How would you vote in a General Election tomorrow? 9/22

[Spiritwalker]

I just can’t understand how anyone of sound mind would vote for the Tories at this time.

[Samilktray]

Those 7 definitely need banning this forum deserves better 

[Foxdiamond]

At this rate the Tories will have more leaders than Watford managers. 

[Spiritwalker]

12 minutes ago, filthyfox said:

Because they have finally got rid of the nitwit wot woz in charge.  Given me my highest pay rise in 10 years through the tax an NI changes, and because the country is mostly ****ed because of things that were outside of their control.

 

Labour haven't offered a real alternative... as always. 

Has any other Country’s central bank had to intervene to stop their economy going down the toilet?

[filthyfox]

1 minute ago, Spiritwalker said:

Has any other Country’s central bank had to intervene to stop their economy going down the toilet?

I don't think anyone could have predicted the foreign market's reaction....

The quid has been ****ed since wonderful Brexit anyway.

[Apollo]

Tory to annoy people on here 

[dsr-burnley]

54 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

I just can’t understand how anyone of sound mind would vote for the Tories at this time.

Because all Labour have to offer is "not being the Tories".  The Tories put up National Insurance rates, and Labour opposed it.  Then the Tories put National Insurance rates back down, and Labour opposed that as well.  It's what they do - they oppose.  What would happen if they had to decide things on their own?  

 

I'm old enough to remember the economic screaming about Margaret Thatcher's government's budget in 1981.  There was a public letter signed by about 350 economists showing how the government was utterly wrong and leading to economic meltdown, because they were against the prevailing orthodoxy - and they were proved wrong.  Margaret Thatcher's economic policies worked very well, for rich and for poor.  Just because hundreds of economists who have all been taught there is only one "right" answer believe that this budget must be wrong because it isn't what they were taught.

 

The market reaction to the budget is overblown.  The traders already knew that there was going to be a big spend to help with energy bills, and they already knew the Corporation Tax rise would be cancelled, and they already knew the NIC rise would be reversed.  They aren't reacting ot that.  The 1% cut in Income Tax, and 5% cut for high earners, is the only "news" and it's not enough to justify this sort of reaction.  Except that market traders are like economists and like sheep, in that when one bleats they all bleat and when one runs they all run.  They daren't stand out from the crowd because they would lose their jobs if they were wrong.  So when a few influential traders move, the whole market lurches.  It will settle down.

 

What's Labour got to offer?  They aren't going to spend less than the Tories.  They might tax more, but I doubt they would have a lower deficit.  Remember that the tax take of GDP under Truss will still be higher than under Brown's worst excesses; there is a lot of leeway for cutting taxes, if they can only do something sensible about cutting spending. 

[dsr-burnley]

4 hours ago, foxy boxing said:

The whole voting system is skewered towards the major parties, also people may live in a constituency that has either always been Conservative or always been Labour so no matter how you vote it won't matter. There are millions of people of voting age whose vote doesn't matter or irrelevant to the result and that creates voter apathy. The percentage of people who don't vote for whatever reason shows that the system we have needs changing.

Not true.  It takes time to build a base, but if enough people vote over time then the safest constituency can change its spots.  Burnley went through the entire 20th century without electing a Tory MP, but in the 21st century the vote gradually built until it finally happened in 2019.  (Not saying it will happen again, mind!) But if you want your constituency to go against type then you need to vote in the early, hopeless elections if only to work up the vote to where other people will start to believe in it.

 

(In Scotland in 1951, the popular vote was more than 50% Conservative.  Like I said, things change over time.)

Edited 28 September 2022 by dsr-burnley

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, Spiritwalker said:

Has any other Country’s central bank had to intervene to stop their economy going down the toilet?

Italy's, obviously.  Well, their central bank is the European Central Bank and they have put in vast loans, and overthrown at least one democratically elected government as their price.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

Because all Labour have to offer is "not being the Tories"

This is actually a major selling point. 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

Because all Labour have to offer is "not being the Tories".  The Tories put up National Insurance rates, and Labour opposed it.  Then the Tories put National Insurance rates back down, and Labour opposed that as well.  It's what they do - they oppose.  What would happen if they had to decide things on their own?  

