The mistakes of Brendan Rodgers/King Power - What are they and what can we learn?

[Shane]

Promote our best youth talents.

 

I am confident Braybrooke and Alves were ready to be promoted to the first team squad,  especially when their competition for places was Soumare, Praet, Perez, etc. Also youngsters of their quality often go up a level when you surround them with PL quality players.

 

They should have been trusted with more minutes in the cup at the very least, which was a good opportunity to ease them into mens football.

[Guest Mee-9]

There are so many. 

 

I think the running down of Tielemans and Soyuncu's contracts is criminal, and these should have both been sold with money re-invested in the squad. 

 

We've thrown away £100m. 

[Chelmofox]

38 minutes ago, Shane said:

Promote our best youth talents.

 

I am confident Braybrooke and Alves were ready to be promoted to the first team squad,  especially when their competition for places was Soumare, Praet, Perez, etc. Also youngsters of their quality often go up a level when you surround them with PL quality players.

 

They should have been trusted with more minutes in the cup at the very least, which was a good opportunity to ease them into mens football.

No way was Alves ready. Braybrooke was definitely approaching it. 

[Oxfordfox83]

11 hours ago, MancFox24 said:

I've said this loads of times on this forum, but Rodgers was asked early in the season when he was told there was no money available for new transfers and he said not until he got back for pre season. Nobody from the club has ever disputed this as far as I'm aware. The fact that wasn't communicated earlier was ridiculous. I think he may have walked or at least looked for other opportunities had he known. Instead the negativity was allowed to set in and it's carried on throughout the season. 

I don’t buy this. If Rodgers hadn’t got his transfer plans in over the summer and was just thinking about things in pre-season, he was even worse than we thought. 
 

Maybe he thought ‘no money’ was a negotiation, but there’s no way you turn up in August, go “Top, sign me Kevin De Bruyne” and he says “sorry pal, you have £0” and that’s some sort of surprise…

[yorkie1999]

3 hours ago, filthyfox said:

One word.... RUDKIN

 

GET RID!

He has lived a bit of a charmed existance, to go from youth team manager to being on the board and head of recruitment takes some serious brown nosing if you haven't got any sort of pedigree in football. How is he actually qualified to direct this football club? He's never been anywhere else!

[mozartfox]

Letting Rogers and Rudders have too much control.

 

The signing of the Southampton Two. Any person at the Club that was in any where near these transfer, needs firing.  I do not think a single FT Member would have made such a obvious fuch- up.  That leads me to think that Top trusted people he thought knew what they were doing. 

 

In his position I would hunt down the decision makers here.

[MancFox24]

1 hour ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

I don’t buy this. If Rodgers hadn’t got his transfer plans in over the summer and was just thinking about things in pre-season, he was even worse than we thought. 
 

Maybe he thought ‘no money’ was a negotiation, but there’s no way you turn up in August, go “Top, sign me Kevin De Bruyne” and he says “sorry pal, you have £0” and that’s some sort of surprise…

I don't think that's the way a football club runs. Rodgers was given alot of power at the club and I agree that was a mistake but I find it really hard to believe he had anything to do with the finances. And this is where I disagree alot with those who are mainly blaming Rodgers. He would have had had nothing to do with the price we paid for a player or the contract negotiations. I agree there were some dud signings in there and he needs to take some of the blame for that, but show me a club who doesn't make a few bad signings. The difference is that the contracts reflect the value of the player so if they do turn out to be poor signings you can cut your losses and get rid. We haven't been able to do that because we were handing out contracts as if we were paying them with monopoly money. 

 

And from what Rodgers said it was very much the case that he'd identified target areas and players (maybe not De Bruyne) and was fully expecting to be able to make those changes, only to be told when he got back for pre season there was no money available. 

[Richmondfox]

1 hour ago, Mee-9 said:

There are so many. 

 

I think the running down of Tielemans and Soyuncu's contracts is criminal, and these should have both been sold with money re-invested in the squad. 

 

We've thrown away £100m. 

I couldn’t imagine Top agreeing to give away free Chanel handbags in his duty free stores. How could the leadership above BR be so blind to this. The club could have made at least £30m which is better than nothing, especially as BR had frozen Soy out and Youri switching off. 

[Spudulike]

There's a lot of assumptions being made in this thread. I don't think that any of us spend enough time at Seagrave to understand the inner workings of the club. Just as an example, I don't think that Kasper was forced out but more likely a gentlemens agreement to allow him to finish has contract early to give him once last football adventure before hanging up his gloves. Same with the signing of the Southampton two. Looking in from the outside it appears disastrous but perhaps there were other reasons rather than just trying to plug gaps during an injury crisis and they were our only options (panic buys). 

