Vestergaard

[jmono84]

17 hours ago, Ed 1 said:

This is the bit that irks me greatly. Few saying he did the same at open training session which I find particularly distasteful as there were so many young kids wishing to meet their “heroes”. 

I seen a video of him completely making no effort to clap the fans when the rest of the players were. A grown ass man earning £70k a week, sulking towards fans who probably don’t even make half that in a year! Pathetic.

[Finnegan]

20 minutes ago, jmono84 said:

I seen a video of him completely making no effort to clap the fans when the rest of the players were. A grown ass man earning £70k a week, sulking towards fans who probably don’t even make half that in a year! Pathetic.

 

If he's read even 5% of what's said about him online then I wouldn't want owt to do with our fans either. 

 

He's probably the #1 target of completely over the top personal abuse at the club. 

 

People can't have it both ways. They can't be a complete cvnt to the guy and then slate him more when he doesn't want to play friends. 

[Xen]

52 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Apparently an unpopular opinion but I thought he was far from disastrous yesterday. Made a couple of blunders but also recovered well a few times too. 

 

Repeating what I've just said in the Souttar thread a bit, he's clearly valued for his ability to play longer out balls in to the channels so he's definitely staying and people might as well get used to that. 

 

I thought the moments he most looked a problem yesterday weren't exclusively his fault. They largely came when the protection in front of him vanished and Cov just ran straight through our midfield. 

 

This is going to keep happening for weeks until we have a settled midfield (including Ricardo) who all start to get used to what is an extremely unorthodox set of roles. They're having to learn something genuinely new and we've had almost no real match time to practice it. 

 

Lots of times yesterday Winks was caught out further up the pitch, Ricky was torn between going back to RB and holding and KDH/Ndidi were still way too far up the pitch to drop and cover Winks. Net result, literally no midfield. 

 

It isn't meant to be like that but they've got to completely re-learn some positional instincts and a new set of transitional play. It's not just the attacking that will take time to learn, it's how to defend in this shape too, especially when they're also having to learn how and when to effectively counter press on top of all that. 

 

Going to be loads of scary defensive moments for weeks yet before we settle. You can't keep blaming Vestergaard for all of them. 

 

I'm not pretending he's the second coming of Ruben Dias but he's also a guy that's had a pretty long and successful career playing international and top flight football. He IS good enough for this level but people need to show a bit of patience and get off his back or we just risk turning him in to our Harry Maguire, completely shattered confidence and a wreck. 

 

He isn't going anywhere, the manager likes him. Get used to it and get behind him. 

 

Well said.

 

This style of play is going to see us concede some shockers this season, I'm sure of it. On the whole it's going to be a massive positive and we'll definitely be controlling games more, but we're not man city where every player is top of their game and 100% on it, 100% of the time. There's going to be mistakes whilst we get used to it, or concentration slips, and it's going to paint a bad light on our defenders sometimes even when not directly their fault.

 

Thought Vestergaard did alright yesterday. Don't want him as first choice and his wages are too high for a bench option, realistically, but he's a decent passer and can hold his own in this division enough for what we need. 

 

He's definitely behind Coady when he's fit, so hopefully we can ship him (and souttar) out and bring in someone else more suitable as cover before the end of the window.

[BenTheFox]

55 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Apparently an unpopular opinion but I thought he was far from disastrous yesterday. Made a couple of blunders but also recovered well a few times too. 

 

Repeating what I've just said in the Souttar thread a bit, he's clearly valued for his ability to play longer out balls in to the channels so he's definitely staying and people might as well get used to that. 

 

I thought the moments he most looked a problem yesterday weren't exclusively his fault. They largely came when the protection in front of him vanished and Cov just ran straight through our midfield. 

 

This is going to keep happening for weeks until we have a settled midfield (including Ricardo) who all start to get used to what is an extremely unorthodox set of roles. They're having to learn something genuinely new and we've had almost no real match time to practice it. 

 

Lots of times yesterday Winks was caught out further up the pitch, Ricky was torn between going back to RB and holding and KDH/Ndidi were still way too far up the pitch to drop and cover Winks. Net result, literally no midfield. 

 

It isn't meant to be like that but they've got to completely re-learn some positional instincts and a new set of transitional play. It's not just the attacking that will take time to learn, it's how to defend in this shape too, especially when they're also having to learn how and when to effectively counter press on top of all that. 

