The mistakes of Brendan Rodgers/King Power - What are they and what can we learn?

[HarryDee8]

Don't leave yourself open at the back, so you can get Rodgered😅

[Gamble92]

1 hour ago, inckley fox said:

It looked fine to me too, but we don't judge deals on whether they looked fine to me (thank god), with my incredibly limited knowledge of the situation, at the time. By that measure we'd still be saying that the likes of Elliott and Vardy were cases of having overspent.

O'Neill sorted out the old guard and I think Elliott was still on 30k a week when we dropped into Division One. 

 

I don't mind that though, like I don't with Vardy. Far worse cases (like Bertrand) of money wasted on players than having legends of the club still in the dressing room. Not that it's helping much at the minute.

[Clever Fox]

I think a lot of decisions have been made on the fly instead of being well thought out.

We need to set the wage budget before pre season, based on what we can afford.

Next season the wage budget should be back around 100 mil.

Then if we want to pay someone more providing it success led.

Lg Pos, wins, draws , points.etc.

And an end of season bonus for top 6 finishes.

I'd do similar with the Coaches. Instead of lumping out big contracts. 

If they all want the big money they should earn it.

[cityfanlee23]

6 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Is there anyway I can get this article without signing up to the Athletic?

I click on it but are asked to sign up 

I’m not sure mate, I’m not a member of the Athletic either I took the quote from the other thread someone made specifically about that topic, but I think there are some really cheap offers online where you can join for £1 or something? Then cancel. But I think the content they produce seems well worth it as many of the top analysis channels like Tifo on YouTube use The Athletic for their videos which are always really detailed. 
 

sorry I couldn’t help mate 👍

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 minute ago, cityfanlee23 said:

I’m not sure mate, I’m not a member of the Athletic either I took the quote from the other thread someone made specifically about that topic, but I think there are some really cheap offers online where you can join for £1 or something? Then cancel. But I think the content they produce seems well worth it as many of the top analysis channels like Tifo on YouTube use The Athletic for their videos which are always really detailed. 
 

sorry I couldn’t help mate 👍

Ok Lee - thanks 

[honeybradger]

If a player plays well, give them a chance.

 

Iheanacho scoring 14 goals in 20 PL starts in the second half of the season and scoring in the round of 16, quarter final and semi final of the FA cup then getting dropped at the start of the following season is such a terrible decision. It's almost as if no matter how well he played he would never be able to convince Rodgers to trust him.

 

Leading on from this, Rodgers in general is such an inflexible manager when it comes to changing his approach, if he opened himself up to accepting and learning from his mistakes he would be a much better manager.

[Steve Earle]

Still the OP asked a good question. Kind of went down hill from there...

[Mike Oxlong]

King Power should learn that you can only go so far with the Bob Marley approach to managing a football club 

 

 

[Guy]

21 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

led directly or indirectly to us going from being a well run, "model club" in world football in 2015/16, to an absolute mess just 7 years later.

Yes, something of an ironic parallel in a way that in 7 years in took us to get from being League One Champions to Champions Of England  - to arguably heading back in that downwardly direction just.....7 years later! Hopefully not but just a sobering thought for the time being.....Smith and Shakey's time to come permittimg of course!

[splinterdream]

Managers and players, especially players need rotating, having no one coming in on a window is stupid. 
 

Have some ground rules about contract negotiations, stop giving contracts for loyalty.

 

Dont let 1st team players walk without making damn well sure you have a replacement that’s good enough.

 

[Guy]

19 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

Managers and players, especially players need rotating, having no one coming in on a window is stupid. 
 

Have some ground rules about contract negotiations, stop giving contracts for loyalty.

 

Dont let 1st team players walk without making damn well sure you have a replacement that’s good enough.

 

Yep, letting Schmeichel leave and then replacing him in goal with Ward for his pateince and loyalty as a no.2 for five years, ahead of a much better keeper in Iversen (despite Ward then being found out to not be good enough at this level), encapsulates that particular mistake perfectly for me....

Edited 13 April 2023 by Guy

[Claudio Fannieri]

Since Rodgers came in, it would appear too many decisions have been made with heart rather than head or emotion over business sense. 
 

It started with the massive increase in contract length and salary for Rodgers at a time when we were flying, seemed sensible at the time, but in reality became a millstone. 
 