 

We can all bang on about tactics/ formations/subs etc but none of us are professional football club managers (as far as I'm aware) and we just don't have enough info to call it out. We only get a glimpse on match days and that's usually enough for us to form an opinion (rightly or wrongly). However, we really don't know why some of that stuff was going on as most of it is hidden from public view. 

 

Clearly, results and performances in the last 18 months have not been at an acceptable standard. Rodgers should've gone before and that's what most fans wanted. However, he might have remained in post because King Power didn't want to cover the cost of early contract termination or just blind loyalty in the desparate hope that he turned it around. 

 

Those of us that have been around the block a few times could whiff relegation a mile off. King Power haven't been football club owners for anywhere near as long(not an excuse, just a fact). You can only hope they will recognise this when it starts to happen again and it will (it always does). 

[Shane]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

No way was Alves ready. Braybrooke was definitely approaching it. 

Fair enough.

 

In my opinion Alves was ready for a role similar to Cole Palmers at Man City. Not regularly playing for the first team, but on the bench to gain match day experience and starting in cup games.

 

 

Edited 13 April 2023 by Shane

[sm1]

Where do you start, so much can and should be learnt. For starters we can learn not to overly trust one person. Pearson had put a process together, where numerous people assessed football ability and personality, before we brought anybody. Rodgers and Congerton just bypassed that. Also people need to be held accountable for their mistakes. They took far too long to get rid of Rodgers, but Rudkin is still here. He's the one that fuched up our wage structure and gave Rodgers all his power. Top needs to take a hard look at himself and ask the question, does he really want this, or is he happier away from football, dealing with his other businesses. As soon as Rodgers started taking the piss, critiscing the budget, telling the players they weren't good enough, Top should've booted him out. Weakness seeps down from the top and before you know it, the whole club becomes weak. That's what's happened to us. The team has no backbone and players are allowed to run down contracts and make a killing. Ironically our motto is Foxes never quit, but that's all we've been doing for a long time now. 

[lcfcsnow]

1 minute ago, Shane said:

In my opinion Alves was ready for a role similar to Cole Palmers at Man City. Not regularly playing for the first team, but on the bench to gain match day experience and starting in cup games.

He certainly shouldn't have been playing in the youth cup, he was clearly above that level and ended up being deliberately injured. Who knows how that is going to affect the player he becomes now.

[Simoken]

11 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

There's a lot of assumptions being made in this thread. I don't think that any of us spend enough time at Seagrave to understand the inner workings of the club. Just as an example, I don't think that Kasper was forced out but more likely a gentlemens agreement to allow him to finish has contract early to give him once last football adventure before hanging up his gloves. Same with the signing of the Southampton two. Looking in from the outside it appears disastrous but perhaps there were other reasons rather than just trying to plug gaps during an injury crisis and they were our only options (panic buys). 

 

We can all bang on about tactics/ formations/subs etc but none of us are professional football club managers (as far as I'm aware) and we just don't have enough info to call it out. We only get a glimpse on match days and that's usually enough for us to form an opinion (rightly or wrongly). However, we really don't know why some of that stuff was going on as most of it is hidden from public view. 

 

Clearly, results and performances in the last 18 months have not been at an acceptable standard. Rodgers should've gone before and that's what most fans wanted. However, he might have remained in post because King Power didn't want to cover the cost of early contract termination or just blind loyalty in the desparate hope that he turned it around. 

 

Those of us that have been around the block a few times could whiff relegation a mile off. King Power haven't been football club owners for anywhere near as long(not an excuse, just a fact). You can only hope they will recognise this when it starts to happen again and it will (it always does). 

This whole forum is an assumption in itself.

[coolhandfox]

Success makes organisations fat and lazy. Everything is easy.

 

Remember the things that made you successful in the first place and keep doing them.

 

Talent recruitment made us successful in 15/16 and between 19/20-20/21.

 

A club of our size should be all about looking for an edge by finding marginal gains, whether by using analytics, sport science etc.

 

Don't be afraid to believe in a model that works. Being a selling club that developed and sold players and reinvested the money was okay. We didn't need to change the model.