 

Going to be loads of scary defensive moments for weeks yet before we settle. You can't keep blaming Vestergaard for all of them. 

 

I'm not pretending he's the second coming of Ruben Dias but he's also a guy that's had a pretty long and successful career playing international and top flight football. He IS good enough for this level but people need to show a bit of patience and get off his back or we just risk turning him in to our Harry Maguire, completely shattered confidence and a wreck. 

 

He isn't going anywhere, the manager likes him. Get used to it and get behind him. 

 

This is a pretty fair assessment. 

 

I don't rate him, but he wouldn't be starting for us if Coady was fit. What centre-backs could we realistically sign that are good enough on the ball to play this system and will sit on the bench? He will be hard to shift so if we have a way to make use of him then that's not a terrible outcome. 

[Finnegan]

5 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

This is a pretty fair assessment. 

 

I don't rate him, but he wouldn't be starting for us if Coady was fit. What centre-backs could we realistically sign that are good enough on the ball to play this system and will sit on the bench? He will be hard to shift so if we have a way to make use of him then that's not a terrible outcome. 

 

The other thing people need to accept is that there are certain skills we absolutely need in the team for Maresca's vision to work and Vestergaard/Coady are integral to that. 

 

You can't just chuck in Harry Souttar and expect things not to break. It's why I'm so anxious about Harry Winks injury record because there's zero cover for him (hopeful Casadei is capable) and he's another part of the plan that is completely essential in his ability to beat the press and dictate play from the "quarter back" position, if you'll forgive the Americanism. 

 

Edited 7 August 2023 by Finnegan

[goose2010]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

The other thing people need to accept is that there are certain skills we absolutely need in the team for Maresca's vision to work and Vestergaard/Coady are integral to that. 

 

You can't just chuck in Harry Souttar and expect things not to break. It's why I'm so anxious about Harry Winks injury record because there's zero cover for him (hopeful Casadei is capable) and he's another part of the plan that is completely essential in his ability to beat the process and dictate play from the "quarter back" position, if you'll forgive the Americanism. 

do you think you could play Justin in the Vestergaard role? Played CB a few times and he has a decent range of passing? 

 

 

I agree though Vestergaard wasnt that bad he wasnt great but for someone that has had limited football for 2 years i thought he was alright. 

 

[CosbehFox]

I think the bloke is utter dogshite but just check FBRef to see it is true about his passing stats. Quite progressive in possession. 

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

think you could play Justin in the Vestergaard role

 

No. Got no problem playing Justin as a "wide" CB in a three but you're never playing him in the middle that'd be nuts. 

[jmono84]

23 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

If he's read even 5% of what's said about him online then I wouldn't want owt to do with our fans either. 

 

He's probably the #1 target of completely over the top personal abuse at the club. 

 

People can't have it both ways. They can't be a complete cvnt to the guy and then slate him more when he doesn't want to play friends. 

I agree fans are OTT about him but as a pro footballer you have to be smart both on and off the pitch and not clapping fans on the open day and yesterday after we won the game is pathetic behaviour and not going to help you at all. He needs to swallow his pride and ignore fans comments about him, it’s a fickle business which he gets paid extremely handsomely for.

 

Im always willing to give anyone a chance when they play for us but not doing stuff like clapping fans which takes zero ability or effort just makes him look like a nob.

Edited 7 August 2023 by jmono84

[Viva]

29 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

If he's read even 5% of what's said about him online then I wouldn't want owt to do with our fans either. 

 

He's probably the #1 target of completely over the top personal abuse at the club. 

 

People can't have it both ways. They can't be a complete cvnt to the guy and then slate him more when he doesn't want to play friends. 

I can’t imagine many kids at the open session have given him abuse!

He needs to be big enough to get over any stick he’s had, or look in the mirror and realise that his performances have been nowhere near the required standard. 
 

If he starts playing well, then he will get the credit for it. 
 

Edited 7 August 2023 by Viva

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, jmono84 said:

I agree fans are OTT about him but as a pro footballer you have to be smart both on and off the pitch and not clapping fans on the open day and yesterday after we won the game is pathetic behaviour and not going to help you at all. He needs to swallow his pride and ignore fans comments about him, it’s a fickle business which he gets paid extremely handsomely for.

 

Im always willing to give anyone a chance when they play for us but not doing stuff like clapping fans which takes zero ability or effort just makes him look like a nob.

