Why do we struggle against high pressing teams ?

[marcymarc446]

Having watched the Utd game and again on Match of the day you could clearly see that they weren't playing a high pressing game. This made it easy for Tielemens to play through the middle with ease, he had a field day. But as soon as we play a high pressing team we really struggle to get the ball even to the half way line and then it looks like we're being passive.

How do we overcome this problem which we'll probably get again against Brentford.

[Pliskin]

Ordinarily we can, and it suits us if teams press us because we can usually when we’re at full tilt play through it.

 

We haven’t been at it this season for one reason or another, but yesterday we were. 
 

But you’re not wrong, United we’re shocking in midfield, and gave Youri all of the time in the world to pick them apart. But it’s no surprise, Pogba is the biggest waste of space I’ve ever seen on a pitch, he’s Junior Lewis with a shittier hair cut. 

[st albans fox]

Isn’t this why teams high press ?? 
 

you don’t have be a technically gifted player to do it so it narrows the gap between the teams that aren’t so good and those that are (on a tech level)

 

the best teams are the ones that are tech gifted and high press (Man City and lpool)

 

 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

Ordinarily we can, and it suits us if teams press us because we can usually when we’re at full tilt play through it.

 

We haven’t been at it this season for one reason or another, but yesterday we were. 
 

But you’re not wrong, United we’re shocking in midfield, and gave Youri all of the time in the world to pick them apart. But it’s no surprise, Pogba is the biggest waste of space I’ve ever seen on a pitch, he’s Junior Lewis with a shittier hair cut. 

He usually has a good game against us

 

but asking him to play in the double pivot role is a bit like asking madders or ayo to do that for us - it’s not what he does. He lacks the discipline- it’s why ole is a sh1t manager !

he takes the risk that they will be picked off and won’t score enough to get the win. It’s not necessary with the riches that they have available. With our lack of confidence they should have played matic and mctominay as the two to be solid and allow the front four to pick us apart ….

 

[shailen]

I don't think we do. We make our own mistakes when playing out from the back and Kasper isn't the best keeper with his distribution imo. I think we need to improve on composure when playing out and working out how best to beat the press. 

[whoareyaaa]

If we play quick clever passes like we did for 90 minutes yesterday we should be OK that should give the players a lot of confidence.

[Webbo]

It's kinda the point of pressing, to make the side struggle. 

[Fox1980]

Because are centre backs aren’t as comfortable on the ball as we would like them to be and if they get put under pressure they make mistakes.

[Lcfc-1992]

Brentford are going to do it next week, I don’t know why for the first 15 minutes we just go long. It will get the crowd up up for it when we make a few mistakes. 

[Corky]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

It's kinda the point of pressing, to make the side struggle. 

True, but I think the frustration is that we can play through it. We've got a team capable of knocking it around quickly, good movement too. We just seem to get into a pattern where the game becomes laborious. 

 

You saw the difference yesterday when pressing higher up the pitch.

[marcymarc446]

I'm hoping we'll improve when Fofana is back, he has the capability like Evans to carry the ball out from the back to create more space for the midfielders.

[Dahnsouff]

Pressing, like every facet of football has degrees of quality. Some are epic, like Liverpool or Man City, some are less so, some don’t even bother (Like Man Utd). So it depends how good the opponent is at pressing just as much as how good we are at breaking the press.

Edited 17 October 2021 by Dahnsouff

[StriderHiryu]

8 minutes ago, Corky said:

True, but I think the frustration is that we can play through it. We've got a team capable of knocking it around quickly, good movement too. We just seem to get into a pattern where the game becomes laborious. 

 

You saw the difference yesterday when pressing higher up the pitch.

It is not easy to play through the press! Harry Maguire is normally a defender who is excellent with the ball at his feet and capable of playing out of the press and did it many times when he played with us. And yet yesterday he was awful as our strikers and even wing backs forced him and Lindeloff into mistake after mistake. At any level of football pressing is really hard to play around.

