The Enzo Thread

[Claridge]

Teams have sussed us out, they no longer come at us when we stroll about at the back and it feels like we do it as he is too stubborn to change. If he is as good as thinks he is, then surely he has a plan B.

Play like this in the prem if we get there and it will be a hammering most weeks. Yes we are top, but with the squad we have we should be.

 

[winteriscoming]

1 hour ago, PaulW said:

He's been given no budget at all, and the 15 or so ex-premier league players weren't good enough under the previous manager to stay in that league.  He wasn't given a magic wand.

Nonsense. 
Winks, Coady, Mads, Doyle, Mavidi, Fatawo and Akgun all came in the summer. 
Winks and Coady would walk into a lower league premiership side. Costing just under 20m combined. 
Add to that Ndidi, Kdh, Vardy, Ricardo, Justin, Nacho, and Faes. 
If that’s not a magic wand I don’t know what is. 

[Chelmofox]

Just now, winteriscoming said:

Nonsense. 
Winks, Coady, Mads, Doyle, Mavidi, Fatawo and Akgun all came in the summer. 
Winks and Coady would walk into a lower league premiership side. Costing just under 20m combined. 
Add to that Ndidi, Kdh, Vardy, Ricardo, Justin, Nacho, and Faes. 
If that’s not a magic wand I don’t know what is. 

I give you Winks and Coady, although Winks' career had faltered (at the time the transfer was panned on here) and Coady had fallen out of favour at one of the worst Premier League clubs.  These weren't 2 PL titans.

 

Doyle, Mads, Mavididi, Fatawu and Akgun all had NO PL credentials (i say PL because that's the stick being thrown at Enzo here). They are currently at their level, and some have the potential to become PL players, with 2 of those (Mads and Fatawu) having the potential to be good PL players.

 

Ndidi had been terrible (i mean, horrible) for nearly 2 years, KDH is constantly reminded by the fans he is one footed and the Championship is his level, Vardy is Vardy but fell off a cliff in the PL last season, Riccy P and JJ are injury nightmares if not managed well, Nacho is the most inconsistent player i've seen and Faes is a bomb scare.

 

Ndidi improved massively in the new role Enzo gave him (would another manager have done this or just left him in that defensive role?), and the latest injury aside Riccy P has played more football this season than i can remember.  Enzo had done some great work to improve a lot of these players - certainly not a magic wand to make it work.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

For all the stick Neil Warnock gets on here and elsewhere, he certainly knew how to get sides promoted with far fewer talented players. I am not suggesting for one minute he is a comparable footballing coach to Enzo, obviously not. But Colin could really motivate lesser players and was pragmatic in his understanding of what it takes in the Championship, which is often ugly.

 

Don't know necessarily about Enzo's motivational talents, but he appears to lack pragmatism when it's crucially needed, like now. Idealism is fine if you're Man City talent. I know he's still learning. Let's hope he's taken enough on board about this division to steer us through the next 9 games successfully. 

[Safestandingfox]

2 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

For all the stick Neil Warnock gets on here and elsewhere, he certainly knew how to get sides promoted with far fewer talented players. I am not suggesting for one minute he is a comparable footballing coach to Enzo, obviously not. But Colin could really motivate lesser players and was pragmatic in his understanding of what it takes in the Championship, which is often ugly.

 

Don't know necessarily about Enzo's motivational talents, but he appears to lack pragmatism when it's crucially needed, like now. Idealism is fine if you're Man City talent. I know he's still learning. Let's hope he's taken enough on board about this division to steer us through the next 9 games successfully. 

If the yard stick to measure Enzo with is the likes of Neil Warnock, he's never going to succeed in winning our fans over, deary me 

[winteriscoming]

1 minute ago, Chelmofox said:

I give you Winks and Coady, although Winks' career had faltered (at the time the transfer was panned on here) and Coady had fallen out of favour at one of the worst Premier League clubs.  These weren't 2 PL titans.

 

Doyle, Mads, Mavididi, Fatawu and Akgun all had NO PL credentials (i say PL because that's the stick being thrown at Enzo here). They are currently at their level, and some have the potential to become PL players, with 2 of those (Mads and Fatawu) having the potential to be good PL players.

 

Ndidi had been terrible (i mean, horrible) for nearly 2 years, KDH is constantly reminded by the fans he is one footed and the Championship is his level, Vardy is Vardy but fell off a cliff in the PL last season, Riccy P and JJ are injury nightmares if not managed well, Nacho is the most inconsistent player i've seen and Faes is a bomb scare.