 

I'm old enough to remember the economic screaming about Margaret Thatcher's government's budget in 1981.  There was a public letter signed by about 350 economists showing how the government was utterly wrong and leading to economic meltdown, because they were against the prevailing orthodoxy - and they were proved wrong.  Margaret Thatcher's economic policies worked very well, for rich and for poor.  Just because hundreds of economists who have all been taught there is only one "right" answer believe that this budget must be wrong because it isn't what they were taught.

 

The market reaction to the budget is overblown.  The traders already knew that there was going to be a big spend to help with energy bills, and they already knew the Corporation Tax rise would be cancelled, and they already knew the NIC rise would be reversed.  They aren't reacting ot that.  The 1% cut in Income Tax, and 5% cut for high earners, is the only "news" and it's not enough to justify this sort of reaction.  Except that market traders are like economists and like sheep, in that when one bleats they all bleat and when one runs they all run.  They daren't stand out from the crowd because they would lose their jobs if they were wrong.  So when a few influential traders move, the whole market lurches.  It will settle down.

 

What's Labour got to offer?  They aren't going to spend less than the Tories.  They might tax more, but I doubt they would have a lower deficit.  Remember that the tax take of GDP under Truss will still be higher than under Brown's worst excesses; there is a lot of leeway for cutting taxes, if they can only do something sensible about cutting spending. 

....and energy policy?

[Leicesterpool]

Liz Truss could be in the shortest spell of Prime Minster reign to date, honestly I'm no huge fan of Labour felt let down by them in the past but happily take them over tory gourvement right now who are stinking the place out. With labour likely to return I don't see the torie's making a return for a long time, the whole party is utter turnmoil.

Edited 29 September 2022 by Leicesterpool

[Tommy Fresh]

3 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

Because all Labour have to offer is "not being the Tories".  The Tories put up National Insurance rates, and Labour opposed it.  Then the Tories put National Insurance rates back down, and Labour opposed that as well.  It's what they do - they oppose.  What would happen if they had to decide things on their own?  

 

I'm old enough to remember the economic screaming about Margaret Thatcher's government's budget in 1981.  There was a public letter signed by about 350 economists showing how the government was utterly wrong and leading to economic meltdown, because they were against the prevailing orthodoxy - and they were proved wrong.  Margaret Thatcher's economic policies worked very well, for rich and for poor.  Just because hundreds of economists who have all been taught there is only one "right" answer believe that this budget must be wrong because it isn't what they were taught.

 

The market reaction to the budget is overblown.  The traders already knew that there was going to be a big spend to help with energy bills, and they already knew the Corporation Tax rise would be cancelled, and they already knew the NIC rise would be reversed.  They aren't reacting ot that.  The 1% cut in Income Tax, and 5% cut for high earners, is the only "news" and it's not enough to justify this sort of reaction.  Except that market traders are like economists and like sheep, in that when one bleats they all bleat and when one runs they all run.  They daren't stand out from the crowd because they would lose their jobs if they were wrong.  So when a few influential traders move, the whole market lurches.  It will settle down.

 

What's Labour got to offer?  They aren't going to spend less than the Tories.  They might tax more, but I doubt they would have a lower deficit.  Remember that the tax take of GDP under Truss will still be higher than under Brown's worst excesses; there is a lot of leeway for cutting taxes, if they can only do something sensible about cutting spending. 

You're going to be very disappointed when Labour win the next General Election mate. Also you're very much ignoring the years of sh**

[marbles]

8 hours ago, Samilktray said:

Those 7 definitely need banning this forum deserves better 

Yes - get rid of opposing viewpoints immediately!!!

 

Did fingers in ears work for you as a child?

[Captain...]

