Heading in football limited in training

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Putting the safety aspect to one side, this surely has a huge impact on training for defenders and attackers? 

...not for us, we are not very good at getting on the end of things, at either ends of the pitch!!!

[sacreblueits442]

55 minutes ago, Guest said:

The headlines all seem a bit drastic and it'll be interesting to see how seriously teams take these recommendations, not that we'll have any way of knowing either way of course. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they carry on as normal in the same way that we continue to see players getting knocked out or taking massive blows to the head and playing on.

 

It is something we need to have a good think about sooner or later though. Modern balls might be lighter but they travel faster as a consequence and they don't stick to the ground when wet like the old ones used to. When I was researching this at uni I spoke to one of the neurosurgeons who's been assisting with Raul Jimenez's recovery as well as Dawn Astle and it was pretty sobering to hear what not only her father but the whole family had been through. Football without heading would undoubtedly be worse as a spectacle but if research continues to show there's a clear link then I think it's well worth considering ways we can limit it. I don't think it would be right to ask players to potentially jeopardise their futures just because we all agree diving headers are really great.

 

 

....it would be interesting to find out your conclusion in this matter, to confirm if  your paper corroborated these findings!!!

I am not sure banning headers would impact the game so much, we would just have to adjust the way we attack defences. We would need to keep the ball on the floor more, keepers would feel safe to come off their line to take any high balls played into the box.

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

1 hour ago, Guest said:

The headlines all seem a bit drastic and it'll be interesting to see how seriously teams take these recommendations, not that we'll have any way of knowing either way of course. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they carry on as normal in the same way that we continue to see players getting knocked out or taking massive blows to the head and playing on.

 

It is something we need to have a good think about sooner or later though. Modern balls might be lighter but they travel faster as a consequence and they don't stick to the ground when wet like the old ones used to. When I was researching this at uni I spoke to one of the neurosurgeons who's been assisting with Raul Jimenez's recovery as well as Dawn Astle and it was pretty sobering to hear what not only her father but the whole family had been through. Football without heading would undoubtedly be worse as a spectacle but if research continues to show there's a clear link then I think it's well worth considering ways we can limit it. I don't think it would be right to ask players to potentially jeopardise their futures just because we all agree diving headers are really great.

 

 

Yeah, it says "guidance" and "recommendations," which seems to indicate it's not an enforceable rule.

 

The article also doesn't mention how much more likely a footballer is to get dementia as opposed to die from it, nor how many years it knocks off a life. Also, even if it is likelier, it's good to note how prevalent it is in the general population and the footballing population. I mean, the stats could be horrendous, and I am sure they are out there, but this article doesn't provide them.

[AyewJoking]

Forgive my lack of research and ignorance on the subject but how many players since the inauguration of the Premier league suffer from conditions related to heading the ball?

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, Royston. said:

Forgive my lack of research and ignorance on the subject but how many players since the inauguration of the Premier league suffer from conditions related to heading the ball?

I just wonder how many other sports, carry other hidden dangers for past & present ex-participants & veterans.

Boxing,F1, Rugby,sailing, high-level-Cycling..Tour de france, Motorbikes,Martia-arts ,Plus MMA, then Mountaineering.

That some Uni will decide to research...

 

We still Chose Today  to do dangerous Work and some have dangerous careers.( I use to)

We Chose & decide to go to war..!! Some decide to Work in war-disease-torn areas without weapons, or protection

Sympathies to all loved ones that have suffered...but all around the world, Love ones suffer, because of other Family Members choice of life-paths or careers.

IMO, some of the suffering and their right for understanding is pushed so far out, asking the question that seems to

forget that Essence of life, the right of choice for the individual or individual(s)

People still cry out for..., & need ,idols & heroes, then again some others aspire to be one of those idols, or hero, in all walks of life...

 

We suffer from viruses, Cancer,other various  body and spirit weaknesses, Family Members will always suffer & will Need to Pick up the pieces.

Because of these known/yet unknown natural takers of life, People will Step out, Step up and demand to make their life's Choices

despite knowing the potential uncomfortable consequences.

 

obviously if we can improve our lot, and ask or put foward  also those more awkward questions,that Detail, life-changing consequences, 

It allows an individual Choice that extend the boundaries of descisions using a better base on measured & improved knowledge.

