The Rodgers effect on players

[murphy]

As much as Rodgers is persona non grata, it is recency bias, surely, to say that he was worse than Taylor.

 

Taylor spent relative fortunes turning O'Neill's silk purse into a sow's ear.  He sowed the seeds for a decade in the wilderness.  

 

However badly it ended with Rodgers and I do believe that he had mentally checked out when he didn't get his way with transfers but refused to walk, he did give us our highest finishes in living memory, European football, The Charity Shield and (for me) the holy grail of The FA Cup.  As much as it grated when he said it, we were over-achieving.

 

I think that the scales fell from my eyes after that horrible Forest cup game and his tenure became a slow motion car crash from then on, but to compare him unfavourably with Taylor is laughable.  Taylor couldn't manage a piss up in a proverbial and now ploughs his furrow in the sunday leagues or whatever it is.

[Guy]

As regards players under Rodgers tenure, then you have to look at present injuries too - re why Barnes and Maddison have been out injured for ages on end now too! Another thing that goes back to the time of Rodgers ridding Rennie from the club it seems! 

[Dan]

On 05/07/2023 at 09:26, CosbehFox said:

Btw (and I'll get pelters for this) I don't think it's the Rodgers effect. I think its the effect when you have a manager in situ for a continued period - football managers have a cycle of 3 to 4 years. 

I think this is largely true. What I do think was bad about Rodgers though is how many bad habits his teams have having a lasting effect. The amount of two goal leads blown and losses from ahead we've had against us instead of for was at an absolutely rank ratio and I do think these things will have an effect long run.

[Jon the Hat]

3 hours ago, murphy said:

As much as Rodgers is persona non grata, it is recency bias, surely, to say that he was worse than Taylor.

 

Taylor spent relative fortunes turning O'Neill's silk purse into a sow's ear.  He sowed the seeds for a decade in the wilderness.  

 

However badly it ended with Rodgers and I do believe that he had mentally checked out when he didn't get his way with transfers but refused to walk, he did give us our highest finishes in living memory, European football, The Charity Shield and (for me) the holy grail of The FA Cup.  As much as it grated when he said it, we were over-achieving.

 

I think that the scales fell from my eyes after that horrible Forest cup game and his tenure became a slow motion car crash from then on, but to compare him unfavourably with Taylor is laughable.  Taylor couldn't manage a piss up in a proverbial and now ploughs his furrow in the sunday leagues or whatever it is.

I don't think you can really blame him for that, MON was a very hard act to follow and he was out of his depth for sure, but the players we had were very hard to replace.  I think you can forget how fortunate we were with Heskey, Izzet and Lennon in particular.

[LCFCJohn]

6 hours ago, murphy said:

As much as Rodgers is persona non grata, it is recency bias, surely, to say that he was worse than Taylor.

 

Taylor spent relative fortunes turning O'Neill's silk purse into a sow's ear.  He sowed the seeds for a decade in the wilderness.  

 

However badly it ended with Rodgers and I do believe that he had mentally checked out when he didn't get his way with transfers but refused to walk, he did give us our highest finishes in living memory, European football, The Charity Shield and (for me) the holy grail of The FA Cup.  As much as it grated when he said it, we were over-achieving.

 

I think that the scales fell from my eyes after that horrible Forest cup game and his tenure became a slow motion car crash from then on, but to compare him unfavourably with Taylor is laughable.  Taylor couldn't manage a piss up in a proverbial and now ploughs his furrow in the sunday leagues or whatever it is.

2016 not in your living memory Murphy 

[Dan]

9 hours ago, Corky said:

Seems like another Harry Redknapp type- seen as this great man manager but go beneath the surface and it is a lot different.

 

That is what a great PR machine does for you. 

The nearest thing I can think of is Alan Pardew.

[Gazza M]

I think it says a lot about him as a man that he opted for an easy ride with Celtic again instead of backing himself for a Prem job at a smaller club or even the challenge of Leeds or Southampton. 

[Daggers]

Rodgers’ crimes run far deeper than tactical ineptitude and smug arrogance for me, far worse than his dismantling of the best collection of youthful talent we’ve ever had - he drove me to hate the club and the management that stood so resolutely behind him. The only thing Rodgers did well was to highlight the ridiculous level of fvckwittery and ignorance in KPFC. For me, this makes him the absolute worst manager in my lifetime.

Edited 16 January 2024 by Daggers

[Claudio Fannieri]

Rodgers delivered some of the best football I had ever witnessed as an LCFC and an FA Cup win I never thought I would see, so he delivered some good times, however he did this with the best and most expensively assembled squad in our clubs history, despite those amazing highs, he also single handedly oversaw a capitulation and fall from grace that is absolutely criminal and far worse than anything Taylor oversaw. 
 

