Wout Faes

[urban.spaceman]

Booooo.

[dmayne7]

1 minute ago, Chrysalis said:

So who has made more clearances than him out of our defenders then?

Clearances made doesn't equal the best defender .

 

He makes a least 1 massive error every game, sometimes more. And that doesn't have to be gifting the opposition a goal, it could also be that he's caught miles out of position, dives in when he shouldn't. The whole defence takes responsibility for how crap it's been (and the whole team because of how open we are) but as a defender, your job is to not make mistakes first and foremost. Faes always makes big errors and it's not like he's got the ability to completely dominant forwards for 90 mins either (which is pointless if you're then gifting up a huge chance).

 

Don't think Okoli has been great but he's miles ahead of Faes. VK been poor, still much better. Even Justin who has been awful on the whole has still been less shite than Faes. Faes had a fantastic game against Bournemouth but that's been it. Otherwise he's been delivering 5/10 performances at best. Pretty much every goal that Justin has been at fault or blamed for, Faes has been involved in someway.

 

I genuinely cannot fathom why anyone would think he's competent. He's only being picked because he's slightly less slow than Coast/Vestergaard and I wouldn't be surprised if it's also because he'll kick up a massive fuss if he gets dropped (speculation of course).

[don_danbury]

[dmayne7]

5 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Also curious, if I was a defender but deliberately didnt close down players approaching our goal, would I be seen as a better defender because I wasnt involved in the lead up to the goal?  Faes is probably our most aggressive defender in closing opponents down so he is involved more because of that.

You're definitely on the wind up now . Did you watch today? So many times he just backed off and let Justin make the decision (a player who needs all the help he can get at the moment).

[MonarchFox]

3 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Also curious, if I was a defender but deliberately didnt close down players approaching our goal, would I be seen as a better defender because I wasnt involved in the lead up to the goal?  Faes is probably our most aggressive defender in closing opponents down so he is involved more because of that.

That's actually one of his issues.  He doesn't know when to go and when not to.

 

He can't organise the players around him, our defensive line is a complete mess.  You can still sort that even if they are breaking through midfield.

 

He's an average defender at best, more a liability in my opinion.

[StriderHiryu]

4 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Issues is we have limited bunch of CBs, if Okoli isn't fit we have Coady and Vestergaard.

 

Same as people calling for JJ to come it means Hamza in.

 

I think we need come up with a more structured shape, we are far to open especially on transition.

 

4 hours ago, shiv said:

The difference is, Amartey always gave 100%. Whilst he was limited in ability you couldn’t ever fault his effort or call him lazy. Faes and Justin put on absolutely disgraceful performances today. Nothing more infuriating than seeing a lack of effort.

 

Faes was awful today, but once again the system we used didn't do either him or Justin any favours. Despite setting up with 5 at the back, we kept pushing up and leaving gaps between the outside CBs and our wing backs.

 

 

^ The idea was that if one of the full backs pushed up, we'd still have a "psuedo" back four to defend with.

 

 

 

^ The problem is that due to the positions taken up by that pseduo back four, there were corridors of space that could be exploited. Now in the above example, it doesn't look bad, but the warning signs were there...

 

 

^ And Thomas Frank figured this out pretty quickly. Justin has stepped up, there was a huge gap behind him and the ball gets played to Damsgard here. Faes is going across to cover, which will mean Schade is free, Wissa has got goal side of Okoli and Mbeumo is going to be totally free on the back post. Brentford didn't score here, but they already showed they knew how to beat the 343 system.

 

 

^ This is what I mean about the system being poor. Thomas is going out to pick up Mbeumo, we have a pseudo back 4, but there's a huge gap in between Koli and Thomas here. By adjusting instructions to his players, Frank could get players exploiting these spaces.

 

 

 

^ But there's not defending Faes in this game, he was awful and for me has has dropped back to back 1/10 performances. This for me sums him up. It's a great through ball played to Schade for his hat trick, but Faes could have stuck a foot out here to play it to Hermansen IMO. But a poor starting position, reading of the game and being lazy mean it found it's way through.

 

I'll be doing a mini analysis of the game on the Good Morning Foxes show on Blue Tinted glasses tomrrow if you want to see more.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

I was curious of the stats taking games played into account, I assume you have them then to share?