 

If clapping the fans takes zero effort and it's just "expected" of everyone, even mandatory, then it's a completely shallow and meaningless gesture anyway (which it is.) It's like footballers coming out and saying the support was incredible when we've all sat in silence for 90 minutes. It's absolutely redundant and meaningless platitudes. 

 

If you're judging a footballer's character based entirely on whether he plays along with this silly social norm then I'd say you're more part of the problem than he is. 

 

Nobody should expect to have to take the massive amount of personal abuse players like Vestergaard, Chilwell, Maddison, Daka, Iheanacho and countless other popular punching bags have and do and then be told to just "swallow their pride" and smile and play pretend nice for the very same willy pullers that are abusing them. 

 

Vestergaard might not be a good enough footballer for our team. I don't know, I'd say it's too early to make that call for the Championship but if you disagree that's fine, it's a subjective opinion and you're entitled to it. 

 

But you aren't entitled to make personal judgements on his character and personality based on benign and petty reasons and go unchallenged. Sorry. 

[ACF]

12 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

The other thing people need to accept is that there are certain skills we absolutely need in the team for Maresca's vision to work and Vestergaard/Coady are integral to that. 

 

You can't just chuck in Harry Souttar and expect things not to break. It's why I'm so anxious about Harry Winks injury record because there's zero cover for him (hopeful Casadei is capable) and he's another part of the plan that is completely essential in his ability to beat the press and dictate play from the "quarter back" position, if you'll forgive the Americanism. 

 

I say all of this agreeing with your assessment of his performance yesterday, and I will happily eat humble pie if I’m wrong here. I also accept I’m biased but I genuinely don’t see the problem with Souttar’s passing.

I think Vesty is generally a very good passer, and sure he’s better than Souttar at that one skill, but let’s not pretend big Harry’s a bad passer, he’s very decent with the ball for Australia. He’s arguably a better defender, he’s mobile, and then definitely better aerially than Vesty. The amount of goals the Socceroos get from corners because of Soutts is hugely valuable.
 

Faes isn’t bad with the ball either. I just think you can replace Vesty easily, and maybe it is by playing Faes centrally in the three.

 

In our system, we risk turning the ball over a lot. What Vesty offers in his passing is immediately nullified by his mobility and poor defensive work.

 

I hope he gets better, I’d rather see our player succeed than fail, I’m just not seeing why Souttar couldn’t do a role within our system well. 

[ACF]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

If clapping the fans takes zero effort and it's just "expected" of everyone, even mandatory, then it's a completely shallow and meaningless gesture anyway (which it is.) It's like footballers coming out and saying the support was incredible when we've all sat in silence for 90 minutes. It's absolutely redundant and meaningless platitudes. 

 

If you're judging a footballer's character based entirely on whether he plays along with this silly social norm then I'd say you're more part of the problem than he is. 

 

Nobody should expect to have to take the massive amount of personal abuse players like Vestergaard, Chilwell, Maddison, Daka, Iheanacho and countless other popular punching bags have and do and then be told to just "swallow their pride" and smile and play pretend nice for the very same willy pullers that are abusing them. 

 

Vestergaard might not be a good enough footballer for our team. I don't know, I'd say it's too early to make that call for the Championship but if you disagree that's fine, it's a subjective opinion and you're entitled to it. 

 

But you aren't entitled to make personal judgements on his character and personality based on benign and petty reasons and go unchallenged. Sorry. 

This is completely correct, if you’re entitled to not like a player, the player is entitled to think the fans are a bunch of twats.

[Daggers]

37 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

If he's read even 5% of what's said about him online then I wouldn't want owt to do with our fans either. 

 

Oooh, get you slipping into your northern brogue. Reet impressive. 
 

You’ll be flying your whippets at Elland Road in no time. 

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Oooh, get you slipping into your northern brogue. Reet impressive. 
 

You’ll be flying your whippets at Elland Road in no time. 

 

Owt is definitely an established part of the Leicester lexicon. Not that I'd expect some Ketrin folk to know that. 

[blaaklint]

20 minutes ago, ACF said:

I say all of this agreeing with your assessment of his performance yesterday, and I will happily eat humble pie if I’m wrong here. I also accept I’m biased but I genuinely don’t see the problem with Souttar’s passing.