The difference with Taylor was despite inheriting a decent squad, they were over performing under O’Neill and then some poor business in the transfer market meant we effectively ended up back at the level

of the collective squad.
 

However with Rodgers the squad was more than capable and to effectively down tools, sulk and disengage a large proportion of the squad and fanbase resulting in relegation was a far bigger crime than anything Taylor accomplished. 

[Jobyfox]

36 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

Rodgers delivered some of the best football I had ever witnessed as an LCFC and an FA Cup win I never thought I would see, so he delivered some good times, however he did this with the best and most expensively assembled squad in our clubs history, despite those amazing highs, he also single handedly oversaw a capitulation and fall from grace that is absolutely criminal and far worse than anything Taylor oversaw. 
 

The difference with Taylor was despite inheriting a decent squad, they were over performing under O’Neill and then some poor business in the transfer market meant we effectively ended up back at the level

of the collective squad.
 

However with Rodgers the squad was more than capable and to effectively down tools, sulk and disengage a large proportion of the squad and fanbase resulting in relegation was a far bigger crime than anything Taylor accomplished. 

When I reflect on Peter Taylor I always say that if you had brought someone with the specific, evil, intent of completely dismantling the club then they wouldn’t have done a better job. 
 

Rodgers won the FA Cup and had us playing in Europe before he presided over the most needless relegation in our history. Taylor picked up an established PL team and brought the club to the brink of extinction. We’d never have recovered from the effects of his tenure if we hadn’t been somewhat fortunate with Mandaric and Vichai rebuilding the club from the bottom. 
 

We don’t know the ultimate effect of the BRodgers meltdown. If we get promoted it might be a temporary blip, but we will see. To say it was a “bigger crime” than Taylor’s dramatic time in charge though is, in my opinion, utterly ridiculous!! 

[Pliskin]

Rodgers tenure will go down as the most bizarre in our history. 
 

In all honesty, his early success was down to the squad he inherited, it was a strong team on paper, and this made his job easier. 
 

With regards to the man himself, he is his own worst enemy. It’s clear he’s all about Rodgers, he’s got no time for anyone else, he wants to run the club his way or no way, this is something he must have picked up whilst working with Jose. 
 

There must be something in him, because he’s had some success with domestic trophies with his respective clubs, but there’s another side to him….. he’s like Senator Palpatine, appears to be all nice in the public eye, but behind the scenes he’s devising evil plans to eventually ruin football clubs. 
 

What’s different with Rodgers and Toylor is Taylor was just plain incompetent and out of his depth, Rodgers turned his back on the club because he didn’t get what he wanted, downed tools and sabotaged the team out of spite, and I think that’s the gods honest truth. 
 

I think his decline started after the FA cup, where he thought that was his ticket to a bigger job, when that didn’t come he wanted more control, when he got that but with restrictions he wasn’t happy and played the woe is me card and then just drove the club into the ground. 
 

I despise the bloke, I’ll never acknowledge his achievements because of what he did here. In my eyes, our worst ever manager.   

 

[murphy]

3 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

2016 not in your living memory Murphy 

Oh yeah 

 

Point taken 

[davieG]

27 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

somewhat fortunate with Mandaric and Vichai rebuilding the club from the bottom

Mandaric didn't rebuild us from the bottom he took us to the bottom.

[Daggers]

37 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

…if we hadn’t been somewhat fortunate with Mandaric … rebuilding the club

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…[cont. ad infinitum]

[Bert]

Rodgers biggest problem for me was that plan B was to hope plan A didn’t fail. This seemed to happen more towards the end of his reign. He was too stubborn to see it and the confidence/arrogance of planning for a top 10 finish during the World Cup break says it all. 
 

Compare this to Maresca who at the minute doesn’t seemingly have a plan B, you’ve at least got some faith that something will actually come into place. Take Millwall at home for example. How quickly did he identify that the original game plan wasn’t working? Plan A has worked 90% of the time for us this season so you can half understand not having a plan B. 
 

But for people to say Rodgers worse than Taylor? Have a day off. The bloke helped guide us to our 2nd & 3rd highest places finishes in English football, as well as delivering the much sought after FA Cup we were missing. 
 

Peter Taylor completely disregarded one of our club legends, spent silly money on players not good enough for the league below, left us in dire financial straits and massively contributed to our relegation.   

[murphy]

I agree with those that say that Rodgers ran the club into the ground and affected the most needless and criminal relegation ever, helped by the ineptitude of those above him, but I would say this.  If his success was down to the squad he inherited then why didn't Puel do it?

 

Also, if you were offered two top five finishes, European football, The Charity Shield and The FA Cup but the price you must pay is relegation, selling your best players for a pittance and a total rebuild, would you take it?  I would.  It's better than just bobbing along like Crystal Palace.  We made the era pay and that FA Cup is in the bank forever.

