World Cup General Chit Chat

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

They should do draws for the knockout stage. Team x being unable to meet team y until the final, or unable to both get to the final, is rubbish. Seeded draws for the last 16, so group winners play a second place, then just balls in a hat from then on. It'd be way better; you could suddenly get Brazil v Argentina or France v Spain in the quarter finals. Or Morocco v Japan and then one of them is in the semi final and anything could happen.

[Aus Fox]

7 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

They should do draws for the knockout stage. Team x being unable to meet team y until the final, or unable to both get to the final, is rubbish. Seeded draws for the last 16, so group winners play a second place, then just balls in a hat from then on. It'd be way better; you could suddenly get Brazil v Argentina or France v Spain in the quarter finals. Or Morocco v Japan and then one of them is in the semi final and anything could happen.

There isn’t enough time to do anything like that, teams and supporters need to know where and when they are playing. 
teams also need to be given adequate time to recover and prepare for the next game.

If there was a draw like the Fa Cup you’d need to wait until the games have been played. The group stage finishes today and the next round starts tomorrow.

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[StanSP]

Just now, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

What a petty thing to do

 

Proper child. 

[Super_horns]

England with the best record of those going through if Brazil don’t win ?

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

2 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

There isn’t enough time to do anything like that, teams and supporters need to know where and when they are playing. 
teams also need to be given adequate time to recover and prepare for the next game.

If there was a draw like the Fa Cup you’d need to wait until the games have been played. The group stage finishes today and the next round starts tomorrow.

I'm not saying it would be easy, or even practical, just that it would be better.

[Super_horns]

Looks like French TV kind of went to another programme before VAR ruled out their goal the other day.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/z8xhra/french_main_tv_channel_tf1_cuts_tunisia_france/

[Nalis]

10 hours ago, Super_horns said:

England with the best record of those going through if Brazil don’t win ?

Was about to post the same thing. Of course there were dead rubbers for the likes Brazil, France and Portugal but the fact still stands.

 

Also, has there been a 24 or 32 team world cup before where no team has won all 3 group games?

 

[Super_horns]

1 hour ago, Nalis said:

Was about to post the same thing. Of course there were dead rubbers for the likes Brazil, France and Portugal but the fact still stands.

 

Also, has there been a 24 or 32 team world cup before where no team has won all 3 group games?

 

First time since 1994 apparently. 

[st albans fox]

I don’t recall so many final group games being so exciting before …. Proper jeopardy in quite a few games 

[Nalis]

45 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I don’t recall so many final group games being so exciting before …. Proper jeopardy in quite a few games 

3 teams groups are going to ruin all of that fun

[Finnegan]

15 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Because it did exactly what it should, stop diving twats like him getting pens. Fabulous. 

[st albans fox]

11 minutes ago, Nalis said:

3 teams groups are going to ruin all of that fun

The word yesterday was that fifa were going to do 12 groups of 4 rather than 16 groups of 3 

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

15 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Does anyone like VAR? Certainly no one who likes football.

 

And I don't know, people moan if players don't look upset enough when they lose, then people moan when players look like they actually do give a sh*t. There's no pleasing FT!

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

Does anyone like VAR? Certainly no one who likes football.

 

And I don't know, people moan if players don't look upset enough when they lose, then people moan when players look like they actually do give a sh*t. There's no pleasing FT!

 

I'm really pro technology. I like more of VAR than I dislike. 

 

I see it as essential and I hope it stays. 

 

But I do think it's got a lot of flaws, is poorly used and could be improved in a LOT of ways. 

 

I think a big part of the anti VAR sentiment is a result of manufactured outrage from broadcasters riling people up and poor transparency. 

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm really pro technology. I like more of VAR than I dislike. 

 

I see it as essential and I hope it stays. 

 

But I do think it's got a lot of flaws, is poorly used and could be improved in a LOT of ways. 

 

I think a big part of the anti VAR sentiment is a result of manufactured outrage from broadcasters riling people up and poor transparency. 

Spot on.

 

There's enough good in this particular piece of tech that improvement is the solution, not Luddite abandonment for some ethereal idea of a "romantic game".

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

But var is proper crap and for me is literally ruining football. It's a flowing game and taking 6 minutes to make a decision has ruined that aspect of it. The main reason I like football is when England or Leicester score a goal I go Bananas. Now I don't because ooh was he offside, did that hit his arm, will VAR find a miniscule infringement in the game in the last 60 seconds that mean this goal will be ruled out? How long has var been about now? 5 years, this is the third major tournament its been used at? By far the worst implementation since its inception at a major tournament. That penalty where it hit the blokes hand behind him, the pen on Messi where his face was brushed. Its literally ruining my enjoyment of football at its core of feeling the joy of scoring a goal, and destroying many other aspects of the game as well. If that makes me a hopeful romantic, or anti technology, or being hoodwinked by the media then so be it. But var is awful. 

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

10 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

I think a big part of the anti VAR sentiment is a result of manufactured outrage from broadcasters riling people up and poor transparency.