I think Vesty is generally a very good passer, and sure he’s better than Souttar at that one skill, but let’s not pretend big Harry’s a bad passer, he’s very decent with the ball for Australia. He’s arguably a better defender, he’s mobile, and then definitely better aerially than Vesty. The amount of goals the Socceroos get from corners because of Soutts is hugely valuable.
 

Faes isn’t bad with the ball either. I just think you can replace Vesty easily, and maybe it is by playing Faes centrally in the three.

 

In our system, we risk turning the ball over a lot. What Vesty offers in his passing is immediately nullified by his mobility and poor defensive work.

 

I hope he gets better, I’d rather see our player succeed than fail, I’m just not seeing why Souttar couldn’t do a role within our system well. 

If you take a look at fbref, Souttar completes fewer passes, less progressively, and goes long far morr often than JV. A lot of that will be team/coach-specific ofc but there's not a lot of evidence that Harry's any better than OK on the ball.

 

If you throw in that last season, Souttar was in the bottom percentage of CBs in top 5 leagues for tackling dribbling players, that doesnt sit favourably for him either. I will concede that he is exceptionally good in the air, but I just don't think that's going to be as important to our general play tbh.

Edited 7 August 2023 by blaaklint

[ACF]

33 minutes ago, blaaklint said:

If you take a look at fbref, Souttar completes fewer passes, less progressively, and goes long far morr often than JV. A lot of that will be team/coach-specific ofc but there's not a lot of evidence that Harry's any better than OK on the ball.

 

If you throw in that last season, Souttar was in the bottom percentage of CBs in top 5 leagues for tackling dribbling players, that doesnt sit favourably for him either. I will concede that he is exceptionally good in the air, but I just don't think that's going to be as important to our general play tbh.

This is Foxestalk, why are you debating with “facts” 

[BenTheFox]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

The other thing people need to accept is that there are certain skills we absolutely need in the team for Maresca's vision to work and Vestergaard/Coady are integral to that. 

 

You can't just chuck in Harry Souttar and expect things not to break. It's why I'm so anxious about Harry Winks injury record because there's zero cover for him (hopeful Casadei is capable) and he's another part of the plan that is completely essential in his ability to beat the press and dictate play from the "quarter back" position, if you'll forgive the Americanism. 

 

Our goalkeeper exemplifies this probably better than anyone. A proven goalkeeper at this level in Daniel Iverson doesn't even make our matchday squad because he isn't capable of playing the way that Maresca will have us playing. 

 

 

 

Edited 7 August 2023 by BenTheFox

[AKCJ]

Lad can ping it about just swell.

 

But if you've got the pace of a pensioner and you're playing in a high line you're always going to get caught out.

 

He isn't fit for this style of play.

[Devonfox1884]

1 hour ago, jmono84 said:

I seen a video of him completely making no effort to clap the fans when the rest of the players were. A grown ass man earning £70k a week, sulking towards fans who probably don’t even make half that in a year! Pathetic.

There are two sides to everything - I can say for a fact that he spent at least half an hour signing autographs in the car park after the game and was being friendly and kind towards all there, especially the kids.

 

Maybe he didn’t feel well at full time, maybe he needed the loo, who knows? Maybe he was being a twat. We can’t say for sure. 
 

Just thought that’d add a bit of balance here. 

[moore_94]

6 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Lad can ping it about just swell.

 

But if you've got the pace of a pensioner and you're playing in a high line you're always going to get caught out.

 

He isn't fit for this style of play.

Seeing as we potentially have a keeper not that strong from corners again, would be nice to have a big tall centre back that can use his height effectively to win headers as well…

 

A shame Vestergaard can’t even do that

Edited 7 August 2023 by moore_94

[AKCJ]

Just now, moore_94 said:

Seeing as we potentially have a keeper not that strong from corners again, would be nice to have a big tall centre back that can use his height effectively to win headers as well…

Then play Souttar.

 

Vestergaard isn't even good in the air.

[moore_94]

Just now, AKCJ said:

Then play Souttar.

 

Vestergaard isn't even good in the air.

Oh my bad might have come across wrong haha

 

I was agreeing with you that Vestergaard for all good his passing is doesn’t help us any other way

 

Guy is dogshit at winning headers

[Iran]

I'm quite loving the resurrection of Vestergaard under Enzo Maresca. 

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Owt is definitely an established part of the Leicester lexicon. Not that I'd expect some Ketrin folk to know that. 

Owt - or owt owt?