Also over time Rodgers was able to gain too much influence and control over critical departments of the club that previously were lauded for being so well run, over time we broke our recruitment & business model and our medical department. Again emotional decisions made to keep him happy and engaged. 
 

The refusal to not cash in on some of our more valuable assets after the FA Cup success and in fact digging in our heels to prevent Rodgers going to Spurs, again these have royally bitten us on the arse. 
 

Over the last 4 years we have stepped away from what has made us successful, I am not advocating we lie down and be walked all over but we need to get back to being clever, knowing when to cash in on an asset or let one move on whilst maximising the fee we generate, whether that is a player or a manager we can no longer make decisions with the heart rather than head. 
 

I really hope we start to see the club making sensible business and football decisions moving forward. 

[Thequickbrownfox]

I think Alan Partridge summed up Rodgers reign of two halves - "Idea for a programme called "Free Spirits." No, actually change that to "Bad Attitude."

[FoxTimmy2]

While Rodgers may be receiving rightful criticism, I'm not entirely convinced by Stowell's performance either. It's worth noting that during Stowell's tenure with Schmeichel as the goalkeeper, I remember Kasper came to us quality from the get-go, which may have made Stowell's job relatively easy with less work to do over the decade. He certainly didn't improve on Schmeichel's flapping at crosses. And as far as Ward goes, where do I even begin...

[TheStig]

1 hour ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

Since Rodgers came in, it would appear too many decisions have been made with heart rather than head or emotion over business sense. 
 

It started with the massive increase in contract length and salary for Rodgers at a time when we were flying, seemed sensible at the time, but in reality became a millstone. 
 

Also over time Rodgers was able to gain too much influence and control over critical departments of the club that previously were lauded for being so well run, over time we broke our recruitment & business model and our medical department. Again emotional decisions made to keep him happy and engaged. 
 

The refusal to not cash in on some of our more valuable assets after the FA Cup success and in fact digging in our heels to prevent Rodgers going to Spurs, again these have royally bitten us on the arse. 
 

Over the last 4 years we have stepped away from what has made us successful, I am not advocating we lie down and be walked all over but we need to get back to being clever, knowing when to cash in on an asset or let one move on whilst maximising the fee we generate, whether that is a player or a manager we can no longer make decisions with the heart rather than head. 
 

I really hope we start to see the club making sensible business and football decisions moving forward. 

To whom did Rodgers refer? Top or Whelan?? Anyhow management is getting off way to leniently. They have not taken resposibility and left it all to "Mr. Know All" - Its pretty unbelievable that this development was allowed to go on for at least 18 months

[Vestan Pance]

The club started to gamble with money rather than backing itself and it's staff to stick to a model that was working. We took the easy option by paying existing players/manager more money and handing out longer contracts instead of taking the difficult route of replacing players/manager through quality scouting and shear hard work. To be a successful self sustainable club you need a quick turnover of players that you can improve then sell on for maximum profit, then invest again. We became lazy!

 

One of the most disappointing aspects for me is the way the club has been so liberal with money but rarely has any luxury been extended to the supporters, there has been zero improvement to facilities during this crazy spending spree.

 

 

[sacreblueits442]

5 hours ago, FoxTimmy2 said:

While Rodgers may be receiving rightful criticism, I'm not entirely convinced by Stowell's performance either. It's worth noting that during Stowell's tenure with Schmeichel as the goalkeeper, I remember Kasper came to us quality from the get-go, which may have made Stowell's job relatively easy with less work to do over the decade. He certainly didn't improve on Schmeichel's flapping at crosses. And as far as Ward goes, where do I even begin...

.. I  think you need to read up on the remarks from Leeds supporters regarding Schmeichel leaving them!!!

  Leeds got rid of him because they did not believe he was up to the level that they wanted. We obviously spotted good qualities in him and signed him up.

 Schmeichel when he first came was prone to punching the ball and later stayed on his line, no doubt due to our move to zonal marking. When you have a keeper not playing for all this time (Danny Ward), no wonder he does not develop on the same trajectory as keepers out there plying their trade.

  Not sure why Stowell is getting so much flak.

Edited 13 April 2023 by sacreblueits442
Spelling error.