 

Yesterday also showed us what happens when a team presses badly, because Man United did it several times. Often Bruno (who had an awful game) had a rush of blood and tried to press from the front, whom we then passed our way around, leaving acres of space in the middle of the park for Tielemans / Maddison to receive the ball and turn and then help make a chance for us. So pressing works two ways, it improves your attack AND it improves your defence. So the second part of your quote is spot on, because it gave us the platform to build on. We were 10-20 yards further up the pitch than we were against Palace for example.

 

For me the biggest difference was we looked confident and it yesterday. Probably because we were playing a big draw in Manchester United and also because a certain Northern Irishman was playing in the middle of a back 3. How many times did Jonny Evans misplace a pass yesterday? I can't think of a single one! And as a result I can't remember Amartey or Soyuncu giving the ball away either, the back 3 looked super solid, even under pressure.

[StriderHiryu]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Pressing, like every facet of football has degrees of quality. Some are epic, like Liverpool or Man City, some are less so, some don’t even bother (Like Man Utd). So it depends how good the opponent is at pressing just as much as how good we are at breaking the press.

Man U did press at times during the match, but they remind me a lot of Lampard's Chelsea because they don't press properly as a team. They leave massive space in the areas behind them, which good teams e.g. us will exploit. When Tuchel got to Chelsea the reason why they improved so much so quickly is because he knows what he's doing and fixed those problems in the space of a few weeks. There was a Kelechi chance yesterday that came about because Bruno got a rush of blood, our defenders played it between them, to Castagne, who found Tielemans all in the space of about 20 seconds and all of a sudden their central midfield had more holes in it that cheese.

 

I'm not saying a new coach would transform Man U over night because they don't try to press the full game, whereas under Lampard Chelsea did, it just wasn't done properly. But they are the classic example of a team that has superstar players but a poor coach. Poch at PSG also has luxury players, but gets round it somewhat by playing Gueye, Herrera, Verati, etc to do the dirty work. That said, they've been largely unimpressive so far this season, mainly because their front 3 don't put the effort in.

 

Yesterday Jamie Vardy was exemplary. He played the full 90 minutes, pressed throughout and got the defining goal of the game. All the talk pre-match was about Ronaldo, but the best ageing striker in that match was wearing blue.

[An Sionnach]

You have to go long sometimes over the press, and this needs accurate balls to forwards who can read when the pass is coming and avoid the offside trap. Of course Vardy has done that many times and Daka can do similarly.

[VLC86]

Why do we struggle? Because we rarely ever go long so teams set traps in wide areas and quite often we **** up. 
 

I thought yesterday Man U started by deciding they would let Evans and Cags do what they wanted but set traps on Ricky P and Castagne but either the players decided they wouldn’t do it or it was just a chance on a few occasion that they did it but they stopped.

[Nod.E]

It may sound a little 'Burnley', but against a high press I believe we should play the channels. It's probably where we can get some value out of Barnes. The emphasis on the press is flipped as we scrap to pick up the second balls.

 

Trying to play through it can work, but it requires everyone to be absolutely at the top of their game, which is a big ask.

[Dahnsouff]

25 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

It may sound a little 'Burnley', but against a high press I believe we should play the channels. It's probably where we can get some value out of Barnes. The emphasis on the press is flipped as we scrap to pick up the second balls.

 

Trying to play through it can work, but it requires everyone to be absolutely at the top of their game, which is a big ask.

But then you are back to one up top, important to have both options to call upon

[sacreblueits442]

2 hours ago, Webbo said:

It's kinda the point of pressing, to make the side struggle. 

...pretty much the question I  thought was, how do we beat it, not why teams press!!!

  To take a look at a way around this, one option would be,

1. you would have to go from "back to front"  someone like Soyuncu or even Evans has the ability to distribute long range. In order to press effectively you have to have a high back line and with our runners, like Vardy and Barnes and support from someone like Lookman, it would be a ploy that could easily backfire for them.

 2. The other option is to be brave on the ball, where as the defender has to be brave to play the pass into midfield, and the player receiving the ball is receiving the ball facing his goal, and is adept enough and brave enough, to maneuver in tight spaces.