12 hours ago, The People's Hero said:

Errr .... yes it is. Name me a good, honest, hard-working, enterprising, proficient and fit-for-purpose politician who places public good ahead of their own interests/agenda.

 

Anyway, I suspect this will be my last post here. Exactly the sort of thread I get banned in for telling people uncomfortable truths and they get upset and spiteful; so I'M OUT.

 

PEACE. ENJOY !

This is exactly why you should vote for labour, they are promising electoral reform including a system of proportional representation. This will lead to new parties and a vote that counts. 

[The People's Hero]

7 minutes ago, Captain... said:

This is exactly why you should vote for labour, they are promising electoral reform including a system of proportional representation. This will lead to new parties and a vote that counts. 

In an ideal world yes

 

But I’ve seen what happens to Labour promises before. 

[filthyfox]

17 minutes ago, Captain... said:

This is exactly why you should vote for labour, they are promising electoral reform including a system of proportional representation. This will lead to new parties and a vote that counts. 

Oh... are they promising PR????   That makes a difference to me.

I will believe it when I see it in black and white, in a manifesto.

[Samilktray]

44 minutes ago, marbles said:

Yes - get rid of opposing viewpoints immediately!!!

 

Did fingers in ears work for you as a child?

Mods

[Sampson]

32 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

In an ideal world yes

 

But I’ve seen what happens to Labour promises before. 

So you’re judging a party based on their leaders from at least 12 years ago? Virtually none of whom are still MPs?
 

“I don’t want Leicester to win vs Forest, because I watched them 12 and Joe Mattock was a lazy mercenary who didn’t care”.

 

And you’re the one who has the gall to take the moral high ground claiming you’re telling people “uncomfortable truths” by trying to say a party who haven’t been in power for over a decade are just as bad as the one who’ve been running the country into the ground for years. And you’ve decided flat out they’re not going to do any policies in their manifesto, because their leaders broke promises a generation ago?

 

ok buddy…

Edited 29 September 2022 by Sampson

[Fazzer 7]

Unsurprisingly I couldn’t ever vote labour.   Right now I’d struggle to vote Conservative which I’ve always done. Honestly if there was a snap election I’d either not vote or go off wall, someone like Reform uk.  

Edited 29 September 2022 by Fazzer 7

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Unsurprisingly I couldn’t ever vote labour.   Right now I’d struggle to vote Conservative which I’ve always done. Honestly if there was a snap election I’d either not vote or go off wall, someone like Reform uk.  

May I ask why? Not having a go as I am not very different, largely due to  familial indoctrination probably  

 

Haven`t voted Conservative for the last three GE, having favoured a sadly wasted vote for Green, but voting Labour was never likely then, more a possiblity now than ever, but even then...

[Captain...]

53 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

In an ideal world yes

 

But I’ve seen what happens to Labour promises before. 

 

42 minutes ago, filthyfox said:

Oh... are they promising PR????   That makes a difference to me.

I will believe it when I see it in black and white, in a manifesto.

They announced it at their conference. 

 

Actually they didn't quite:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/26/labour-delegates-back-motion-calling-on-party-to-back-pr

 

Maybe not, party members overwhelming want it, but Starmer set to ignore those pleas.

[filthyfox]

Let's say I am a swing voter... but I live in true blue country.

PR is what is right and fair 

[foxes1988]

Voted Greens last 2 elections.  Would currently vote Labour providing their manifest isn't a disaster although after the last 12 years would be unlikely it would bad enough to put me off i reckon.

 

If they adopted PR I would vote for them indefinitely until PR happened barring any monumental shifts in ideology.

Edited 29 September 2022 by foxes1988

[filthyfox]

1 minute ago, foxes1988 said:

Voted Greens last 2 elections.  Would currently vote Labour providing their manifest isn't a disaster although after the last 12 years would be unlikely it would bad enough to put me off i reckon.

 

If they adopted PR as I would vote for them indefinitely barring any monumental shifts in ideology.

Greens are hard republicans,  they can go forth and hopefully  not multiply