Jimmy Carr and that joke

[doverfox]

Offending dwarfs ok.

Offending Charlies mum ok.

Offending Antivaxxers ok.

Offending Gypies not ok.

 

[foxile5]

Comedy should be free from the restraints of moderation and censorship.

 

The fact the government have gotten involved is ****ing shameful. Hopefully, then, they'll be cracking down on Henning Wehn making light of the war. Or getting rid of Dad's Army. Or any one of the number of other comics who have made light of Hitler in the past.

[theessexfox]

Wasn't that funny, was it

[Fox92]

13 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Comedy should be free from the restraints of moderation and censorship.

 

The fact the government have gotten involved is ****ing shameful. Hopefully, then, they'll be cracking down on Henning Wehn making light of the war. Or getting rid of Dad's Army. Or any one of the number of other comics who have made light of Hitler in the past.

I don't think they've ever come out and said Nazi's had "positives" though.

 

Horrible thing to say.

[jammie82uk]

I’m more surprised it has actually took this long for someone to be offended considering it was released on Christmas Day last year 

people who watch him on a regular basis know what to expect from him and even if you are a new viewer he does give warnings about content 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[st albans fox]

It’s simply unacceptable 

 

one of the main reasons that it’s unacceptable is because the traveller and Roma population are still subject to widespread racism 

 

and one of the main reasons for this is that jokes like this have been considered acceptable 

please don’t equate anti vaxers with a race which is subject to abuse - it’s a cheap shot and it doesn’t stand up to any debate

 

’dwarves’ - agree that making offensive jokes about dwarves is out of line. 
 

BUT making a joke about a group which isn’t hurtful is fine 

 

you can tell the joke that a Jewish mother is proud that her son wears his surgical mask to protect her when he visits but at the same time it upsets her because it reminds her that he isn’t a doctor.  That’s acceptable  because the stereotype of the Jewish mother wanting her son to be a doctor is not offensive or hurtful in any way. 
 

It’s going to be very difficult to find any ‘joke’ about the holocaust amusing or acceptable.  Maybe in a hundred years if we’ve moved on as a society and there is no racism then you could find an angle …….but we are still so far from there. 

 

[Facecloth]

23 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I don't think they've ever come out and said Nazi's had "positives" though.

 

Horrible thing to say.

Sean Lock did actually.

[Finnegan]

51 minutes ago, doverfox said:

Offending Antivaxxers ok.

Offending Gypies not ok.

 

Ummm. Yeah? 

[Mythyaar]

Increasing censorship is not the way forward. 

The joke he told wasn't funny to me, but it was to others.

 

There *can* be some very funny jokes that are in extremely bad taste. Ricky Gervais at the Golden Globes and his reference to the film "Two Popes" being a very good example.

 

If we pandered to to every individual's sensitivities and objections there would be very few jokes able to be told. And that would be to society's detriment.

 

[ealingfox]

30 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

I’m more surprised it has actually took this long for someone to be offended considering it was released on Christmas Day last year 

people who watch him on a regular basis know what to expect from him and even if you are a new viewer he does give warnings about content 

 

 

I'm not surprised it's taken 6 weeks of a Jimmy Carr show being up before anybody watched it and that nobody who actually went admitted to it tbf

[StanSP]

17 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Sean Lock did actually.

Yep, and it was hilarious. 

 

Jimmy Carr gets the attention because he already has that reputation of being a very dark-humoured comedian. 

 

 

[Finnegan]

12 minutes ago, Mythyaar said:

Increasing censorship is not the way forward. 

The joke he told wasn't funny to me, but it was to others.

 

There *can* be some very funny jokes that are in extremely bad taste. Ricky Gervais at the Golden Globes and his reference to the film "Two Popes" being a very good example.

 

If we pandered to to every individual's sensitivities and objections there would be very few jokes able to be told. And that would be to society's detriment.

 

 

Depends what you mean by censorship. 

 

Jimmy Carr shouldn't be locked up for what he said. Definitely not. If he went in to an auditorium, got a crowd up in to a frenzy and instigated the assault of a nearby G&T site then yes but for laughing at the holocaust? No. 

 

But he isn't being. Let's be clear here, nobody is shutting down Carr's ability to make jokes like that. His freedom is not at stake if he continues to say what he wants to and make jokes about what he wants to.