  We do have the tendency to bring the situation on ourselves and a prime example being the first leg versus Villa in the cup semi final. We spent the first ten minutes passing it between our backline as we had no outlet with both Wing-backs pushed up to the halfway line.

[Chrysalis]

We struggle because of our approach, not because what the other team are doing.

 

Against the likes of man city and man utd, we move the ball forward far quicker, whilst against  west ham, burnley etc. for some reason brendan wants us to pass sideways for 10 minutes so we are "in control of the game".

 

I also feel nacho returning in recent games has made our team more confident, there is now more bodies in forward positions and he is a very effective player now.  Nacho was involved in all four goals.

 

I feel we might also have started to develop a problem where the players are more up for the bigger games, its kind of reverse on psychology vs that season where we were beating everyone bottom half but collapsed against the bigger teams.

Edited 17 October 2021 by Chrysalis

[gerblod]

Patience and discipline. We've been found wanting during what's proven to be the catastrophic injury list to central defenders.

Managers are always doing a balancing act - available funds, injury absences and where to strengthen - and it's apparent that Evans, while still an incredible asset to the team, is nursing what could be a career-ending injury.

I think we need to look for a 'Latin' kingpin - Argentinian, Uruguayan, Italian or Spanish player. He's going to be special and expensive, but it takes what it takes to create the kind of team reflected by the kind of club City have become. Doesn't have to be exceptionally fast or athletic, but an exceptional reader of situations. Other people have mentioned Diego Godin on here. That's the level necessary.

Maybe the solution is closer to hand. Could JJ adapt his talents to that position. IMO he's the closest thing to a 'total' footballer on City's books.

We need to transition Evans into a defence coach - that knowledge should be kept at Leicester. 

City are on that cusp and knife edge where one big money swoop can always knock our aspirations back. We have s-i-d now. I hope Tielemans hand-on-badge gesture means something solid - because another season from him could mean that critical step up in terms of consistency.

[Guest SO1]

2 hours ago, gerblod said:

Patience and discipline. We've been found wanting during what's proven to be the catastrophic injury list to central defenders.

Managers are always doing a balancing act - available funds, injury absences and where to strengthen - and it's apparent that Evans, while still an incredible asset to the team, is nursing what could be a career-ending injury.

I think we need to look for a 'Latin' kingpin - Argentinian, Uruguayan, Italian or Spanish player. He's going to be special and expensive, but it takes what it takes to create the kind of team reflected by the kind of club City have become. Doesn't have to be exceptionally fast or athletic, but an exceptional reader of situations. Other people have mentioned Diego Godin on here. That's the level necessary.

Maybe the solution is closer to hand. Could JJ adapt his talents to that position. IMO he's the closest thing to a 'total' footballer on City's books.

We need to transition Evans into a defence coach - that knowledge should be kept at Leicester. 

City are on that cusp and knife edge where one big money swoop can always knock our aspirations back. We have s-i-d now. I hope Tielemans hand-on-badge gesture means something solid - because another season from him could mean that critical step up in terms of consistency.

Fofana the II would do just fine for me if such a miracle can be had.......

[drumbeat]

(Thanks to all contributors for this thread. I'm tactically unaware for the most part so I'm benefitting from the opinions being offered here. It's this forum at its best for me. )

[yorkie1999]

8 hours ago, marcymarc446 said:

Having watched the Utd game and again on Match of the day you could clearly see that they weren't playing a high pressing game. This made it easy for Tielemens to play through the middle with ease, he had a field day. But as soon as we play a high pressing team we really struggle to get the ball even to the half way line and then it looks like we're being passive.

How do we overcome this problem which we'll probably get again against Brentford.

Play two strikers and challenge for every ball. Maybe that’s why Man U couldn’t press us

[Stadt]

Because we're not direct enough most of the time. Short passes invite pressure, the theory is that you invite pressure to then play the ball into the space vacated by the opposition pressuring the ball - instead we don't actually capitalise on that often and continue to play shorter passes. Perhaps Ndidi is slightly to blame as he's not very comfortable playing out of danger. They were awful yesterday but Soumare is innately ore composed and press resistant so helped us progress the ball better.