 

Ndidi improved massively in the new role Enzo gave him (would another manager have done this or just left him in that defensive role?), and the latest injury aside Riccy P has played more football this season than i can remember.  Enzo had done some great work to improve a lot of these players - certainly not a magic wand to make it work.

All I’m saying is it’s made out that Enzo had no budget in the summer. Clearly he did. Obviously Coady and Winks aren’t pl titans but there more than capable in the championship. As should be the others I’ve mentioned. Doyle played regularly for Cov last season. This mindset that he’s done an incredible job with limited resources is imo completely wrong. 

[Chelmofox]

Just now, winteriscoming said:

All I’m saying is it’s made out that Enzo had no budget in the summer. Clearly he did. Obviously Coady and Winks aren’t pl titans but there more than capable in the championship. As should be the others I’ve mentioned. Doyle played regularly for Cov last season. This mindset that he’s done an incredible job with limited resources is imo completely wrong. 

He inherited a massively dysfunctional squad which still includes a number of players running contracts down. 

[winteriscoming]

2 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

He inherited a massively dysfunctional squad which still includes a number of players running contracts down. 

Still a massive squad that should be more than capable in this division. There’s enough players who’ve played in this division to see us over the line for promotion. 

[Guppys Love Child]

5 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

He inherited a massively dysfunctional squad which still includes a number of players running contracts down. 

I agree.. but it didn't seem to hinder him (or us as a team) for the first 25+ games of the season when we where romping it and the "HMS Pi55 the league" was being branded about.   

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

14 minutes ago, Safestandingfox said:

If the yard stick to measure Enzo with is the likes of Neil Warnock, he's never going to succeed in winning our fans over, deary me 

Can you read and do critical thinking? Or do you just see the odd word and talk shit.?

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

21 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

For all the stick Neil Warnock gets on here and elsewhere, he certainly knew how to get sides promoted with far fewer talented players. I am not suggesting for one minute he is a comparable footballing coach to Enzo, obviously not. But Colin could really motivate lesser players and was pragmatic in his understanding of what it takes in the Championship, which is often ugly.

 

Don't know necessarily about Enzo's motivational talents, but he appears to lack pragmatism when it's crucially needed, like now. Idealism is fine if you're Man City talent. I know he's still learning. Let's hope he's taken enough on board about this division to steer us through the next 9 games successfully. 

Good see the usual brainless responses on here. My point is not comparing Enzo with Warnock in terms of coaching ability, because that is clearly not the case by a huge way, but that Enzo could do with a dose of pragmatism for this division when it's needed, especially now sides seem to have sussed his/our style. 

[Chelmofox]

18 minutes ago, Guppys Love Child said:

I agree.. but it didn't seem to hinder him (or us as a team) for the first 25+ games of the season when we where romping it and the "HMS Pi55 the league" was being branded about.   

Because he did a good job? The whole Pi55 the league thing was being done on here. Enzo has always been pretty pragmatic about how hard this league is.

 

22 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

Still a massive squad that should be more than capable in this division. There’s enough players who’ve played in this division to see us over the line for promotion. 

That wasn't the original stick being thrown at Enzo. The claim was that he had been 'given' 15 PL players. He hasn't.

[dmayne7]

17 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

He's obviously a really principled man and that has to be respected, but right now we face a very perilous situation off the pitch and a worrying one on the pitch. 
This is one of the most important seasons in our recent history and if we bottle this we could be in massive trouble, potentially facing points penalties or financial ruin. 
With that in mind it's frustrating just how stubborn Enzo is being, it's clear to anyone watching that we don't have the players to play the way he wants at the level required, it has worked in some games this season where we've played really well, but there have been far too many poor performances this season. 
We really cannot afford to mess this up, and yet here we have a manager utterly refusing to adapt his system to fit the squad he has to extract the best performance. Not only that, teams have adapted to us because they have worked out that under pressure we crumble, and they are exploiting that. 
It will be unforgivable if Enzo puts his philosophy before the future of the club and we fail. I have a feeling he will be off in summer, his system needs investment that we simply cannot give him. If he is not going to be pragmatic then we need someone else who will. 