 

But, as has been said a million times before, freedom from speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Carr can say what the fvck he wants but if people overwhelmingly don't like it then there'll be consequences to that. If he ends up losing employment opportunities as a result he's not been "censored" he's just not welcome. There's a massive fvcking difference there. 

 

You are free to be a bigoted arsehole, but I'm not obliged to hang around with you listening to it if you chose to be. 

[Dr Marco]

 

[bovril]

I've made my feelings clear on the other thread. As some on this forum know I lived a long time in Eastern Europe and worked with Roma, I know quite a few in the community in London too as my partner works as a translator. I have to admit I felt pretty sick when I read it, and felt even worse when I watched it and saw the reaction. I can't imagine how some members of that group felt, many of whom do live with the constant fear of violence.

 

I don't believe he should be cancelled, whatever that even means, and I really don't like the idea of legislating against this kind of thing. I'm just not sure what some people expect - that nobody is going to be upset by it? If you are baffled by the negative reaction to this, just for once put yourself in somebody else's shoes. As for the guy likening it to antivaxxers, I genuinely envy you for having such a sheltered life. Ignorance must really be bliss. 

Edited 7 February 2022 by bovril

[Fox92]

26 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Yep, and it was hilarious. 

 

Jimmy Carr gets the attention because he already has that reputation of being a very dark-humoured comedian. 

 

 

No wonder I've never seen it if it was on that programme!

[Mythyaar]

26 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Depends what you mean by censorship. 

 

Jimmy Carr shouldn't be locked up for what he said. Definitely not. If he went in to an auditorium, got a crowd up in to a frenzy and instigated the assault of a nearby G&T site then yes but for laughing at the holocaust? No. 

 

But he isn't being. Let's be clear here, nobody is shutting down Carr's ability to make jokes like that. His freedom is not at stake if he continues to say what he wants to and make jokes about what he wants to.

 

But, as has been said a million times before, freedom from speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Carr can say what the fvck he wants but if people overwhelmingly don't like it then there'll be consequences to that. If he ends up losing employment opportunities as a result he's not been "censored" he's just not welcome. There's a massive fvcking difference there. 

 

You are free to be a bigoted arsehole, but I'm not obliged to hang around with you listening to it if you chose to be. 

By censorship, I mean free to tell that "joke".

 

Was it offensive? Yes.

 

Was it funny? Not particularly.

 

Has it stirred up anti Roma sentiment? Not really; quite possibly the opposite now with the public outcry. 

 

Should he be free to tell that joke again? Absolutely.

 

The general public will doubtless determine his fate. It  should be noted that it hasn't stopped the likes of Baddiel (Anne Diamond still birth), Frankie Boyle (Harvey joke) or David Schneider (also as disparaging as Carr about the Roma community). They were all equally, if not more appalling, and just as unfunny. Those three "comedians" joked in haste, and are now repenting at their leisure. Carr will doubtless do likewise.

 

 

 

[Benguin]

I bet there are people who sit through endless television programming looking for things to be offended by, I'm more concerned about those people than Jimmy Carr personally. 

[Scotch]

Genuine question, does anyone know of, heard about or read about any actual Gypsies being overly offended by this? 

[urban.spaceman]

The whole reaction has been extremely weird. It's Jimmy Carr. That's not even his most offensive joke. That's not even his most offensive joke about the Holocaust.

 

Was it offensive? Of course. Was it funny? Yes it was, because people laughed. Humour and offence are subjective. The clip was removed completely from its context including Carr's own explanation, deliberately to cause offence - some people are genuinely trying to suggest he's an actual Nazi and so are the people who laughed at the joke, which I find to be much more sinister than the actual joke. As is the comments from politicians on all sides that this could be a prosecutable offence. Serious people - politicians, activists, literal-minded and utterly joyless people - should absolutely not get to decide what artists are allowed to release to their audience, what broadcasters are allowed to provide, and what audiences are allowed to consume.

 

Chappelle got into hot water with trans activists because of his most recent special - which was brilliant BTW - in which he talked about a trans comedian who'd killed herself after being bullied by the same people for tweeting in support of him. This is part of that tweet: "He isn't punching up or punching down. He's punching lines. That's his job and he's a master of his craft". That, for me, applies perfectly to Carr and this joke.