 

 

 

Edited 13 April 2023 by coolhandfox

[Foxxed]

Don't let players run down their contracts

 

Don't freeze out players

 

Don't ignore the academy

 

Don't rush back injured players

 

Don't ignore the scouts' advice

 

Don't stubbonly play sub standard players

 

Don't force out valued staff and players

 

Don't demean the team and club

 

Or simply: Have an owner that doesn't let Rudkin and Brendan loose. Or some variation of that.

 

Edited 13 April 2023 by Foxxed

[Clever Fox]

3 hours ago, themightyfin said:

Worked OK with MON? 

It worked better with Pearson.

After the league win the club should have recognised the great structures Nigel had improved or introduced into the club.

The then should tell all incoming managers, this is our structure and it's not for changing unless you put up a very convincing argument.

We now need to get back there and bring back those values.

Though the personal will be different. Especially with recruitment and contracts.

[RoboFox]

"I didn't make any mistakes. Everyone else did"

 

- Brendan Rodgers

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Mee-9 said:

There are so many. 

 

I think the running down of Tielemans and Soyuncu's contracts is criminal, and these should have both been sold with money re-invested in the squad. 

 

We've thrown away £100m. 

You cannot force people to sign contracts, we played nice with Tielemans and Nasty with Soyuncu, neither worked. Players are running down contracts now as they are getting priced out of moves by clubs asking silly prices, it's happening with players like Rice and Kane as well, not just here.

[MancFox24]

4 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

I’m referring purely to starting talking about transfer to deflect. For me a manager should not be talking about things that don’t relate to on the pitch but maybe that’s old fashioned of me!

 

In terms of criticism of players, no issue with this except that again, often this is better done behind closed doors. Pearson for example would put himself in the firing line to take the heat off his players. I never remember Rodgers doing that. 
 

Some of the best such as SAF at Man Utd, I don’t often remember him slating his players publicly but I was quite young during his time there so maybe he was.

 

I agree with the last two paragraphs although surprised you have said that as I thought you were Rodgers in until the end?

 

You're right that he should have gone if he was not up for the challenge of managing the team as it was. To flip it though, he’s a big boy and could have walked at any point himself. But he wouldn’t do that because of the money would he so can’t have it both ways. 
 

Basically, the finances were what they were. Due to wages having pushed the limits to back him in previous seasons I should add. He want happy at not getting new signings in so took a negative mindset into the new season, meaning he underachieved with what he did have. Yet he didn’t want to lose money by walking away. That basically summarises how I see it.

Not so much Rodgers in until the end but I definitely supported him more than others. I would have been annoyed at the club if they let him go at the start of the season but that doesn't mean it was the wrong decision. And you're right that once the season started I was largely supportive throughout. I thought there was one opportunity after the Brighton away defeat where they could have got rid cus it looked like the players had stopped playing for him. Apart from that I sort of kept faith that he would pull us out of trouble and I didn't see who would be a better replacement- we'll never know for sure but there's pretty strong evidence I got that wrong.

 

Either way it doesn't change my view that the underlying issues aren't of Rodgers making. To say 'the finances were what they were' is giving a pretty big pass to those responsible.

[Gamble92]

1 hour ago, mozartfox said:

Letting Rogers and Rudders have too much control.

 

The signing of the Southampton Two. Any person at the Club that was in any where near these transfer, needs firing.  I do not think a single FT Member would have made such a obvious fuch- up.  That leads me to think that Top trusted people he thought knew what they were doing. 

 

In his position I would hunt down the decision makers here.

I keep getting told on here the Bertrand deal looked fine on paper. I'd agree if it wasnt 70-80k a week.

 

The aim with that signing was to play the "Fuchs role" and that isn't worth that much a week. Not a chance.

[inckley fox]

30 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

I keep getting told on here the Bertrand deal looked fine on paper. I'd agree if it wasnt 70-80k a week.

 

The aim with that signing was to play the "Fuchs role" and that isn't worth that much a week. Not a chance.

It looked fine to me too, but we don't judge deals on whether they looked fine to me (thank god), with my incredibly limited knowledge of the situation, at the time. By that measure we'd still be saying that the likes of Elliott and Vardy were cases of having overspent.

[LCFCJohn]

48 minutes ago, MancFox24 said:

Not so much Rodgers in until the end but I definitely supported him more than others. I would have been annoyed at the club if they let him go at the start of the season but that doesn't mean it was the wrong decision. And you're right that once the season started I was largely supportive throughout. I thought there was one opportunity after the Brighton away defeat where they could have got rid cus it looked like the players had stopped playing for him. Apart from that I sort of kept faith that he would pull us out of trouble and I didn't see who would be a better replacement- we'll never know for sure but there's pretty strong evidence I got that wrong.