. I thought that until he decided to give Hamza the armband, straight after being charged for drink driving (yet another black mark on his record)? Realise he probably didn't have the luxury of dropping him but that was such a disappointing message, which is a real shame since it had probably been his biggest selling point; what he was doing to the culture of the club. Even Brenda dropped players for being complete tools which says a lot.

[winteriscoming]

33 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

 

That wasn't the original stick being thrown at Enzo. The claim was that he had been 'given' 15 PL players. He hasn't.

The original stick was that he’d been given no budget at all. Which is completely wrong when he has. 

[kingfox]

11 hours ago, kingfox said:

Enzo has his faults, personally so far I think he’s a very one dimensional manager.

 

But in terms of his philosophy and the style he plays, I’d seriously be questioning whether our squad is technical enough for his style, because right now I don’t think it is. 
 

We have a solid core of Hermansen - Vestergaard - Winks, those three are absolutely vital to the way we play. 
 

The players around those three all have their limitations. 
 

Faes can be an absolute bombscare at times. He really needs to cut out the occasional rashness from his game, it’s holding him back from becoming a pretty good defender. James Justin has gone way downhill. Doyle has been a bit hit and miss imo, while he might not even be here next season. 
 

He’s converted both Ricardo & Ndidi into new roles, both have adapted well this season, but are they the long term solution to their current positions, I have my doubts. 
 

KDH statistically has been our most creative player, but would you class him as a highly technical midfielder, probably not. We saw in the Premier League that he has certain limitations. 
 

Mavididi & Fatawu both blow hot & cold, personally I don’t see them as regular starting wingers should we get promoted. 
 

Then you come to the strikers, where I’m still not sure who’s better in a Maresca type system. 
 

If Maresca is still here next season, more changes are needed to make his philosophy properly flourish.

Adding onto this.

 

With Maresca’s identity having similarities to Guardiola & De Zerbi, if the idea is to model those two going forward, our midfield simply has to be more technical. 
 

As others have alluded to, KDH & Ndidi as our two 8’s isn’t really a sustainable solution, they aren’t technical enough and don’t keep the ball well enough, that shows when it comes to their underlying passing statistics.

 

I look at the midfield and I feel it needs someone in the mould of Pascal Gross, in the summer(Should Maresca still be here) we need to find our version of him. 

[adejo92]

We've made such hard work out of this league, suprised anyone still wants him here next year.

 

End up throwing away a 1 horse race, Leicester Hotspur

[MPH]

7 hours ago, honeybradger said:

We're in midtable form, if Enzo cant improve on that with the squad we have then it is his fault. A run of poor form is not the end of the world but he does need to turn it around soon.

 

it appears to me that the squad is tired and in need of a rest. Maybe the international break will help.. we NEEDED new players in January .

 

our last two games have been a win and a draw away from home to the 6th placed team. The 2-2 isn’t a disaster..

[martyn]

Maresca has done a very good job. The circumstances in which he took over were difficult and to have established an identity and get us winning immediately is massive credit to him, because that isn't easy.

 

Where he now needs to show something, and this is my major doubt with him, is improved in game management and adaptability. I'm not necessarily an advocate of needing "plan b", which for many is just synonymous with going direct, but instead making tactical switches which don't just involve pushing Ricardo higher up the pitch, and using subs to freshen things up, when the tide of the game is obvious. Even if you don't trust the quality on the bench, there is no way the majority of other managers keep Mavididi on yesterday, for example.

 

Having said that, we can't on one hand lament the board for not strengthening in January whilst with the other castigate Maresca for seeing performance levels decrease. If we could have freshened things up a bit in January, it would have really helped us. Instead we've had to flog key players into the ground (Winks, KDH) and wonder why we don't look as sharp.

 

Lastly, the quality of the squad is being overplayed by some here. We shouldn't conflate "played in the premier league" with current premier league quality. We do have sufficient quality to get promoted, but the comments I see suggesting "anyone could have got us promoted" are total nonsense. History is littered with clubs like ours getting relegated and taking years to come back. Seeing names like Ndidi (hopeless for 2 years) being used in lists of players to prove we've got a "premier league" squad as a stick to beat Maresca with is an absolute joke, given how he has been reinvented under Maresca.

 

We've now got a bit of time to regroup, get players fit and go again for a massive 9 game mini season. Then we can judge him a bit more.

[Mickyblueeyes]

The style is difficult to implement and has been for virtually every manager who plays it or part of it. Those who are patient (which is difficult in this day and age) benefit long term once it has. 
 

