. Just immerse yourself in the basics and practice a little everyday and build on it.

 

Duolingo, grammar books, watching foreign films all help, but you can only get any real fluency by talking to native speakers. Meetup.com will help you find language groups and others have mentioned links to talk to a native speaker 

 

Final bits of advice on speaking. Put on a French accent, if you're speaking French. Don't speak a foreign language in your normal accent, people won't understand you. Putting on an accent helps with the rhythm of speech and pronunciation. It was probably the one single thing that helped me go to the next level with Spanish, I felt stupid and like I was taking the piss, but I got a lot of compliments on my pronunciation and that helped build my confidence. Don't be afraid to make a mistake, some how in Spanish I managed to announce to my language exchange group I had penis's on my feet after walking for 4 days. Blisters - ampollas, penis - una polla. I've never forgotten that word.

 

 

 

The Captain offers good advice here.

 

Lots of listening is clearly vital in improving speech, but reading can also help to a surprising extent - helping you understand others & express yourself, recognising & using words and phrases.

As I work as a translator (Fr/Sp/Pt->Eng), my reading remains very good. But as I rarely get abroad or make an effort to listen/speak my languages, my level for listening, speaking & writing currently ranges from poor to diabolical. Regular practice needed.

 

The "put on a French accent" point is a good one. If you feel a bit awkward about it, maybe think of it as acting - you're no longer you making a fool of yourself, you're acting the role of a French person (or whatever nationality).

 

Amusing story of a dictionary-learned error:

When I was traveling in Latin America, I was crossing the border into Honduras behind an American with little Spanish. When immigration asked him about his plans, he seemed to repeatedly say in Spanish "Honduras, Moscow, United States". The immigration bods were as baffled as me, so I asked him in English what he meant. He said "Honduras - mosca - Estados Unidos; after a few days in Honduras, I'm going to fly to the USA and mosca means "fly". Mosca does indeed mean "fly".....the insect.

[FerrisBueller]

21 minutes ago, shen said:

Kudos for trying and good luck!

Danish is a tough language for most foreigners due to our near impossible pronunciation and disconnect between written and spoken Danish. Well done if you can connect the subtitles to the spoken language in those shows.

 

Language is essential when trying to understand another country's culture. I have been fortunate to grow up in a multilingual and multicultural society and it really eases communication and understanding - and relationship building - when you can switch and adapt. I'm also certain it's helped my mental faculties and ability to recognise patterns beyond language as well.

Thanks man! 

That's the hardest part for me, I'm just about getting there connecting the spoken and written. Plus when it's conversational the words seem to just jumble up in to one long sound, although I don't think that's something someone with a Leicester accent can complain about.

 

It does help that my girlfriend speaks a lot of Danish to me, so I get instant feedback.

 

If you just get rid of those soft d's we'll be fine 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

29 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Lots of great stuff on here - thanks!

 

So, for those that do learn other languages, which is the easiest? I must admit I hated French at school because most of it was reading/writing based and built around words/conversation nobody would actually ever have and the grammatical differences fecking killed it. Maybe I'll cycle around a country with an easier language

Spanish far easier than French. German is a bitch too my the sounds of it.

 

I'd go Spanish or Italian. Don't know much about the likes of Dutch, EE languages and so on but they all seem harder and as for those with a different alphabet - bin!

[Buce]

26 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Lots of great stuff on here - thanks!

 

So, for those that do learn other languages, which is the easiest? I must admit I hated French at school because most of it was reading/writing based and built around words/conversation nobody would actually ever have and the grammatical differences fecking killed it. Maybe I'll cycle around a country with an easier language

 

I've probably spent more time in France than any other country bar the UK and language has never been an issue. The thing is with the French is that they are very proud of their culture and language and take great exception to your first words being, "Parlez-vous Anglais?". However, in my experience, if you try to speak French to them - however poorly you do so - you will get a completely different response.

[SecretPro]

Google says Norwegian is the easiest language, closely followed by Spanish. I'll change my cycle plans.

[Carl the Llama]

15 minutes ago, Sampson said:

The easiest language for English speakers to learn is usually said to be Dutch, closely followed by the Scandinavian trio of Danish, Norwegian and Swedish (which are all about 75% the same as each other and if you learn one, you can suppisedly understand the other 2 as they're so similar). As they're in the same "Germanic" language group as English and the grammar is about 80% the same, a lot of times it's just replacing words and switching the word order a bit. Problem is those are pretty niche languages really.

 

German is obviously also a Germanic language but the grammar is very different so it's a lot more difficult than the other Germanic languages coming from an English speaker.