 

Regardless of how we feel about Rodgers'and how many suspect him of industrial sabotage, the history books will show that he was our second best manager ever.  

[honeybradger]

24 minutes ago, murphy said:

I agree with those that say that Rodgers ran the club into the ground and affected the most needless and criminal relegation ever, helped by the ineptitude of those above him, but I would say this.  If his success was down to the squad he inherited then why didn't Puel do it?

 

Also, if you were offered two top five finishes, European football, The Charity Shield and The FA Cup but the price you must pay is relegation, selling your best players for a pittance and a total rebuild, would you take it?  I would.  It's better than just bobbing along like Crystal Palace.  We made the era pay and that FA Cup is in the bank forever.

 

Regardless of how we feel about Rodgers'and how many suspect him of industrial sabotage, the history books will show that he was our second best manager ever.  

One thing that needs to be considered is that two of the key players in Rodgers's side, Tielemans and Barnes, only got a few games under Puel at the end of his tenure. Tielemans especially added a completely different dynamic to the way we played.

 

Puel was bad as well for the record (playing Demarai Gray as a CF over Jamie fing Vardy) but i dont like how people make out that Rodgers turned Puel's water into wine, give Rodgers a Maddison, Ndidi, Mendy midfield and he would have us struggling low midtable as well.

Edited 16 January 2024 by honeybradger

[Mickyblueeyes]

The Taylor/Rodgers debate. 

 

Taylor was out of his depth. Should never had managed in the PL let alone a club who had significantly punched above its weight simply due to an extrodinarily talented manager (and assistant in John Robertson) who comes around once in a lifetime. As a club at the time, we should never have been doing what we were doing. When we were promoted under O'neil and he signed Spencer Prior and Kasey Keller from Division One Milwall and Norwich! Guys like Taggart, Elliott, Izzet, Gichrist, Cottee, Sinclair etc. were very much bargain buys who if you tried to do it again you would fail 100 times. Lennon was an absolute steal who could easily have left us after one season to sign for one of the big boys. We spent the seasons under O'neil in the PL finishing top 10, winning cups and hating Erland Johnsen! To try and replace those players/that team was hard enough. To try and replace them with a inexperienced run of the mill manager who lacked the stature to rely on senior, influential players like Walsh and Cottee was always destined to fail. 

 

O'neil made successful PL careers out of a board room who had no reason being in the PL at that time. 

 

Hindsight tells you after O'neil we needed another senior, influential, experienced campaigner rather than an up and coming manager. I think at the time people like Joe Kinnear, Mike Walker, Joe Royle and I think Harry Redknapp (or was that after Taylor was sacked) were linked. None were attractive names but each had experience of recently managing in the league teams with restricted budgets and managing influential dressing rooms. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

 

Taylor for his overall job was the worst manager I can remember. There was nothing good left from his time. Not a thing. It took us 12 years to rebuild and that was with significant cash investment. The only defence I would have for Taylor is I dont think he was trying to be shit - he just was. He made catatrophic errors. 

 

Rodgers however was blessed with significant resource and a very good squad, coaching and medical team. He dismantled it and towards the end did so to prove a point. He is a horrible **** of a man who destroyed something many before him worked very hard to build. I dont think we will ever get to the top 6/cup winining team again. I think we will go up this year and very much be in a relegation fight. If we stay up, we will be a Palace sort of side at best - pushing up again will be very difficult. We wont have the PL/CL injection of cash and do not have a maverick, entreprenaurial owner like Vichai driving things and putting the right pegs in the right hole. He destroyed something great for our club by simply not trying - that is unacceptable. He, alongside others (Evans, Tielemans etc.) insulted our club and gave it no respect. Taylor may be the worst manager we have had in terms of skill. Rodgers is the worst for other, less forgivable reasons. 

 

For that, I cant stand the man nor his squad of last season. They can all continue to go **** themselves. Petty ? Yeah, I probably am but its football not real life. 

[HighPeakFox]

The telling question for me would be 'Would any PL club take a chance on BR now?'

 

The answer, I suspect, would be a very firm 'no'.

[Mickyblueeyes]

19 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

The telling question for me would be 'Would any PL club take a chance on BR now?'

 

The answer, I suspect, would be a very firm 'no'.

I actually think they would. I dont think he will ever get the top 6 knocking on his door as he did in his early days here but a mid-table PL club would very much take a chance on "great coach" Brendan. 

[TheStig]

18 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I actually think they would. I dont think he will ever get the top 6 knocking on his door as he did in his early days here but a mid-table PL club would very much take a chance on "great coach" Brendan. 

Which would then include Man Utd and Chelsea  

 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

12 hours ago, murphy said:

As much as Rodgers is persona non grata, it is recency bias, surely, to say that he was worse than Taylor.