[eblair]

On 12/04/2023 at 23:03, smudgerfox said:

It shouldn’t need saying but the club needs to adopt a much more hard-headed business approach rather than that of a charity for chums it has come to resemble. Just a few but sadly not exhaustive list of examples 

 

Allowing the appointment of Congerton 

Allowing the departure of Rennie 

offering veterans contracts way beyond their useful life (Vardy, Albrighton, Morgan, Evans) 

offering new or extended contracts to the likes of Hirst and  Choudhury 

Retaining mediocrities like Ward, Sadler and Stowell who simply are not good enough at PL level 

Signing Vestergaard (mate of Kasper) , Bennett and Bertrand (ex colleagues. Of Brendan) 

Having a recruitment head on gardening leave in potentially transformative transfer window 

Failing to register a £30-million new signing on time rendering him unable th play for five months 

Signing new players then playing them in a different position to the one they were playing when you decided to sign them in the first place 

Having no succession plan for a manager whose sacking has been inevitable for at least 14 months 

And failing to secure a Champions League place (twice) by failing to invest in January window when the team only needed a couple of classy reinforcements (see Ryan Bennett) to maintain momentum 

 

Sadly I could go on 

 

 

Stowell and Sadler getting unfair pelters. Ones a GK coach the other one analyst. They are nowhere near any of our problems. Cannot polish a turd inWard

[SixtiesFox]

23 hours ago, HarryDee8 said:

Don't leave yourself open at the back, so you can get Rodgered😅

Brilliant! Literally and metaphorically. 

[smudgerfox]

1 hour ago, eblair said:

Stowell and Sadler getting unfair pelters. Ones a GK coach the other one analyst. They are nowhere near any of our problems. Cannot polish a turd inWard

I did wonder about including Stowell and Sadler and interesting you also include Ward because I would make a similar argument about him.

 

This is what I would say about S and S. When Brendan left, two coaches left with him. Kolo Toure had already left. That’s four coaches gone. Yet we still have two left. And we have a set piece coach who’s name hasn’t been mentioned.,so that’s seven coaches. What in hells name are they all doing? What have they been doing? And if we accept that not one of them has been able to contribute significantly to stopping an 18 month rot - except maybe the set piece guy - then how is their value being evaluated? And why aren’t one or two of them being prepared to step up in an emergency? And that’s before we get to the coaches in the junior sides whose performance is similarly terrible who also ought to be thinking they might be called to coach the first team one day. Someone at the club should be noticing that we have seven coaches devoted to the first team - yet not one of the other six can be relied upon to step up in Brendan’s absence.

 

Ward is similar. He has been the number 2 for how long? 3 seasons? We have umpteen  junior keepers. The Polish guy at Hartlepool, the  guy we signed from Hartlepool (Brad someone?) , plus Iversen. We have a dedicated goalkeeper coach. Surely if there’s any point in this bank of keepers and a dedicated coach it’s to ensure that we have a reliable succession plan should the number one be injured/ill/transferred. They’ve had plenty of time to plan so it’s utterly unforgivable that the succession was handled so poorly. It was interesting that when S and S were installed, everyone mentioned Stowell’s loyalty and what a great guy he is. No-one said he was a great coach. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 April 2023 by smudgerfox

[inckley fox]

11 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

I did wonder about including Stowell and Sadler and interesting you also include Ward because I would make a similar argument about him.

 

This is what I would say about S and S. When Brendan left, two coaches left with him. Kolo Toure had already left. That’s four coaches gone. Yet we still have two left. And we have a set piece coach who’s name hasn’t been mentioned.,so that’s seven coaches. What in hells name are they all doing? What have they been doing? And if we accept that not one of them has been able to contribute significantly to stopping an 18 month rot - except maybe the set piece guy - then how is their value being evaluated? And why aren’t one or two of them being prepared to step up in an emergency? And that’s before we get to the coaches in the junior sides whose performance is similarly terrible who also ought to be thinking they might be called to coach the first team one day. Someone at the club should be noticing that we have seven coaches devoted to the first team - yet not one of the other six can be relied upon to step up in Brendan’s absence.

 

Ward is similar. He has been the number 2 for how long? 3 seasons? We have umpteen  junior keepers. The Polish guy at Hartlepool, the  guy we signed from Hartlepool (Brad someone?) , plus Iversen. We have a dedicated goalkeeper coach. Surely if there’s any point in this bank of keepers and a dedicated coach it’s to ensure that we have a reliable succession plan should the number one be injured/ill/transferred. They’ve had plenty of time to plan so it’s utterly unforgivable that the succession was handled so poorly. It was interesting that when S and S were installed, everyone mentioned Stowell’s loyalty and what a great guy he is. No-one said he was a great coach. 