I'm not sure people need much help getting riled up; the making of decisions which are just plain wrong does that well enough.

But not as well as the lack of transparency; I agree with you about that. Why they don't do it more like rugby I really don't understand. It would stop most of the annoyance with it if they said 'the on-field decision is a goal' (or offside, or a penalty, or whatever), 'is there a clear reason to overturn that?' and then the ref and the VAR looked at the replay and we could hear them talk about it before agreeing a decision. And if there isn't a clear reason to overturn an on-field decision then it isn't overturned.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

But var is proper crap and for me is literally ruining football. It's a flowing game and taking 6 minutes to make a decision has ruined that aspect of it. The main reason I like football is when England or Leicester score a goal I go Bananas. Now I don't because ooh was he offside, did that hit his arm, will VAR find a miniscule infringement in the game in the last 60 seconds that mean this goal will be ruled out? How long has var been about now? 5 years, this is the third major tournament its been used at? By far the worst implementation since its inception at a major tournament. That penalty where it hit the blokes hand behind him, the pen on Messi where his face was brushed. Its literally ruining my enjoyment of football at its core of feeling the joy of scoring a goal, and destroying many other aspects of the game as well. If that makes me a hopeful romantic, or anti technology, or being hoodwinked by the media then so be it. But var is awful. 

If I might ask, would you accept improvements in the system, or would the only acceptable solution in your eyes be removing VAR entirely and going back to the pre-2018 conditions?

 

I ask out of genuine curiosity because I want to know more about someone who may view the game so differently to me.

 

1 minute ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

I'm not sure people need much help getting riled up; the making of decisions which are just plain wrong does that well enough.

But not as well as the lack of transparency; I agree with you about that. Why they don't do it more like rugby I really don't understand. It would stop most of the annoyance with it if they said 'the on-field decision is a goal' (or offside, or a penalty, or whatever), 'is there a clear reason to overturn that?' and then the ref and the VAR looked at the replay and we could hear them talk about it before agreeing a decision. And if there isn't a clear reason to overturn an on-field decision then it isn't overturned.

I've said it before and I think Finn has too: one of the changes has to be to mic the refs and get a direct feed to what they are saying to the VAR ref and vice versa. I have no idea why they don't do this already when they do in practically every other sport that uses such systems.

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I've said it before and I think Finn has too: one of the changes has to be to mic the refs and get a direct feed to what they are saying to the VAR ref and vice versa. I have no idea why they don't do this already when they do in practically every other sport that uses such systems.

Judging by a couple of decisions at the World Cup, maybe it's because they're worried it would become obvious that some refs don't actually know the laws of the game...

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

Judging by a couple of decisions at the World Cup, maybe it's because they're worried it would become obvious that some refs don't actually know the laws of the game...

If that's the case (and it's possible), then I would hope that more people would value them coming clean about such things and making the refs fit for purpose in the current system rather than continuing to cover up such incompetence.

[StanSP]

I reckon the use and speed of SAOT has swayed people towards VAR... 

[Super_horns]

Jesus and Alex Telles out of the World Cup.

 

 

It must make these on pitch officials feel a bit awkward and less confident in themselves having to get called over to the scream basically because they have been told something is wrong.

Might be human nature to side with 4 blokes or ladies telling them where they've made an error in their eyes.

We've seen some strange penalty decisions and apparently FIFA said the Messi "foul" v Poland was the right call somehow.

Edited 3 December 2022 by Super_horns

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

52 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

If I might ask, would you accept improvements in the system, or would the only acceptable solution in your eyes be removing VAR entirely and going back to the pre-2018 conditions?

 

I ask out of genuine curiosity because I want to know more about someone who may view the game so differently to me.

 

I've said it before and I think Finn has too: one of the changes has to be to mic the refs and get a direct feed to what they are saying to the VAR ref and vice versa. I have no idea why they don't do this already when they do in practically every other sport that uses such systems.

There are so many improvements needed, just cutting out getting loads of stuff wrong would be a good start. The crux of it is if correct decisions on field by 1 person are being overturned by 7 people who don't seem to overly know what they're doing... Then what's a benefit there? You go over to the monitor as a guide? I believe in hundreds of instances an official has stuck with their original decision once (prem and international that I am aware of, sure its more but not that I've seen) so much needs doing away with. I love the nfl, that's a very, very stop start game and the var just works 99% of the time, looks a dubious call on the pitch but is there anything irrefutable to overturn the decision? Yes, then it's overturned, no? Then it's not. My other main gripe with it is it was meant to get rid of the perceived big team bias and if anything its made me think that was never really that much of a thing to it's definitely a thing and it's bad. I wasn't someone who was against it when it came in but after 5 years of it slowly deteriorating football as something I enjoy watching I'd be equally as happy for it to be done away with or done properly but what evidence is there that it will actually be done properly in the near future? Like I say some of the clearly incorrect uses of the technology at this tournament just has me thinking it's regressing in terms of its use and implementation. I just think it's a disaster. 

[whoareyaaa]

the problem is not VAR its the people using it