 

Taylor spent relative fortunes turning O'Neill's silk purse into a sow's ear.  He sowed the seeds for a decade in the wilderness.  

 

However badly it ended with Rodgers and I do believe that he had mentally checked out when he didn't get his way with transfers but refused to walk, he did give us our highest finishes in living memory, European football, The Charity Shield and (for me) the holy grail of The FA Cup.  As much as it grated when he said it, we were over-achieving.

 

I think that the scales fell from my eyes after that horrible Forest cup game and his tenure became a slow motion car crash from then on, but to compare him unfavourably with Taylor is laughable.  Taylor couldn't manage a piss up in a proverbial and now ploughs his furrow in the sunday leagues or whatever it is.

I can’t believe I’m defending Peter Taylor in any sense, but at least he tried - just wasn’t good enough. If you’re right, and I suspect you might well be, and Rodgers checked out surely that is absolutely despicable and far worse.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

The Taylor/Rodgers debate. 

 

Taylor was out of his depth. Should never had managed in the PL let alone a club who had significantly punched above its weight simply due to an extrodinarily talented manager (and assistant in John Robertson) who comes around once in a lifetime. As a club at the time, we should never have been doing what we were doing. When we were promoted under O'neil and he signed Spencer Prior and Kasey Keller from Division One Milwall and Norwich! Guys like Taggart, Elliott, Izzet, Gichrist, Cottee, Sinclair etc. were very much bargain buys who if you tried to do it again you would fail 100 times. Lennon was an absolute steal who could easily have left us after one season to sign for one of the big boys. We spent the seasons under O'neil in the PL finishing top 10, winning cups and hating Erland Johnsen! To try and replace those players/that team was hard enough. To try and replace them with a inexperienced run of the mill manager who lacked the stature to rely on senior, influential players like Walsh and Cottee was always destined to fail. 

 

O'neil made successful PL careers out of a board room who had no reason being in the PL at that time. 

 

Hindsight tells you after O'neil we needed another senior, influential, experienced campaigner rather than an up and coming manager. I think at the time people like Joe Kinnear, Mike Walker, Joe Royle and I think Harry Redknapp (or was that after Taylor was sacked) were linked. None were attractive names but each had experience of recently managing in the league teams with restricted budgets and managing influential dressing rooms. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

 

Taylor for his overall job was the worst manager I can remember. There was nothing good left from his time. Not a thing. It took us 12 years to rebuild and that was with significant cash investment. The only defence I would have for Taylor is I dont think he was trying to be shit - he just was. He made catatrophic errors. 

 

Rodgers however was blessed with significant resource and a very good squad, coaching and medical team. He dismantled it and towards the end did so to prove a point. He is a horrible **** of a man who destroyed something many before him worked very hard to build. I dont think we will ever get to the top 6/cup winining team again. I think we will go up this year and very much be in a relegation fight. If we stay up, we will be a Palace sort of side at best - pushing up again will be very difficult. We wont have the PL/CL injection of cash and do not have a maverick, entreprenaurial owner like Vichai driving things and putting the right pegs in the right hole. He destroyed something great for our club by simply not trying - that is unacceptable. He, alongside others (Evans, Tielemans etc.) insulted our club and gave it no respect. Taylor may be the worst manager we have had in terms of skill. Rodgers is the worst for other, less forgivable reasons. 

 

For that, I cant stand the man nor his squad of last season. They can all continue to go **** themselves. Petty ? Yeah, I probably am but its football not real life. 

Excellent post 

[trabuch]

1 minute ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

I can’t believe I’m defending Peter Taylor in any sense, but at least he tried - just wasn’t good enough. If you’re right, and I suspect you might well be, and Rodgers checked out surely that is absolutely despicable and far worse.

This. Taylor was just incompetent - Rodgers sabotaged us thinking he was protecting his reputation.

[murphy]

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, could it be that Rodgers was trying and giving of his best but the team had reached its natural end and without the required rebuild went into terminal decline?  Add to that several consecutive windows of poor or next to no recruitment and the die was cast.

 

The FT kangaroo court judge has donned his black cap but how can we ever know?  From the outside, it certainly did appear to me that Rodgers had checked out and that is unforgivable.  From the comments he made he always appeared to be trying to get himself off the hook at the expense of the club and players, but on the other hand, such gobshitery is scarcely believable of any professional and the players would have sniffed it out instantly.

 

The irony is, that it Rodgers' had allowed himself to walk away when it became clear that the he wasn't going to get his way with the rebuild, instead of clinging to that golden contract for dear life, his stock would have been very high.  He would only have had to take a short break and wait for a big six job vacancy.  As it is, his reputation is soiled and he has slunk back to the Scottish backwaters.  My only regret is that by sacking him, the relegation that he presided over will never appear on his CV.