I don't think they've been adjusted for today's games yet so Coady's are obviously enormously skewed by having only played a few minutes beforehand. But per 90 minutes Okoli makes marginally more clearances than Faes (I mean so marginally as to be insignificant) but he also makes more tackles and interceptions, more blocks and fewer errors leading to shots. Faes is better in the air but defensively that's about it. Ideally I don't think you'd want any of them starting games but for me the best pairing is Vestergaard and Okoli.

[Chrysalis]

8 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

I was curious of the stats taking games played into account, I assume you have them then to share?

Seems they can be found on the EPL website, I didnt expand but appearances is 13 for Faes and 9 for Okoli

Goals conceded is goals conceded for the team by the looks of it.

 

It does show errors leading to goal, which is 0 for Okoli, so for those who want more stats to analyse they are here.

Clearances per game miles better for Faes.

Its how you want to interpret, do I feel Faes has prevented more than 2 goals? Yes.  But yes does make the question of who is the better defender more interesting.

 

[Chrysalis]

4 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

You're definitely on the wind up now . Did you watch today? So many times he just backed off and let Justin make the decision (a player who needs all the help he can get at the moment).

I am not winding up, I have now found more stats to compare against, which makes the question more interesting.

 

However I have a strong opinion, that you cant just blame goals conceded on defenders, the vast majority of people moaning about it, are just forgetting there is a midfield part of the pitch that the other team has to play through first.

[justfoxes]

Ruud has to drop Faes he’s just not reading the game he’s being so FUCHING lazy or he thinks he’s a fuching superstar trying to run the whole length of the pitch and losing the ball, FFS defend like we know you can stop pis sing about on and off the ball defend play for the team the club otherwise you’ll be warming the fuching bench you little SCHITT !!

[Chrysalis]

I am going to leave it as I think Faes is more aggressive and a risk taker which leads to more clearances (potentially less goals conceded but we will never know), but cant deny Okoli hasnt made a direct goal conceding error yet, so that definitely goes in his favour, I think most people here see goal conceding errors as a unforgivable sin, whilst I have a more balanced view, so I dont know really between the two players.  The team overall has conceded less per game when Okoli is on the pitch as well.

 

Still think everyone needs to look at the bigger picture, try not to just use highlights and pay more attention to the game, because right now, teams are managing to just cut straight through our midfield which means the defenders are under more pressure.  Realistically with the amount of play in our 3rd we not going to get much clean sheets.

 

I still rate Vesty, so wouldnt mind seeing Vesty paired up with Okoli.

Edited 1 December 2024 by Chrysalis

[The Horse's Mouth]

Faes is the first one that needs culling from this team 

[honeybradger]

14 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

I am going to leave it as I think Faes is more aggressive and a risk taker which leads to more clearances (potentially less goals conceded but we will never know), but cant deny Okoli hasnt made a direct goal conceding error yet, so that definitely goes in his favour, I think most people here see goal conceding errors as a unforgivable sin, whilst I have a more balanced view, so I dont know really between the two players.  The team overall has conceded less per game when Okoli is on the pitch as well.

 

Still think everyone needs to look at the bigger picture, try not to just use highlights and pay more attention to the game, because right now, teams are managing to just cut straight through our midfield which means the defenders are under more pressure.  Realistically with the amount of play in our 3rd we not going to get much clean sheets.

 

I still rate Vesty, so wouldnt mind seeing Vesty paired up with Okoli.

Yes we also need a better midfield but it works both ways, the defence is also to help support the midfield.

 

What are Ndidi and Soumare supposed to do when Faes dozes off and marks Vestergaard's man like he did for the 3rd goal?

[Tom12345]

5 hours ago, adejo92 said:

Hate to say it but if he starts on Tuesday, il already write off Van Nistelrooy some what.

 

I genuinely don't see how any manager could see Faes play and keep in in the squad.

 

We don't deserve to win or stay up if you don't learn from mistakes like continually playing Faes & Justin.

 

No 2 ways about it, they both need to be dropped. It's Danny Ward levels of bad now.

Have to say, Faes’ mistakes have costed us quite a few points this season and Cooper’s job. We had a few decent games when we lost thanks to Faes’ (or Justin’s) defensive mistakes.