[Wymsey]

Any joke about the Holocaust is vile; irrespective of whether or not one is more offensive than others regarding the topic.

It's quite backwards comedy when one has to 'joke' about an atrocity to gain more fans/instant laughs.

[st albans fox]

9 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Was it offensive? Of course. Was it funny? Yes it was, because people laughed.

I suggest people laughed because they were part of an audience at a comedy performance …..they were expecting to hear something funny and responded on auto pilot …perhaps most of the laughter was that embarrassed kind of laughter where you just feel really awkward ? 

 

had you told them that ‘joke’ out of context and not been Jimmy Carr then I reckon 99% of those audience members wouldn’t have laughed -
 

I’m yet to find anyone who has said they found it to be funny …..

[MonkeyTennis?]

It's worth listening to Louis Theroux's 'Grounded' podcast, where he interviews Frankie Boyle (who used to write jokes for Jimmy Carr). He's very different to his public persona, and they talk a lot about offensive jokes, context, etc. It's really interesting. 

[DoveValleyFox]

Ok, I'll bite.

 

Anyone laugh at Bernard Manning's racist jokes about black and Asian people stealing everyone's jobs? No, thought not (98% of people wouldn't have the stones to admit if they did).

 

Believe me, to someone whose people were victims of the holocaust, many other atrocities, slavery and racism for over 1000 years, Jimmy Carr's attack isn't funny either. 

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, Mythyaar said:

Should he be free to tell that joke again? Absolutely.

 

But you haven't actually answered. What do you mean FREE TO? He's always free to. He's still walking the streets, isn't he? Nobody's arresting him for telling the joke, nobody's gagged him for telling the joke. We don't live in a country where he's having limbs chopped off, or gotten flogged or publicly stoned for telling the joke? He can tell any joke he wants to, literally not a single soul is stopping him. If he lived in Saudi Arabia and had made that joke about Arabs, not the Roma, then you'd see what censorship looked like.

 

But when people complain about "censorship" and being "free" to tell jokes and - lets be honest here - be fvcking rude, what they really mean is "free from the consequences." If you've got the honesty and integrity to be straight with me, you'll admit that that's pretty much what you mean, isn't it? That Jimmy Carr should still be on the TV making that joke without having to face any repercussions? But if the overwhelming majority of people don't want to hear that joke because it's shit, it's offensive and it makes him look like a cvnt then why on Earth would Netflix want to keep it up there? Why on Earth would ITV or the BBC want to invite him back to panel shows if that's the sort of humour he finds funny?

 

If Jimmy Carr is free to make that joke then so are those broadcasters free to say they don't want to host him. That freedom goes both ways. The "freedom" you're asking for is the "freedom" to have the world exactly like you want it, regardless of what anyone else wants.

 

Jimmy Carr is not being censored. He's not being oppressed. Authoritarianism isn't Jimmy Carr's problem right now, Jimmy Carr's problem right now is democracy in action. People are voting with their feet by getting the fvck away from him.

[Charl91]

I don't have a problem with it. Not his best, but still gave me a little chuckle. I think context is important, and too often when people are clamouring to be at the front of the outrage queue, the context is ignored.

 

Would I find a comedian funny if he held racist views, and used his standup as a platform to air them? No, not really. But am I supposed to believe that Jimmy Carr hates Roma Gypsies? If so, the list of people and groups that he hates must be extremely long, because he covers pretty much everybody. Or are we saying that it's ok to make jokes about certain groups, but not others? I don't like saying "This topic should be off limits". Which tragic events can we make jokes about. The titanic? The Battle of Hastings? The problem is, it's quite subjective. A joke about Grenfell, I'd probably cringe rather than laugh. A joke about the HIndenberg? I probably wouldn't bat an eyelid. Both tragic, only difference is the passage of time between them. 

 

Back to the joke itself. The joke works because Roma Gypsies are still often a marginalised group in our society. If you look at the joke past the surface level, my interpretation is that it holding a candle to the fact that while many groups are now quite well protected, society still often holds unsavoury views about this group (undoubtedly true). If your takeaway from this is "Jimmy Carr hates Gypsies", then I feel you rather missed the point.

 

But if you don't like it, fair enough don't watch it.  

 

 

 

Edited 7 February 2022 by Charl91