 

Next easiest will be the romance languages, so French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese. And they obviously have a lot more practical use than Dutch or the Scandinavian languages do.

Generally agree with this assessment - though I can't speak for the Scandi languages I have heard similar despite how alien they look and sound.  I don't speak Dutch but I have a passable knowledge of the language just from having to watch TV with Dutch (technically Vlaams) subtitles when I was younger.  Dus ik moet akkord makken dat 't een makkelijk taal is, even if that sentence probably sounds like it's been haphazardly thrown together by a toddler, the fact I can even type it all these years later without ever really having put any effort into learning the language shows how easily it can be picked up. 

 

I would put personally French before German purely because there's one less gender to conjugate, but both languages require a lot of grammatical groundwork and it's not easy to say which one definitively takes more effort.  I've learned French to a mostly conversational level out of necessity but there was a time where I was learning both and achieving similar progress in either.

 

Spanish is one I'm told doesn't take too much effort to pick up too, would make a very handy holiday tongue.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

I’ve been learning Spanish with Duolingo for well over a year, it’s a great app and somehow I’m managing to retain a lot of it even at my old age.

[Carl the Llama]

5 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I've probably spent more time in France than any other country bar the UK and language has never been an issue. The thing is with the French is that they are very proud of their culture and language and take great exception to your first words being, "Parlez-vous Anglais?". However, in my experience, if you try to speak French to them - however poorly you do so - you will get a completely different response.

Tout a fait.  They're a funny lot, greatly offended if you ask them to speak English yet I've actually found it frustrating how many times I'd try to use my French to perform basic daily tasks only to have the conversation forced into English against my will.  How contraire.

[Alf Bentley]

5 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Spanish far easier than French. German is a bitch too my the sounds of it.

 

 

I just did German to O-level (GCSE) decades ago, but brushed it up to go to the 2006 World Cup - and got by fine on an everyday level, ordering food, asking about trains, having simple chat etc.

 

German pronunciation seems more consistent and simpler than French or Portuguese pronunciation (like Spanish, in theory, though I seem to have an issue with the rhythm of Spanish - stress patterns or something).

But German does seem to have more grammar to learn than the Latin languages - strict rules on word order and multiple cases (nominative, accusative, genitive & dative) etc.

[Alf Bentley]

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Tout a fait.  They're a funny lot, greatly offended if you ask them to speak English yet I've actually found it frustrating how many times I'd try to use my French to perform basic daily tasks only to have the conversation forced into English against my will.  How contraire.

 

Very true.

 

My solution: speak very quickly to them in colloquial English. Then, when they don't understand what you said, you can get on with practicing your French again..... 

[martyn]

52 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Lots of great stuff on here - thanks!

 

So, for those that do learn other languages, which is the easiest? I must admit I hated French at school because most of it was reading/writing based and built around words/conversation nobody would actually ever have and the grammatical differences fecking killed it. Maybe I'll cycle around a country with an easier language

Spanish is about as easy as it gets I'd say, especially certain Latin American countries way of speaking it (Colombian/Mexican) where they pronounce things more like an English speaker would.

 

[stripeyfox]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

I’m one of those arrogant English bastards who’ve never learnt another language because the rest of the world speaks English so well.

 

I work with people remotely from all over the world and it never ceases to amaze me how brilliant their English always is.
 

Fair play if you want to invest your time in learning a new language but frankly in today’s world, I can’t really see the point.

I have this every day. I have daily meetings with colleagus in Germany, Belgium, Romania etc and I am always astounded by how well they speak it. I am always a bit humbled when they make a mistake or can't think of the word and then "apologise" for their poor English!

 

[Alf Bentley]

2 minutes ago, martyn said:

Spanish is about as easy as it gets I'd say, especially certain Latin American countries way of speaking it (Colombian/Mexican) where they pronounce things more like an English speaker would.

 

 

The ease or difficulty of European v. Latin American Spanish & Portuguese is an odd one for me.

 

I find texts written in European Spanish/Portuguese easier to understand, as Latin Americans use grammar much more loosely in my experience.

Yet, as you suggest, I find it easier to understand the spoken Spanish/Portuguese of Latin Americans.

That's despite having had more exposure to European Spanish/Portuguese - and never having been to Brazil. I'm much more likely to understand a Brazilian speaking on the news than a Portuguese.

[enmac]

3 hours ago, Izzy said:

I’m one of those arrogant English bastards who’ve never learnt another language because the rest of the world speaks English so well.

 

I work with people remotely from all over the world and it never ceases to amaze me how brilliant their English always is.
 