 

Either way it doesn't change my view that the underlying issues aren't of Rodgers making. To say 'the finances were what they were' is giving a pretty big pass to those responsible.

Fair enough, and fair play for being open minded to admit you think you could have been wrong about that, many will not do that 

 

Not my intention regarding the statement on finances. Rodgers was the start of change but there needs to be heads roll further up for sure. More that that that was the situation come the summer/start of the season so I’m disappointed he neither chose to walk nor keep his chin up and crack on with the job in hand. You can’t change what has been (that caused the finances to be as they are) but can only look forward.

 

I do think there are signs the club have been doing this but would still like to see some changes further up if Top is to keep the club on.

[filbertway]

Our wage bill increased by nearly 80 million during Rodgers tenure. Of course though, he had absolutely nothing to do with it jumping from around £110 million to around £190 million.

 

Wanting to hold onto players and signing disrupt what is a successful model and the only way a team like ourselves can put together a quality squad.

 

4 years he's basically had carte blanche over ins and outs. If your face doesn't fit, you're cast aside, even at a loss for the club.

 

The guys a massive whopper and I feel sorry for anyone gullible enough to swallow his nonsense. 

[inckley fox]

As for lessons, for the board I'd say to be more cautious with improved contracts for staff/players alike. To be more open to lower-end offers as players move into the final two years of deals.

 

To prioritise better than they did with Seagrave, and perhaps consult players more, given the supposed complaints about a lack of intimacy there.

 

To not make signings if manager/recruitment staff aren't fully on board (re. rumours about Rodgers' dissatisfaction with Soumare, and the board's uncertainty with Vestergard). To make sure the recruitment department is headed by people who both manager and board can work with.

 

To consider a more footballing voice on the board, possibly in the DoF role. To dismantle any 'old boys clubs' that may exist, and have higher expectations of them re. long-term planning.

 

To be more alert to sustained downward trajectories, like the one we're on now which pretty much goes back two years.

 

And to drop the whole notion that build-from-the-back, keep-it-on-the-deck, possession and flair-based football is more sustainable than playing the way which brought us success in the first place (not to say that we should do a 180 turn, rather that as a club we should make sure minds are open and there are no disprovable preconceptions about what is sustainable).

 

For Rodgers, and for what little I care, I'd say that if you want to be considered for the top, top jobs, don't stay in a job which you feel is going nowhere just to hang on to your salary while simultaneously undermining your players to the extent that, even if there was a chance of success, you'll have crushed whatever confidence they might have had. The message that 'you're doing your best, but that's really just kind of crap, because we are essentially a bit crap' isn't particularly helpful. Had he looked for a way out back in July, he'd be celebrating his Chelsea pay-off instead of his (reportedly greatly reduced) Leicester pay-off by now.

[filbertway]

5 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

As for lessons, for the board I'd say to be more cautious with improved contracts for staff/players alike. To be more open to lower-end offers as players move into the final two years of deals.

 

To prioritise better than they did with Seagrave, and perhaps consult players more, given the supposed complaints about a lack of intimacy there.

 

To not make signings if manager/recruitment staff aren't fully on board (re. rumours about Rodgers' dissatisfaction with Soumare, and the board's uncertainty with Vestergard). To make sure the recruitment department is headed by people who both manager and board can work with.

 

To consider a more footballing voice on the board, possibly in the DoF role. To dismantle any 'old boys clubs' that may exist, and have higher expectations of them re. long-term planning.

 

To be more alert to sustained downward trajectories, like the one we're on now which pretty much goes back two years.

 

And to drop the whole notion that build-from-the-back, keep-it-on-the-deck, possession and flair-based football is more sustainable than playing the way which brought us success in the first place (not to say that we should do a 180 turn, rather that as a club we should make sure minds are open and there are no disprovable preconceptions about what is sustainable).

 

For Rodgers, and for what little I care, I'd say that if you want to be considered for the top, top jobs, don't stay in a job which you feel is going nowhere just to hang on to your salary while simultaneously undermining your players to the extent that, even if there was a chance of success, you'll have crushed whatever confidence they might have had. The message that 'you're doing your best, but that's really just kind of crap, because we are essentially a bit crap' isn't particularly helpful. Had he looked for a way out back in July, he'd be celebrating his Chelsea pay-off instead of his (reportedly greatly reduced) Leicester pay-off by now.

@inckley fox for DOF