Man City, Arsenal, Brighton etc. all took time. Some with significant investment. They are all benefiting now. 
 

Enzo has us top, with an unstable board and a squad far from perfect. Getting us promoted is his task this year and it’s for the board to help him further develop the squad. 
 

I can’t personally criticise him because I think he’s done significantly well with a squad of inconsistent players many who suffer from confidence issues. Good players yes but by no means superb even at this level. They lack many qualities for that. I’ll say it again, Enzo is the best thing at this club currently and we will be better for it the longer he is here. 

[Chrysalis]

2 hours ago, Claridge said:

Teams have sussed us out, they no longer come at us when we stroll about at the back and it feels like we do it as he is too stubborn to change. If he is as good as thinks he is, then surely he has a plan B.

Play like this in the prem if we get there and it will be a hammering most weeks. Yes we are top, but with the squad we have we should be.

 

Hull kept coming at us when we were trying to piss around at the back, and often nicked the ball of us, and scored a goal from one of the mistakes.

 

It seems we want one singe player to approach meekly, then pass round him with the man advantage, but now teams if they press as a unit we cant handle it, in the Hull game we looked so shaky trying to clear it around hull players.  We have people talking about Vesty's pace. but the far bigger danger seems to be us passing to the other team or our defenders getting the ball robbed of them whilst dithering.

[Kinowe Soorie]

I know this is the Enzo thread, but Rodgers is the one that should be getting some grief, his terrible signings are the cause of a lot of our woes. Money wasted on sub standard players that we have been lumbered with on long contracts.

Enzo is doing the best he can, yes he can be frustrating how inflexible the side can be at times, he just needs to get us up by hook or crook, and go again next season, hopefully in the Prem!!

[Guppys Love Child]

1 hour ago, Chelmofox said:

Because he did a good job? The whole Pi55 the league thing was being done on here. Enzo has always been pretty pragmatic about how hard this league is.

 

That wasn't the original stick being thrown at Enzo. The claim was that he had been 'given' 15 PL players. He hasn't.

I whole heartedly agree my friend,

He did do a good job, our league position was / is testermony to that and also the HMS was a forum reaction to the events happening at the time. 

 

My point is a lot of the good stuff continued to happen and grow until recently and all after the close of the transfer window and he knew what he had to work with..and as I said with that knon resource he's done very well.   But now something has recently changed and my assumption is we have slowly been found out so some degree. 

 But I don't see Enzo and his  EnzoBall philosophy changing...and this frightens and frutrate me.

[Flappit]

3 hours ago, Nolucklcfc said:

Do you think it’s only just now that teams have figured out a way to play against us? It’s not. Yes you can get chances against us and be successful. Any team can beat anyone in this league, we’ve seen it all season. What’s happening at the moment is confidence levels have dropped, we’ve missed big chances and we look leggy. Whether outside noise is responsible we won’t know but after the international break we will hopefully have Ricardo back and the players will have had a rest. Not to mention how absolutely horrendous the officiating has been as well. The style of football isn’t my cup of team is I’m brutally honest but it’s been effective all season. We can just give up on it now. 

Aren't the other teams playing the same amount of games as us then? How come they're not tired and leggy? 

 

We've always missed big chances throughout the season, not just now, and teams now know to pack the middle and let us use the wings as all we do is drift aimless balls over that get easily cleared! 

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Good see the usual brainless responses on here. My point is not comparing Enzo with Warnock in terms of coaching ability, because that is clearly not the case by a huge way, but that Enzo could do with a dose of pragmatism for this division when it's needed, especially now sides seem to have sussed his/our style. 

Don’t worry about it, the phrase ‘football snobbery’ springs to mind.

[CrispinLA in Texas]

2 hours ago, dmayne7 said:

. I thought that until he decided to give Hamza the armband, straight after being charged for drink driving (yet another black mark on his record)? Realise he probably didn't have the luxury of dropping him but that was such a disappointing message, which is a real shame since it had probably been his biggest selling point; what he was doing to the culture of the club. Even Brenda dropped players for being complete tools which says a lot.

Giving Hamza the armband two days after his court appearance must have p*used off some of the better players in the team. 

He should have given it to Winks who seems to have a better professional attitude as seen last year when either it was Mavididi or Fatawu who after scoring while in celebrating mood tried to jump over the advertising hoarding where the opposition supporters were seated Winks sensibly pulled them back