Fair play if you want to invest your time in learning a new language but frankly in today’s world, I can’t really see the point.

I met some guy, from South East Asia, when on holiday in the US, who preferred to talk with Americans rather than me, because he wanted to learn American English!

I think if you were to spend time in one country, however, you at least should try and learn their language. I'm sure that would at least garner more respect. 

[drumbeat]

I live in France and get by pretty well. I sort of still speak English but use French words. That is to say, my structure and stuff I talk about is 'English'. I'm understood no problems but flag myself very quickly as a non-native speaker, even though my accent is pretty good. You learn how to 'get by' and then realise the language is spoken differently. You learn French from whatever source (formal lessons, on-line, tapes, apps, whatever) and then you have to learn over how to use it.  I'm of the opinion that to really learn a language (that is, how it's actually used) you have to do it by immersion in the country. I accept now that I'll never be native-speaker level but I can hope for some kind of fluency.

 

I'm even of the opinion that you can say things in another language that you just can't, or wouldn't, say in English. Many a times I've heard something in French, heard every single word and know what the words mean individually... but put together as they have been, I'm left clueless! How the f*** it means what it means is beyond me. And sometimes I hear stuff and I'll think you just wouldn't even say it English.  

 

And, of course, there are accents and regional/dialects to contend with. Does your brain in at times.

[Basingstoke Fox]

I've been learning Spanish for 3 years, initially with Duolingo & flashcards with pronunciation. Last year during lockdown, I signed up to an online course whereby you could have an unlimited number of conversations with Spanish speaking teachers via Zoom. It was expensive, so I only did this during months where I had at least a week off, but it helped massively. The only problem is finding the time to continue doing that to keep your knowledge up.

 

 

The key things I'd recommend when starting out are:

• Pronunciation. Focus on this and try to avoid any bad habits right from the start. The typical example of this in Spanish is pronouncing the "R" correctly and never pronouncing it how we do. By learning the exact phonetic sounds of the language, it helps during conversations later down the line.
• Commit to it. Even if it's just for a few minutes every day, it adds up over time. Duolingo's gamification is great for this. Vocab flashcards are also a great way to boost your knowledge over time.
• Music. Listen to music in your target language. It keeps things entertaining and is a great tool for learning if you get an online teacher too..

 

When you learn enough of the language, watching TV / Films with the target language's subtitles is also a great help. For some reason the subtitles on Netflix are usually inaccurate but this Chrome extension's subtitles are more accurate and you can also hover over them for translations - https://languagelearningwithnetflix.com/. Following Spanish, I'd like to learn Portuguese or French as the transition should be made easier.

 

Here's a couple of interesting videos about techniques for picking up languages:

 

 

 

 

I could list more things which I've found useful over the years, but would be wary of inundating you and putting you off the whole thing. Best of luck.

[Izzy]

My boy is just finishing year 7 and he's hated French. His reports are always shit and he's bottom of the class in it.

 

About 3 weeks ago he took it upon himself to learn French at home on his phone instead. He keeps telling me what he's learning and he seems to really enjoy it.

 

The app is Duolingo and it's working great for him. He also seems to learn more about other stuff from watching YouTube than from any teacher.

 

I guess that's the yoof of today for ya 

[Mapperleyfox]

Had a Spanish tutor for a while, only cost £20 for an hour.

 

I now know enough to get by, but by no means fluent.

 

The grammar is a bitch though.

[Daggers]

I found this very useful

 

 

[Vacamion]

2 hours ago, Captain... said:

Final bits of advice on speaking. Put on a French accent, if you're speaking French. Don't speak a foreign language in your normal accent, people won't understand you. Putting on an accent helps with the rhythm of speech and pronunciation. 

 

 

 

This is entirely correct, I have variously winced and laughed at really badly Glaswegian accented French and deep Yorkshire accented German, and what's important is, the foreigners struggled to understand them.

 

There is a balance to be struck between this:

 

 

And this:

 

 

 

Ask Joey Barton...

 

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

28 minutes ago, Izzy said:

My boy is just finishing year 7 and he's hated French. His reports are always shit and he's bottom of the class in it.

 

About 3 weeks ago he took it upon himself to learn French at home on his phone instead. He keeps telling me what he's learning and he seems to really enjoy it.

 

The app is Duolingo and it's working great for him. He also seems to learn more about other stuff from watching YouTube than from any teacher.

 

I guess that's the yoof of today for ya 

Tbf classroom environments aren't always the best for language learning, especially so in a place like the UK where we're notoriously bad at teaching foreign languages.  Good on him for taking the initiative and finding a solution that works for him.