 

Would past & present sportsman / dangerous-career choicers, ...regret their Choice & chosen other paths...

They already know sport  injuries, work-injuries, could  Curtail their aspirations.

Dementia was a Theme back in the 60s..I suppose our/others machoism had more hold of the roost ..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LestaFox92]

What the hell is going on  we should ban tackling there is potential for broken legs.

[davieG]

Clubs have a duty of care and could be building case for future damages if they don't ensure it's complied with.

 

I wonder where the joind up thinking is when FIFI are trialing kick ins in place of throw ins.

 

Maybe they should look at replacing the corner kick with a throw in a set distance from the goal along the goal line instead if they are serious about this.

[Vardinio'sCat]

At least we don't follow rugby! Surely they are totally stuffed.

 

I could see Peter Cech style head guards in practice also being experimented with, maybe even used in games eventually. At least the game is really trying to make positive changes, and we do have to face up to the reality of multiple heavy impacts to the head. We can see from the concussion changes that it is a slow and difficult process getting things right, but the legal situation demands it.

 

I did say last season that we could do with headers being banned, given that we are pretty rubbish at them. I bet Mendy/Perez/Madders etc must be loving all this, revenge of the diddymen. 

 

 

[WigstonWanderer]

On 28/07/2021 at 20:55, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

Good thing for youngsters who might learn how to play the game without lumping it forward.

 

Theres lots of assumptions here that essentially need more research. Like are modern balls better than the old supposedly heavier balls? I don’t think that’s clear, and whether the pros of today will be caught up in a greater prevalence of cognitive issues - which btw are not just solely down to things like this (dementia risks are variable - including genetics and lifestyle etc, all the way down to educational attainment).

Modern balls are certainly much different to the ones we had at school. Always seemed to be waterlogged and weighed a ton. No matter how many times you headed the ball, you always seemed to get the laces. Guaranteed headache if you happened to make contact with a high ball. Of course, the balls professional footballers played with back then were probably not that bad, but I still suspect that they were much worse than the ones they use to today.

 

Maybe heading will be removed, but it simply won’t be the same game, and would be a sad loss. Same problem as that faced by professional boxing.

Edited 29 July 2021 by WigstonWanderer

[Vardinio'sCat]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

Clubs have a duty of care and could be building case for future damages if they don't ensure it's complied with.

 

I wonder where the joind up thinking is when FIFI are trialing kick ins in place of throw ins.

 

Maybe they should look at replacing the corner kick with a throw in a set distance from the goal along the goal line instead if they are serious about this.

 

I do think we are going to have to be creative, to minimise the fundamental changes to the game. Throw-ins instead of corners wouldn't be the worst change I can think of.

 

[sacreblueits442]

6 minutes ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

At least we don't follow rugby! Surely they are totally stuffed.

 

I could see Peter Cech style head guards in practice also being experimented with, maybe even used in games eventually. At least the game is really trying to make positive changes, and we do have to face up to the reality of multiple heavy impacts to the head. We can see from the concussion changes that it is a slow and difficult process getting things right, but the legal situation demands it.

 

I did say last season that we could do with headers being banned, given that we are pretty rubbish at them. I bet Mendy/Perez/Madders etc must be loving all this, revenge of the diddymen. 

 

 

...concussion protocols implemented in Rugby Football!!!

It is addressed on the pitch and also not allowed to play in subsequent games after.

[yorkie1999]

Sounds good in theory, no chance it will happen in practice. there's not one player in the world who'll even count the amount of headers in training let alone stop heading the ball when he gets to 10 in a week.

[Vardinio'sCat]

12 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...concussion protocols implemented in Rugby Football!!!

It is addressed on the pitch and also not allowed to play in subsequent games after.

 

I think some sports are more threatened than others, and clearly footy has a big issue, but I think there are some other sports that are even more difficult.

 

It just so happens that I don't like rugby, but these problems aren't funny so perhaps I shouldn't be joking about it. My apologies

 

[sacreblueits442]

2 minutes ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

I think some sports are more threatened than others, and clearly footy has a big issue, but I think there are some other sports that are even more difficult.

 

It just so happens that I don't like rugby, but these problems aren't funny so perhaps I shouldn't be joking about it. My apologies

 

....no need to apologise, I did not take it as in any way, as a detrimental remark against the game!!!

My reply was purely for information, not a snap back at you!