 

As I said before, I thought Cooper wasn’t that bad and he was on to something. But he suffered from these mistakes and also the Enzo effect (ie. having a mountain to climb after the success of last season).

[honeybradger]

4 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

Have to say, Faes’ mistakes have costed us quite a few points this season and Cooper’s job. We had a few decent games when we lost thanks to Faes’ (or Justin’s) defensive mistakes.

 

As I said before, I thought Cooper wasn’t that bad and he was on to something. But he suffered from these mistakes and also the Enzo effect (ie. having a mountain to climb after the success of last season).

Cooper spent over £50mil in the summer. He could have easily replaced Faes if he wanted, Faes being a starter at this point in the season is partly down to him.

[East Langton Fox]

I was there today and it was bad. Faes had another poor game. 
As Matt Piper recently said on Radio Leicester, he thinks he's better than he is. 

[Stadt]

If he had shirt hair he’d get probably 30% less stick. He’s in shit form but he’s a player people love to hate. Although he does have to improve and stop making basic errors, no one should get away with run like he has.

 

That being said we’ve had no midfield since being promoted.When he first joined, imperious, last season he was mostly fantastic. He’s capable but the set up now is guaranteed to get the worst out of him.

 

A game under some Cooper acolyte clown isn’t that damning tbh. If he has 5 clown show performances under RVN then yeah it’s time to bin  

[inckley fox]

15 minutes ago, Stadt said:

If he had shirt hair he’d get probably 30% less stick. He’s in shit form but he’s a player people love to hate. Although he does have to improve and stop making basic errors, no one should get away with run like he has.

 

That being said we’ve had no midfield since being promoted.When he first joined, imperious, last season he was mostly fantastic. He’s capable but the set up now is guaranteed to get the worst out of him.

 

A game under some Cooper acolyte clown isn’t that damning tbh. If he has 5 clown show performances under RVN then yeah it’s time to bin  

I'm a bit confused. He was poor and roundly criticised when we were relegated last time. He's been poor under Rodgers, Smith and Cooper at this level, as well as two different sets of caretakers. We've never been anything other than relegation fodder with Faes among our numbers at this level, and he's consistently been singled out as one of our weakest links. His gaffes would be deadly regardless of whatever system you were playing, and whoever was in charge.

 

It's highly unlikely that any one specific manager is to blame for Wout Faes being substandard.

[Jimmy]

he's 26 and has 25 caps for one of the better national teams but still makes the sort of mistakes you'd drop Ben Nelson for making, that's why he gets stick

[enmac]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

Just found something really interesting, knowing that we have no quality in midfield and our defense is pounded every game, I wondered which defender in the entire EPL has made the most clearances this season so had a look.  Of course people ignore this.  Logically if you getting battered every game, goals will be conceded.

 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_clearance

Interesting. Maybe it's because we're under continuous pressure and he just can't cope with it. 

[Dmitry]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

I am going to leave it as I think Faes is more aggressive and a risk taker which leads to more clearances (potentially less goals conceded but we will never know), but cant deny Okoli hasnt made a direct goal conceding error yet,

This: Goal 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvpEAfTN7fk

[Dmitry]

The club could easily sell him for 20-25 million, based on the name recognition alone. We certainly would not be any worse with his name stricken off the book. 

[The Doctor]

2 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Stats dont lie though, from watching us this season I have felt he was our best defender, constantly getting us out of pickles, but its all ignored if something goes wrong as everyone switches on a highlights of a goal looking for the defender to blame.

 

The defence is getting battered nearly every game because of no midfield.  But people are not paying attention to that part of the game.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal

 

...

[Dahnsouff]

Pointing fingers at individual defenders without any acknowledgement of contributing factors is pointless and a bit dumb, no midfield means constant work for the defence. This does not mean the answer is a new defender, it means the midfield and system needs a serious examination.
 

Although I do agree that Faes has been substandard and is far too often prone to moments of where he lacks attention? Stupidity? Poor instruction?

 

 Feels like most of our problems come from a lack of tactical direction and I hope this is something Ruud can address.  

[Raj]

Poor chrysalis was chatting some complete bo11ox last night trying to defend sideshow bob

Hope hes feeling better today👍🏾