 

 

 

 

None of us know enough about the inner workings of the club to say what exactly the jobs of individual coaches have been. I know Stowell has apparently done a reasonable job in the past when he's had to step up between regimes, and less so this time. I have little else to go on. Trying to read into the subtext of media praise for Stowell, much like the chap who was going on about his warm-up routine, doesn't enlighten us a great deal.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, he's been at the club, on-off, since Levein. So yes, that's service, and at a time when so many are worrying that the club has lost its identity, I'd have thought rewarding service rather than clearing the decks of any remnant of the past was wise. There's a bit of an appetite for this 'clean slate' approach on here right now, and I'm not sure people have thought it through all that well.

 

Is he any good at his job? How could we possibly know? Other than surmising that the fact that he's kept his job for that length of time, coaching a world class goalkeeper who achieved more success with us than any other for most of it, suggests he's not all that bad. I mean, we won the league with this guy in post. We had the meanest defence in the league, and one of the best at set pieces, so it seems logical that when the tables turn under new management he shouldn't be looked on as being especially crucial to the fact. He certainly can't be blamed for poor planning in the Kasper 'succession' - that never has been and never will be a goalkeeping coach's remit. And I wouldn't knock him too much for screwing up as co-caretaker, which is the real reason for people currently having it in for him (other than running out of others to blame), because he's not meant to be a manager.

 

It just seems to me that when the chips are down, some of us get a bit too desperate for a magical, and usually glaringly straightforward, solution. 'Maybe this guy, who hasn't played for six months because he was demonstrably rubbish, is our saviour.' 'Maybe this individual - the keeper, the left back, the assistant, a goalkeeping coach, the chief analyst, the psychologist - maybe THEY are to blame.' And in all likelihood, no they're not.

[smudgerfox]

10 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

 

It just seems to me that when the chips are down, some of us get a bit too desperate for a magical, and usually glaringly straightforward, solution. 'Maybe this guy, who hasn't played for six months because he was demonstrably rubbish, is our saviour.' 'Maybe this individual - the keeper, the left back, the assistant, a goalkeeping coach, the chief analyst, the psychologist - maybe THEY are to blame.' And in all likelihood, no they're not.

What you say may be true but after the farce of the last 18 months or so - it really is time to reappraise what individuals are bringing to the party. If as you say, Stowell can’t be expected to advise and be influential in the decision about replacing Kasper then I really would question his worth. A coach’s main role is to improve the players - but surely he’d intervene to stop the club making a strategic or tactical error of this magnitude….

[LFox99]

[inckley fox]

18 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

What you say may be true but after the farce of the last 18 months or so - it really is time to reappraise what individuals are bringing to the party. If as you say, Stowell can’t be expected to advise and be influential in the decision about replacing Kasper then I really would question his worth. A coach’s main role is to improve the players - but surely he’d intervene to stop the club making a strategic or tactical error of this magnitude….

I mean, he can't - he's not the manager! If you had even a defensive coach - especially if he was someone who hadn't been brought in as part of your team - who started saying 'look, I need to be involved in transfer strategy because you're getting things wrong', you'd feel like he was overstepping the mark. Now, we have no idea whether Stowell ever did have his tuppence worth - but it'd be extraordinary if a manager and club were swayed by someone in that role to that extent.

 

I honestly don't believe that any kind of culling of our club staff - none of which will have had any significant impact one way or another on the key things that went wrong over recent years, and many of which will have offered loyal service, and served in the most successful periods in our history - will achieve anything other than adding to the sense of lost identity, dejection and detachment.

Edited 14 April 2023 by inckley fox

[oxford blue]

Did BR keep Stowell too long? Certainly loyal to the club but as a goalkeeping coach is his input noticeable? For a long time Kasper's weaknesses remained the same. Iversen is a  very good shot stopper and better than KS in corners and other aspects in 6 yard area.  However, distribution has always been a problem and stopped him getting a regular first team spot until recently. This has not improved since he came here. I would have thought this would be one of the easier techniques to improve - although does this require a goalkeeping coach younger than MS. I think he has been at club 18 years; is there evidence in improvement in goalkeepers?