[filthyfox]

On 28/07/2021 at 13:48, TrickyTrev Benjamin said:

Can’t take heading away from football. Wouldn’t be the same game. I’m sorry but footballs aren’t what they where 30-40 years ago either. Corners would be pointless. There’s a lot of footballers who have header the ball their whole lives and never ended up with dementia. 

An old School teacher of mine played for West Ham in the 70s.  Not a well known player, but I remember when he played at school (a bloody good teacher who would join in at lunchtimes)  he was a specialist header.

 

Now he has alzheimers.  I believe there is definitely a link.  And I agree with ythe point that players no longer boot around a soggy bag of water.

[Saxondale]

This is a difficult one. Obviously it would change the game.

 

Interesting that a lot of sports have brought in head injury / concussion protocols, whilst the research does NOT actually link dementia to isolated head injuries, rather than to repeated minor blows to the head (e.g. heading the ball). 
 

Therefore, you either remove / reduce heading or accept the risk. Same goes for rugby - there is obviously a risk associated with having your head repeatedly bashed in a scrum. 
 

 

[TrickyTrev Benjamin]

So you can’t head a ball, yet two 19 stone blokes can punch each other in the head for 12 rounds ? I’m sorry world gone so soft. A lot of them players are dying in their 70’s and 80s. It’s not like there dying young plus what about all the other 70 and 80 years olds dying of dementia who have never headed a ball before ? We’re at that stage in the world where people must find fault with anything. 

[Beliall]

i would rather see players wear a petr chec style helmet than this  happen to be honest. 

[NasPb]

Welp slimani will be the most demented person ever then 

[whoareyaaa]

1 minute ago, NasPb said:

Welp slimani will be the most demented person ever then 

That would be Steve Howard

[NasPb]

9 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

That would be Steve Howard

good shout too, also could mention wood too

[Fox92]

3 hours ago, filthyfox said:

An old School teacher of mine played for West Ham in the 70s.  Not a well known player, but I remember when he played at school (a bloody good teacher who would join in at lunchtimes)  he was a specialist header.

 

Now he has alzheimers.  I believe there is definitely a link.  And I agree with ythe point that players no longer boot around a soggy bag of water.

Of course there is a link. You're hitting something against your head consistently. But you're not telling me people have only just realised this.

 

1 hour ago, TrickyTrev Benjamin said:

So you can’t head a ball, yet two 19 stone blokes can punch each other in the head for 12 rounds ? I’m sorry world gone so soft. A lot of them players are dying in their 70’s and 80s. It’s not like there dying young plus what about all the other 70 and 80 years olds dying of dementia who have never headed a ball before ? We’re at that stage in the world where people must find fault with anything. 

I do agree with your point and football wouldn't be the same game without heading.

 

However there are players who have died young with it. Jeff Astle, for example, wasn't even 60 when he died.

 

Like I said above though, I don't believe people have just realised hitting your head against something for 90 mins every week doesn't cause damage.

[NaijaFox]

On 28/07/2021 at 05:56, majaco said:

Overall, this has to be a good thing.

 

I wonder where this will lead.  Perhaps in 20 years there will no longer be heading in the game.   

For me, the only real issue is clash of heads. Otherwise,  simply make the ball lighter (which would of course affect other areas of the game). Football without heading would be a considerably limited game.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Of course there is a link. You're hitting something against your head consistently. But you're not telling me people have only just realised this.

 

I do agree with your point and football wouldn't be the same game without heading.

 

However there are players who have died young with it. Jeff Astle, for example, wasn't even 60 when he died.

 

Like I said above though, I don't believe people have just realised hitting your head against something for 90 mins every week doesn't cause damage.

I'm not sure I see your point. It obviously isn't as though the idea that it might be a problem has only just occurred to people but by its nature this sort of research takes a long time and governing bodies will - probably quite rightly - be hesitant to make dramatic changes until they see a wealth of incontrovertible evidence that compels them to do so. I think it's a reasonable enough idea to take cautious measures while there is a suggestion but not definitive proof of a connection, especially when their recent studies have hinted that younger people with weaker neck muscles are taking the biggest forces from headers.

[Chrysalis]

I wonder if a compromise might be reached where protective head gear can be worn to absorb the impact?

 

Otherwise now this has started its inevitable heading will eventually be removed from the game, even if its decades away.